152 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

It's all relative though. As good as Dragon age origins' story is I don't think it really compares to things like Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. Those medias can devote everything to making a great story, visuals etc. It's just not possible to compete when you have to worry about graphics, story, gameplay and all the mechanics and balance problems there and everything else a game requires. Too many limitations. Hell George r.r Martin often complains about how limiting film/television is already.

To this day, Planescape: Torment remains my favourite story. It's also a game where I didn't really care for the combat.

I don't think anyone cares for the combat. 

[Gangster No.1]

The last thing I want from combat in a CRPG is a challenge. I do like challenging combat in pen-and-paper, though, because your party members are played by thinking humans (well, most of the time at least).

The main problems I have with challenging combat in CRPGs are AI-controlled party members, real-time tactical/strategic combat, or a combination thereof - like in the previous two DA games. I don't mind tactical combat at all, however, as long as I control the whole party and - if at all possible - it's turn-based combat. The old SSI Goldbox games are probably my most favorite games in that genre and a great example for how I like combat in a CRPG - yeah, I'm THAT old(school).

Especially with the limited controls on the Xbox360 or PS3, tactical real-time combat becomes a hassle. Something that was "officially recognised" by BioWare when they altered the difficulty settings on the console versions to not include friendly fire on normal difficulty already.

Combat in CRPGs has two functions for me: to earn XP, money, and loot, and to give me something to do besides talking to NPCs. And if combat is easy, I'm absolutely fine with that. Rather too easy than too hard, to be honest. And on a related note, I don't like bosses. They're an outdated concept used in old games, but really aren't necessary anymore nowadays.

[karushna5]

I am a gamer, I love games very much, have had games since I could play, but I like it being easy. You say I should stick to books for my entertainment, and I do like to read, very much, but nothing is like competeing and winning and suceeding and because of that you earn the next part. I didn't play Mass Effect until 2 had long been out. I just knew I liked KOTOR and Dragon Age and Bioware made my perfect game. I was worried it would be too tough, Halo is my nightmare as a gamer such that my sole duty when my friends get together to play is to die so my teammate can find the one shooting me, or to stand in front of my teammate while he shoots...yeah useless.

I am really bad at games, I always start on the lowest setting, and even then will die many times to get there. I like short combat that isn't boring, but barely challenging. I know I am not most gamers, but a gamer I am, and a gamer I will remain until the day every game is Dark Souls and impossible to get past. I don't think that my lack of challenge makes me less of a gamer, I just prefer different things

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Nope it's not insulting. Some people want to play the game with fights scaled down so they can focus on the story. You don't like it, don't play on that setting. Being a hardcore gamer and playing on Nightmare doesn't make you a badass. Neither does picking on people who want to play on super-easy.

Personally I like my challenge level moderate. Dying every five minutes isn't fun.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

*whoops! accidentally submitted same comment twice. stoopid firefox crash...*

Modifié par The Teryn of Whatever, 05 février 2013 - 10:05 .

[Wulfram]

humes spork wrote...

Or, make preset tactics and auto-leveling not suck. That would go a pretty long way towards making the game easier for new or casual players.

It's pretty ridiculous that Wynne in DA:O, for example, when auto-leveled ends up an extremely subpar support character compared to what a knowledgeable player could do, and that tactics presets do not a good healer or buffer make. Especially in light that making a decent AI healer alone requires 8-9 tactics slots, and you're left with barely a handful beyond that for sustained abilities (which can require 2-3 slots for proper use apiece), buffing and/or debuffing.

I always wonder if the auto-level is intended to be weak, or if the designers really don't understand their mechanics

[SeismicGravy]

How about a difficulty slider? That way everybody can play at their preferred difficulty level?

You could also add a challenge mode similar to Fallout: New Vegas, in which you have to eat and drink occasionally, otherwise you end up with some sort of penalty.

[Gangster No.1]

What I forgot to mention regarding difficulty are difficulty-related achievements/trophies. To be blunt, I really hate those. If I've beaten the game, I've beaten the game. It should make no difference whatsoever on what difficulty I did it. The same goes for certain opponents, e.g. the "Varterral's Fall" achievement/trophy for beating that opponent on hard or nightmare difficulty.

If I'm playing on a lower difficulty, that most likely means that combat is challenging enough for me as it is. And then having such achievements/trophies is a tad insulting and veeery annoying.

[Gnoster]

I think it is a great idea.

My experience so far with the DA series varies in difficulty; first times I play them I play on normal or difficult level, then I move on to nightmare or player mods expanding even that, now that I'm playing both DA games once again I go through them on easy difficulty because I'm in them for the story.

Personally I would recommend an even more diverse setting that just a narrative difficulty level. I would propose having the standard difficulty level setting (narrative being one of them), and then a separate option to enable and disable friendly fire as that single function can mean a huge difference to many people.

It is important however to not make certain items in game bsed on difficulty achievements like it was in certain DLC in Origins. I'm fine with having a Nightmare achievement, but remove the restriction on gear based on whether the game has already been beat on the hardest difficulty

Modifié par Gnoster, 05 février 2013 - 10:32 .

[Blazomancer]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Being a hardcore gamer and playing on Nightmare doesn't make you a badass. Neither does picking on people who want to play on super-easy.

.

Well said.

[Commander Kurt]

I think people are posting some really great ideas here.

- let us turn friendly fire on/off on every difficulty.
- better tutorials explaining stats/tactics.
- by all means include a narrative setting such as that in ME if people enjoy it (as they seem to do).

[karushna5]

Gangster No.1 wrote...

What I forgot to mention regarding difficulty are difficulty-related achievements/trophies. To be blunt, I really hate those. If I've beaten the game, I've beaten the game. It should make no difference whatsoever on what difficulty I did it. The same goes for certain opponents, e.g. the "Varterral's Fall" achievement/trophy for beating that opponent on hard or nightmare difficulty.

If I'm playing on a lower difficulty, that most likely means that combat is challenging enough for me as it is. And then having such achievements/trophies is a tad insulting and veeery annoying.

I actually disagree, one of the devs put it nicely... Achievements are supposed to be hard and you should have to work to get them, that is why they are there at all. You played the game but that doesn't mean you get all the achievements, in that case all achievements that are not automatically done by completeing the game should be out. If players who prefer easier difficulty say they would not like harder difficulty trophies...than those who do not like romance should not have to play one to get a trophy, or someone who chose Templars instead of mages should not get a trophy because then the Mage people couldn't get it when they completed the game.

If we want the, than we will have to fight for them achievements

[Vaeliorin]

Wulfram wrote...

humes spork wrote...
Or, make preset tactics and auto-leveling not suck. That would go a pretty long way towards making the game easier for new or casual players.

It's pretty ridiculous that Wynne in DA:O, for example, when auto-leveled ends up an extremely subpar support character compared to what a knowledgeable player could do, and that tactics presets do not a good healer or buffer make. Especially in light that making a decent AI healer alone requires 8-9 tactics slots, and you're left with barely a handful beyond that for sustained abilities (which can require 2-3 slots for proper use apiece), buffing and/or debuffing.

I always wonder if the auto-level is intended to be weak, or if the designers really don't understand their mechanics

I've long wondered that too. I have to believe that they intentionally make the auto-level terrible, because the idea they don't know enough to make them better is kind of depressing. Probably they just have an intern who knows nothing about the game put them together (at least that's my hope.)

[Paul E Dangerously]

I can think of about a dozen things that would be a better use of effort than "even easier than easy for people who want the game to play itself" difficulty, but hey.

If you're that disinterested in actually playing the game, why not watch a Let's Play?

[Nashimura]

I don't want hard gameplay in my story based games, i want to enjoy the story and make choices without getting stuck and locked off from the rest of the content. I love Dark Souls, its non story helps me not worry about how long it takes me to do things - if an encounter in DA takes so long it hurts pacing. The broodmother did this to me in my first playthrough of origins, i had to back track and go do other treaty quests then come back, frustrating and it hurt that quest line story.

This is why difficulty levels are important, i am not the only person playing these days and the game is not tailor made for me - nightmare should be a mightmare and easy should be easy. Narrative was a great idea for Mass Effect, normal was easy enough for me but some people are really bad/inexperienced with games and should be allowed to enjoy the game.

[Dirty Whore]

a suggestion is to tell your "friend" to find something he's actually good at instead of adding to the mass decline of video gaming.

If all he cares about is the story then just use cheat codes or watch the Youtube video's of the cutscenes which are usually up as soon as the game is released.

Video games are already too easy.

[Darth Krytie]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Nope it's not insulting. Some people want to play the game with fights scaled down so they can focus on the story. You don't like it, don't play on that setting. Being a hardcore gamer and playing on Nightmare doesn't make you a badass. Neither does picking on people who want to play on super-easy.

Personally I like my challenge level moderate. Dying every five minutes isn't fun.

Every word.

It's also an accessibility thing. Some people can't do it on hard because of physical limitations. Why not make it so more people can enjoy RPG gaming? The only person who should care about the difficulty you play on is the person playing the game.

[Nashimura]

Dirty **** wrote...

a suggestion is to tell your "friend" to find something he's actually good at instead of adding to the mass decline of video gaming.

If all he cares about is the story then just use cheat codes or watch the Youtube video's of the cutscenes which are usually up as soon as the game is released.

Video games are already too easy.

Yes, because adding varying difficulty levels is adding to some "Mass decline of videogaming" Maybe its you who needs a new hobby if it really is declining so fast. You know games can have options right? Easy mode for some, hard mode for others...

[Paul E Dangerously]

Nashimura wrote...

Dirty **** wrote...

a suggestion is to tell your "friend" to find something he's actually good at instead of adding to the mass decline of video gaming.

If all he cares about is the story then just use cheat codes or watch the Youtube video's of the cutscenes which are usually up as soon as the game is released.

Video games are already too easy.

Yes, because adding varying difficulty levels is adding to some "Mass decline of videogaming" Maybe its you who needs a new hobby if it really is declining so fast. You know games can have options right? Easy mode for some, hard mode for others...

They already do. DAO had four.

[Nashimura]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Nashimura wrote...

Dirty **** wrote...

a suggestion is to tell your "friend" to find something he's actually good at instead of adding to the mass decline of video gaming.

If all he cares about is the story then just use cheat codes or watch the Youtube video's of the cutscenes which are usually up as soon as the game is released.

Video games are already too easy.

Yes, because adding varying difficulty levels is adding to some "Mass decline of videogaming" Maybe its you who needs a new hobby if it really is declining so fast. You know games can have options right? Easy mode for some, hard mode for others...

They already do. DAO had four.

I know....

[imbs]

The Teryn of Whatever wrote...

Nope it's not insulting. Some people want to play the game with fights scaled down so they can focus on the story. You don't like it, don't play on that setting. Being a hardcore gamer and playing on Nightmare doesn't make you a badass. Neither does picking on people who want to play on super-easy.

Personally I like my challenge level moderate. Dying every five minutes isn't fun.

No1 does these things though, not really. When i have complained about difficulty in this thread and others i am not bragging about my superior video game skillz or whatever. I have complained about difficulty because i want things nice and hard. (thats what she said hehe) Without challenge in a game I get bored insta. When i replay DAO i have to use difficulty mods to keep things interesting. Whilst I am curious about why/how people get to the point where they pick the easiest setting every time they pick up a game, I have no bitterness towards that kind of thing.

My only bitterness stems from how easy in general games are today. Games *are* easier in general than ever before. Nightmare mode in DAO, DA2 is not a "nightmare" at all. There were harder games back in the times of 0 difficulty levels. This isn't their fault though, this is some kind of general trend. The only game that I have picked up recently that was actually genuinely difficult on higher levels was Civ5, and the AIs are still dumb in that game, they just get a load more stuff. It's kind of a depressing situation for those of us who like insane challenges.

The modding communities are the only real bright-side to modern gaming from this point of view. Being able to do anything you can to win without feeling guilty is great. Back when I played DAO without difficulty mods I couldn't bring myself to take spells like mana clash or perfect storm, or abuse shatter and many other things (including only using one character). With the mods though it is all fair game.

Modifié par imbs, 05 février 2013 - 01:38 .

[Fast Jimmy]

XX-Pyro wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

shnig_1 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

These "Bioware, let's talk about [insert subject]" thread titles seem really condescending.

should i change it then? I honestly will if i can get a better sounding title

It's just my opinion. If you were talking to someone who works at Bioware, that's one thing. But you're talking to other BSN members. Why not just say "Let's talk about difficulty" or "DA3's difficulty"? Who are you trying to impress with your thread titles?

...so you ARE saying the thread titles are impressive?

Mission Accomplished. 

Swing and a miss.

As the originator of that thread title (and its correlating format), I'm happy to point out that, despite 7 knock off threads using it (compared to my authentic 10), I'm still the only one who has used correct grammar in my title.

I mean... come on, BSN. 7/7 in bad grammar syntax thread names? Poor showing.

You capitalize every letter. I guess that's 17/17 with bad grammar.

Not to go back to an old topic, but its a Title. In a title, whether that be a title to a short story, a commencment speech or a scientific theory, you always capitalize it. 

I have had grammar rules pounded in my head relentlessly for the first 15 years of my life. Come at me, bro, with the grammar challenges.

[shnig_1]

My friend Brian (im sick of just saying friend lol) plays madden and basketball games 90% of the time. He also is a huge star wars fan. So when I showed him mass effect, it reminded him of star wars except interactive, so he started playing it.

So do those kind of people not deserve to play games like mass effect or dragon age if the game mechanics are so foreign to them?

Some may argue casual difficulty is already baby difficulty enough, but for some, that is still really hard for them, although possible

[nightscrawl]

shnig_1 wrote...

My friend Brian (im sick of just saying friend lol) plays madden and basketball games 90% of the time. He also is a huge star wars fan. So when I showed him mass effect, it reminded him of star wars except interactive, so he started playing it.

So do those kind of people not deserve to play games like mass effect or dragon age if the game mechanics are so foreign to them?

Some may argue casual difficulty is already baby difficulty enough, but for some, that is still really hard for them, although possible

And you don't think he, or players like that, would benefit from a detailed Tutorial mode, rather than a Narrative mode with no combat? To my way of thinking, if you help the player with things like that it opens up all of the other games they never thought to play because of gaming difficulties.

Let's be clear here: this is not about how easy Casual mode is, or how difficult Nightmare mode is, but rather Casual WITH combat versus Narrative mode with NO combat.

I am not coming at this issue from a "hardcore" viewpoint. Until recently I played DAO on Easy several times and DA2 on Normal several times (after having played it on Casual the first couple of plays). I will be completely honest and say that I never finished NWN2 because I could not do the final two boss fights on Easy and eventually gave up in frustration. Believe me, I know what it is to struggle with combat and be frustrated by deaths. I am coming from a place of wanting as many people to enjoy as many games as they can, and with that in mind, it is not realistic to expect companies to add a Narrative mode for all of their games, so I would rather help players with a Tutorial mode to teach them to deal with the fundamentals.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Agreed. The Cross class Combos were given half a page in the instruction manual and only given an Achievement as a means to teaching how they work. Skill descriptions helped with what causes what and what can be used, but there was never any clear description of how to do your first one, let alone how to set up the Tactics menu to make things insanely easier in combat.

If it wasn't for the DA2 Player's Guide, which went into a LOT more detail about head worked and the benefits they bring, I may have not gone back and leveled my characters to utilize them at every opportunity.

Yet, instead of incorporating a system which could help teach the concepts and use the features designed to make combat insanely easy, it apparently is preferable to just make all enemies killed in one hit.

Again, not against a Narrative Combat difficulty, but I think a good tutorial and much more transparency in what exactly each stat, tactic and feature does would be much more fun. Can you imagine if a game like Crusader Kings 2 if you had never played a game like that before and it DIDN'T have the tutorial system it has?

Complex games are good, but you have to give some groundwork for the player to start with. Making a game for casuals and a game for hardcore gamers doesn't mean you should squirrel the more complex features into a part of the game no one needs to even visit and make it possible to one-hit kill everything on a certain difficulty. It means you should make those systems well understood and incorporate a system that lets people ignore it if they want, not make the player have to go search for it and decipher it if they want a deeper combat experience.

Just my two cents, of course.