152 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

shnig_1 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

should i change it then? I honestly will if i can get a better sounding title

It's just my opinion. If you were talking to someone who works at Bioware, that's one thing. But you're talking to other BSN members. Why not just say "Let's talk about difficulty" or "DA3's difficulty"? Who are you trying to impress with your thread titles?

...so you ARE saying the thread titles are impressive?

Mission Accomplished. 

Swing and a miss.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 05 février 2013 - 12:46 .

[Fast Jimmy]

shnig_1 wrote...

themikefest wrote...


As someone else posted, when playing on casual just go slow and use guide books.

I guess people can, but im thinking about someone like my friend, who is the casual of casuals. He doesnt want to bog himself down with learning to many tactics and weaknesses for each enemy. I get that it is a large part of the experience, but an easier difficulty setting or maybe just more of a tutoral explaining most of the essential game mechanics will go a long way. I know i had no idea what most of the numbers in the menus meant, and i had no clue what those "physical resistance check/mental resistance check" and all that meant until well toward the end of myfirst play through 

I'm okay with a narrative difficulty.

But I'm MORE okay with a better tutorial/explanation. There is so much to these games that has so many layers, but which are either left for the player to figure out or something only the more experienced gamers would be motivated to use.

Tutorials which teach a player to shoot a gun and throw a grenade are in nearly every game, but a game with a complex AI scripting system, equipment with stacked statiscs, with specific build types and variations, etc. ...that is just up for a gamer to figure out? Seems bonkers to me.

Bioware should try to do a better job of not necessarily simifying their games, but explaining the details to the Ayer. 

[Sjpelke]

@Fast Jimmy

Am afraid that simplifying their games is what DA2's course has proven in terms of complexity of the AI scripting system. Button smashing seems to become the trend. If you set your abbilities that's almost all you have to do.

[humes spork]

EntropicAngel wrote...

...And I'd say that I think DA:O should have had a much, much better tutorial in a sense. Same for DA ][. Something that goes into the tactic system in some depth, with the option of greater depth...

Or, make preset tactics and auto-leveling not suck. That would go a pretty long way towards making the game easier for new or casual players.

It's pretty ridiculous that Wynne in DA:O, for example, when auto-leveled ends up an extremely subpar support character compared to what a knowledgeable player could do, and that tactics presets do not a good healer or buffer make. Especially in light that making a decent AI healer alone requires 8-9 tactics slots, and you're left with barely a handful beyond that for sustained abilities (which can require 2-3 slots for proper use apiece), buffing and/or debuffing.

Modifié par humes spork, 05 février 2013 - 02:31 .

[xAmilli0n]

shnig_1 wrote...

Do you guys think it is an insult for the team to add a narrative difficulty similar to Mass Effect?

A definite NO.

When I want a challenge I crank my game up to the highest difficulty and do it.  But when I want to just coast through and relive the story, narrative or casual difficulty it is.

Its a great feature that I'm glad more games are taking.

[nightscrawl]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'm okay with a narrative difficulty.

But I'm MORE okay with a better tutorial/explanation. There is so much to these games that has so many layers, but which are either left for the player to figure out or something only the more experienced gamers would be motivated to use.

Tutorials which teach a player to shoot a gun and throw a grenade are in nearly every game, but a game with a complex AI scripting system, equipment with stacked statiscs, with specific build types and variations, etc. ...that is just up for a gamer to figure out? Seems bonkers to me.

Bioware should try to do a better job of not necessarily simifying their games, but explaining the details to the Ayer.

100% agree.

If they want to add a narrative mode, that is their prerogative. I'm not one to say that it will "destroy the RPG experience" or think that it is the death knell for games as we know them.

However, I don't think the solution is to offer a mode that completely eliminates a core aspect of the game: the combat. To me, that only does the player a greater disservice because it does not HELP them, but plays on their weakness. I strongly believe that people can get better and are more comfortable with games and combat if they are given time, eased into it, and taught in a correct manner - that is, as a human who is capable of learning, and not as a moron who should, obviously, know to line of sight enemies behind a wall, or whatever other learned behavior gamers take for granted.

Not all games or game companies will be interested in offering a narrative mode, so the inclusion of one does not help the player learn to be comfortable with combat and give them a skill set that they can also use in other games; further games in the same series, and other games by the same company. Having a good, thorough tutorial mode is a good investment because you are more likely to bring in new players and keep them.

[SafetyShattered]

I don't really mind it. I mean it doesn't bother me if they want include it. I probably won't play on it but I understand that some people, like your friend, would. So if they want to include it it's fine with me.

[AshenShug4r]

Reidbynature wrote...

AshenShug4r wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

As someone who despises the combat in Dragon Age as repetitive filler, I say a narrative mode would improve the games.

Wouldn't it also severely reduce the length of the game?

Why would that be a bad thing?  Is time for time's sake a good thing?  Some people would probably just want to experience the story and not dwell on the combat which doesn't interest them.  If the extra time is solely spent on the content they have no interest in, then what's the point?

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would pay full price for basically half a game.

[Jeffonl1]

You know, I'm glad this topic can be discussed now - it wasn't so long ago that this very suggestion that narrative could trump combat, caused a true explosion of insanity....

[XX-Pyro]

AshenShug4r wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

AshenShug4r wrote...

MichaelStuart wrote...

As someone who despises the combat in Dragon Age as repetitive filler, I say a narrative mode would improve the games.

Wouldn't it also severely reduce the length of the game?

Why would that be a bad thing?  Is time for time's sake a good thing?  Some people would probably just want to experience the story and not dwell on the combat which doesn't interest them.  If the extra time is solely spent on the content they have no interest in, then what's the point?

For the life of me I can't understand why someone would pay full price for basically half a game.

Because the value of a game is not made up of how many 20 man mobs you can beat down every other corner of the map. That's not what I'm paying for, nor does it add anything to the game. I'd be paying for the same game (either DAO or Origins) if it was just boss battles and bigger mobs that occured at 1/4 or 1/6 the rate, in my opinion. 

[Fast Jimmy]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

shnig_1 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

should i change it then? I honestly will if i can get a better sounding title

It's just my opinion. If you were talking to someone who works at Bioware, that's one thing. But you're talking to other BSN members. Why not just say "Let's talk about difficulty" or "DA3's difficulty"? Who are you trying to impress with your thread titles?

...so you ARE saying the thread titles are impressive?

Mission Accomplished. 

Swing and a miss.

As the originator of that thread title (and its correlating format), I'm happy to point out that, despite 7 knock off threads using it (compared to my authentic 10), I'm still the only one who has used correct grammar in my title.

I mean... come on, BSN. 7/7 in bad grammar syntax thread names? Poor showing.

[XX-Pyro]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

shnig_1 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

should i change it then? I honestly will if i can get a better sounding title

It's just my opinion. If you were talking to someone who works at Bioware, that's one thing. But you're talking to other BSN members. Why not just say "Let's talk about difficulty" or "DA3's difficulty"? Who are you trying to impress with your thread titles?

...so you ARE saying the thread titles are impressive?

Mission Accomplished. 

Swing and a miss.

As the originator of that thread title (and its correlating format), I'm happy to point out that, despite 7 knock off threads using it (compared to my authentic 10), I'm still the only one who has used correct grammar in my title.

I mean... come on, BSN. 7/7 in bad grammar syntax thread names? Poor showing.

You capitalize every letter. I guess that's 17/17 with bad grammar.

[Conduit0]

I certainly wouldn't be against them adding a super easy/story mode like they had in ME3, I think making games as accessible to as many people as possible is something any developer should strive for when not making a niche game.
I also wouldn't mind if they added an RPG super newb tutorial, as long as they kept it optional so that veterans who know which end of the digital sword goes in the other guy, can skip it.

Modifié par Conduit0, 05 février 2013 - 04:18 .

[Vaeliorin]

If we're going to talk difficulty, I'll say that I'm fine if they add a super easy difficulty for people who want it as long as they add in an actual super hard difficulty as well. Despite all Bioware's claims pre-release about how hard Nightmare was in DA and DA2, they both were pretty simple for me and people of my ilk. I'd like something on the level of XCOM: EU Impossible difficulty, where you really have to know what you're doing and have a bit of luck if you're going to win (and you'll still have people going down pretty regularly.)

[imbs]

I hate this forum. I clicked on this thread thinking "finally, someone else who is not satisfied with the "nightmare" difficulties of these games. Instead I got ppl whining about the lowest difficulty not being easy enough. I honestly would have sworn that no one even played that mode before clicking on this thread..... I don't actually know how you die in those modes. You play with a blindfold or what?

[Fiddzz]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

The first few I was like "sure lets talk" at about 9+ I was "ok this is getting pretty insulting" now i'm in the 'running gag' mood with them

--- On topic

I like the idea of a narrative difficulty.  People play games for different reasons, story, combat, a challange, exploring, adventure, lore, etc etc.  So why make a barrier of, ok you enjoy our story but you must also master these 15 mechanics or your doomed.  Doesn't make sense to me.

Personally some games I play for the extreme challange (dark souls) and others I crank down the difficulty and just become a content tourist (Most FPS's [not because i'm bad at them, but I just dont have time to play every game in my backlog, and I want to see the sweet set peice moments that those games offer me)]

[imbs]

Blair Brown wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

The first few I was like "sure lets talk" at about 9+ I was "ok this is getting pretty insulting" now i'm in the 'running gag' mood with them

--- On topic

I like the idea of a narrative difficulty.  People play games for different reasons, story, combat, a challange, exploring, adventure, lore, etc etc.  So why make a barrier of, ok you enjoy our story but you must also master these 15 mechanics or your doomed.  Doesn't make sense to me.

Personally some games I play for the extreme challange (dark souls) and others I crank down the difficulty and just become a content tourist (Most FPS's [not because i'm bad at them, but I just dont have time to play every game in my backlog, and I want to see the sweet set peice moments that those games offer me)]

But if you want a fantastic lore story, there are amazing books and the like that you can read. Books that do foreshadowing, red herrings, storytelling itself and all that good stuff far better than any video game ever will. For amazing set pieces there are movies around with stunning visuals that will dwarf any present day fps set piece and then some. If one wants no challenge at all why play video games in the first place?

[Fiddzz]

imbs wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

The first few I was like "sure lets talk" at about 9+ I was "ok this is getting pretty insulting" now i'm in the 'running gag' mood with them

--- On topic

I like the idea of a narrative difficulty.  People play games for different reasons, story, combat, a challange, exploring, adventure, lore, etc etc.  So why make a barrier of, ok you enjoy our story but you must also master these 15 mechanics or your doomed.  Doesn't make sense to me.

Personally some games I play for the extreme challange (dark souls) and others I crank down the difficulty and just become a content tourist (Most FPS's [not because i'm bad at them, but I just dont have time to play every game in my backlog, and I want to see the sweet set peice moments that those games offer me)]

But if you want a fantastic lore story, there are amazing books and the like that you can read. Books that do foreshadowing, red herrings, storytelling itself and all that good stuff far better than any video game ever will. For amazing set pieces there are movies around with stunning visuals that will dwarf any present day fps set piece and then some. If one wants no challenge at all why play video games in the first place?

....answered that in my original post.  People play games for a multitude of different reasons, the same person can even play different types of games for different reasons.  "Challenge" does not have to be directly linked to the other reasons.

YOU might play games for a challenge, that does not mean others do.

[imbs]

Blair Brown wrote...

imbs wrote...

Blair Brown wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

The first few I was like "sure lets talk" at about 9+ I was "ok this is getting pretty insulting" now i'm in the 'running gag' mood with them

--- On topic

I like the idea of a narrative difficulty.  People play games for different reasons, story, combat, a challange, exploring, adventure, lore, etc etc.  So why make a barrier of, ok you enjoy our story but you must also master these 15 mechanics or your doomed.  Doesn't make sense to me.

Personally some games I play for the extreme challange (dark souls) and others I crank down the difficulty and just become a content tourist (Most FPS's [not because i'm bad at them, but I just dont have time to play every game in my backlog, and I want to see the sweet set peice moments that those games offer me)]

But if you want a fantastic lore story, there are amazing books and the like that you can read. Books that do foreshadowing, red herrings, storytelling itself and all that good stuff far better than any video game ever will. For amazing set pieces there are movies around with stunning visuals that will dwarf any present day fps set piece and then some. If one wants no challenge at all why play video games in the first place?

....answered that in my original post.  People play games for a multitude of different reasons, the same person can even play different types of games for different reasons.  "Challenge" does not have to be directly linked to the other reasons.

YOU might play games for a challenge, that does not mean others do.

.... Those reasons you have are poor hence the entire point of my post; IF you want stories; books. If you want amazing set pieces; movies. It's so very simple. Why restrict yourself to a media when your wants are fulfilled far more satisfyingly so by more appropriate medias?

If you want a mixture of all 3 that would be understandable... but then turning the game down to baby mode makes no sense. If you want a mixture of story, visuals then movies fulfill that want better even still. Only thing i can come up with is the roleplay elements... but even then books usually do that better, and even if you can't get the same thing there is also visual novels. Whatever though.

[Fiddzz]

What I don't think you are understanding is this;
You are making a broad sweeping judgement that people who don't want a "challenging gaming experience" should consume other forms of media.  I don't like the idea of restricting people from enjoying our games based on difficulty.
I could again state that everyone plays games for a multitude of different reasons, but that seems to just be falling on deaf ears. By your logic if people don't play games for the same reasons as you, apparently there is no point to playing them at all.

[Allan Schumacher]

.... Those reasons you have are poor hence the entire point of my post; IF you want stories; books. If you want amazing set pieces; movies. It's so very simple. Why restrict yourself to a media when your wants are fulfilled far more satisfyingly so by more appropriate medias?

Indeed, why restrict ourselves to one type of media. Why must the amazing set pieces be in movies? Why must the good stories be in books?

I prefer my entertainment to be interactive. The feeling of driving the action and being a part, and influencing the direction, of the action is part of what I find so appealing about video games. I like a good movie, but it's a passive experience.


EDIT: I have no issues with titles like this.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 05 février 2013 - 07:44 .

[HiroVoid]

I'm fine with it as long as it doesn't mean we don't get encounters that differ based on if they win or lose (such as Ser Cauthrien), and certain items are limited as rewards to higher difficulties. In all honesty though, I don't get how Narrative works, but I don't see how it would differ much from casual in that you essentially button mash, bother to level up your character, and I suppose put on new equipment every now and then. I know a friend who simply used a kill switch for Dragon Age 2 though to skip all the combat.

[imbs]

Blair Brown wrote...

What I don't think you are understanding is this;
You are making a broad sweeping judgement that people who don't want a "challenging gaming experience" should consume other forms of media.  I don't like the idea of restricting people from enjoying our games based on difficulty. I could again state that everyone plays games for a multitude of  different reasons, but that seems to just be falling on deaf ears. By  your logic if people don't play games for the same reasons as you, apparently there is no point to playing them at all.

Oh I understand why you as a company do the difficulties thing, I just don'tget the people who prefer ridiculously easy games when there are such fantastic medias around to get the other things from. I like having good stories in games, hell one of my game defining moments from when I was younger was finding out I wasLord Reven (Raven? I dont remember it's been years n years) in Kotor. But to have zero challenge at all ? Just seems anti-video game to me.

I also get that people don't like playing games for the same reason I do, I just don't always understand those reasons.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Indeed, why restrict ourselves to one type of media. Why must the amazing set pieces be in movies? Why must the good stories be in books?

I prefer my entertainment to be interactive. The feeling of driving the action and being a part, and influencing the direction, of the action is part of what I find so appealing about video games. I like a good movie, but it's a passive experience.

EDIT: I have no issues with titles like this.

It's all relative though. As good as Dragon age origins' story is I don't think it really compares to things like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. Those medias can devote everything to making a great story, visuals etc. It's just not possible to compete when you have to worry about graphics, story, gameplay and all the mechanics and balance problems there and everything else a game requires. Too many limitations. Hell George r.r Martin often complains about how limiting film/television is already.

The interactivity thing makes sense though. Whilst Visual Novels allow you to make choices similar to the way your games do, they don't offer the same amount of interactivity that a video game can. I can understand that reason for preferring games.

Modifié par imbs, 05 février 2013 - 08:06 .

[Allan Schumacher]

It's all relative though. As good as Dragon age origins' story is I don't think it really compares to things like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. Those medias can devote everything to making a great story, visuals etc. It's just not possible to compete when you have to worry about graphics, story, gameplay and all the mechanics and balance problems there and everything else a game requires. Too many limitations. Hell George r.r Martin often complains about how limiting film/television is already.

To this day, Planescape: Torment remains my favourite story. It's also a game where I didn't really care for the combat.

Yeah there are some limitations, but I think it's also important to note that the industry itself is still quite young compared to books and film/television.