115 réponses à ce sujet

[Applepie_Svk]

Kazzuuk wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Syokhan wrote...

And derailing a thread because you think it's pointless isn't clever nor funny. The OP isn't trolling.

Perhaps, but the OP isn't contributing anything in the form of a constructive discussion. He's making accusations towards the company at the same time as insulting them and using 'artistic integrity' outside of its original context. Trolling or not, what he is doing isn't right.

^^ This

The OP went right to artistic intregrity meme and then had an angry logical fallacy stating they were lazy by doing more work than the presumed non lazy option. 

And Javik would've enjoyed waffles on the Normandy.

Ah come on.... artistic integrity was a joke since very beginning...

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 05 février 2013 - 10:23 .

[Jadebaby]

Regardless of the way the OP went about addressing this issue, it is still an issue.

By not contributing anything to the issue and instead addressing all of the faults in his delivery, while inserting your own memes where you see fit no less (waffles spam), you're contributing to the same type of presentation that you're whining about. Effectively making you all hypocrites.

Modifié par Jadebaby, 05 février 2013 - 09:50 .

[Ranger Jack Walker]

NPCs also reuse character models all the time, in every game.
Clearly, the entire gaming industry is filled with lazy bums.

[Jadebaby]

Indy_S wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

No, I blame EA. I can't blame BioWare for wanting to make ME a memorable story. Even it's endings is a result of EA stifling. What happens when you rush a worker? There work comes out sloppy... This is no exception for creative types. A level designer might have bugs or sections of the map you're not supposed to get to (Firebase Hydra).. And a writer's work shares the same fate in flaws in it's writing...

The fact that the script was changed so many times and as recently as the November leak in 2011, shows us it was all about time.

And honestly. I don't believe for a second BioWare sat around all day with their thumbs up their asses. I believe they became utter work-horses. But honestly, even if they worked 24/7.. Literally 24/7... Would there have been enough time to get everything in ME3 done that they had planned to do in just over two years?

That last sentence kind of works for my argument too. It's the other side of the coin. If they knew they couldn't do it in the given time, they should have scaled back. Designers have three constraints: time, money and scope. EA set time and money so it was up to BioWare to manage the scope. EA even gave extra time. I'm not trying to blame BioWare, but rather show there's two sides here.

There's always two sides... You don't need to illustrate it for me to see it.

But like I said. I can't blame BioWare for wanting to make Mass Effect memorable. To do that they needed it to be epic in scope and profound in meaning. They just didn't have enough time to pull it off.

That's where EA comes in.

And as for scaling it back... That's exactly what they did do... So you can't say that they "should" have scaled it back when it's already the case. Take all the datamined information found in 2011 for example. Most of those fetch quests were supposed to be actual missions. Is that not scaling it back?

If BioWare didn't compromise for EA's selfishness at all then the game wouldn't have been released, period.

[Indy_S]

No, the hypocrisy is mine and mine alone. I used spam and an attack on BioWare. At the very least, I maintained the tone of the thread in two(!) different ways. Artistic integrity, if you will.

OP, I have no idea if it's possible to swap the models.

[Slashice]

Sorry again for being to harsh in the first poss and in the thread's name. I've edited my post. My intentions was really just to get some answers not trolling. The disappointments spoke from me about this game. of it's storyline, it's autodialogues, simplified conversation wheel, retcons, plotholes, story inconsistences and now this. I really hope that by revealing such things BW can learn from it and maybe build even better games. Don't get me wrong, ME3 is still a masterpiece in itself but compared to ME1 and ME2 it's a bit letdown in several points.

Sorry again!

[Indy_S]

Jadebaby wrote...
If BioWare didn't compromise for EA's selfishness at all then the game wouldn't have been released, period.

If EA didn't fund BioWare at all then the game wouldn't have been released, full stop.

[Jadebaby]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

NPCs also reuse character models all the time, in every game.
Clearly, the entire gaming industry is filled with lazy bums.

There's nothing wrong with reuse character models or textures...

But don't show everyone this is what said character looks like, then change it completely the next time we see them..

And as far as I know, there's no codex illustrating that Harbinger sheds his "skin", or gets paint jobs every harvest to look "cool" or more intimidating like Sovereign.

It works if there is a reason for it in the lore.. The only reason here is time-constraints.

Unless, of course, it's an oversight... But I have more faith in BioWare that they wouldn't forget what their main antagonist looked like.

[ManOfSteel]

I imagine the Reapers are quite expensive, so only having three models (Dreadnought, Destroyer and Harbinger) allows them to cut down on memory cost and use it for other things. Games reuse models all the time. Unfortunately it's simply more noticeable with the Reapers because they're so big.

[Kazzuuk]

OP, in all seriousness, you may have better luck on the fan creation forum. I would imagine if it is possible, one of the fine ladies or gents in the modding community may be able to lend a hand.

[Kazzuuk]

Jadebaby wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

NPCs also reuse character models all the time, in every game.
Clearly, the entire gaming industry is filled with lazy bums.

There's nothing wrong with reuse character models or textures...

But don't show everyone this is what said character looks like, then change it completely the next time we see them..

And as far as I know, there's no codex illustrating that Harbinger sheds his "skin", or gets paint jobs every harvest to look "cool" or more intimidating like Sovereign.

It works if there is a reason for it in the lore.. The only reason here is time-constraints.

Unless, of course, it's an oversight... But I have more faith in BioWare that they wouldn't forget what their main antagonist looked like.

Another factor to consider is memory constraints.  Does anyone know what the size of the xbox 360 disc was when the game shipped?

[Jadebaby]

Indy_S wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...
If BioWare didn't compromise for EA's selfishness at all then the game wouldn't have been released, period.

If EA didn't fund BioWare at all then the game wouldn't have been released, full stop.

Oh so what? We should be thankful to EA for giving us Mass Effect 3 at all?

Come on!!

You think it was charity work from them? Mass Effect might not have as big of a fanbase as some other franchises.. But do you have any idea how crazy people go over Mass Effect? EA were always going to make money of a Mass Effect 3 title.. The problem is, they just wanted it NAO! Instead of waiting for it to be completely ready...

*cough* Halo 4 *cough* Skyrim *cough*

[Jadebaby]

Kazzuuk wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

NPCs also reuse character models all the time, in every game.
Clearly, the entire gaming industry is filled with lazy bums.

There's nothing wrong with reuse character models or textures...

But don't show everyone this is what said character looks like, then change it completely the next time we see them..

And as far as I know, there's no codex illustrating that Harbinger sheds his "skin", or gets paint jobs every harvest to look "cool" or more intimidating like Sovereign.

It works if there is a reason for it in the lore.. The only reason here is time-constraints.

Unless, of course, it's an oversight... But I have more faith in BioWare that they wouldn't forget what their main antagonist looked like.

Another factor to consider is memory constraints.  Does anyone know what the size of the xbox 360 disc was when the game shipped?

Not the biggest issue, just brand another disc....

L.A Noire has 3 discs... And that's not even an RPG.

[Slashice]

Kazzuuk wrote...

OP, in all seriousness, you may have better luck on the fan creation forum. I would imagine if it is possible, one of the fine ladies or gents in the modding community may be able to lend a hand.

Thanks for the idea, I'll look into it! 

It would be great tho if Bioware officially answer for all the fan questions about the retcons that has implemented in ME3. I'm sure they had their good reasons but without any answers we can only guess and those aren't any good especially after they "artistic integrity" response on the ending that has filled with plot holes, retcons and story inconsistences. For me it was an answer "we didn't have time to replay and/or reread all the events of the previous games, we came up with this and deal with it". Which is said. ME3 still game of the year for me. But if they would have avoided all the mistakes they did this game would be the game of the century for me. So much potential.

Some guys doing an a space strategy game in the ME universe (I think it's a mod) and they modelled quite a lot of Reaper types, click here to see it. It really gives depth to the feeling that the harvests of countless cycles were going on for billions of years. I would have kept the ME2 Harbinger since as I said it looks ancient and also enormous.

[Fredvdp]

To be honest, I barely noticed that harbinger had changed at all (we don't see much of him in ME2), but now that I look at the comparsion pics, I do agree that the ME2 model looks a bit better. I think BioWare shot themselves in the foot when they showed the variety in Reapers at the end of ME2. I expected to see more unique designs in ME3 and was a bit disappointed, but I understand they had higher priorities.

What's this? An on-topic post that doesn't insult the OP for making a valid point? Madness!

[Slashice]

Also as for the trooper transport it would've nice to see it in action in the Leviathan DLC. Instead we got a strangely simplified Sovereign class Reaper popped out the sky and started shooting Cannibals all over the place. That was weird. I really hope that in the upcoming DLCs we might see the other Reaper classes in action. I'm just in love with the last scene of ME2 seeing the Reaper armada marching towards the Milky Way.

[Indy_S]

Two sides of a coin. You're defending BioWare by attacking EA. I view that as the wrong way to go about it (but I am a hypocrite so I'm defending EA by attacking BioWare). EA's investment made the game, so yes, you should be thankful to them that there was a game (I can understand not wanting to thank anyone for *this*). EA set a limit, it was BioWare's job to get under it. Every major publisher/developer relationship works like this. Money and jobs are at stake, after all. That might be distasteful but it's not immoral.

[Kazzuuk]

Slashice wrote...

Kazzuuk wrote...

OP, in all seriousness, you may have better luck on the fan creation forum. I would imagine if it is possible, one of the fine ladies or gents in the modding community may be able to lend a hand.

Thanks for the idea, I'll look into it! 

It would be great tho if Bioware officially answer for all the fan questions about the retcons that has implemented in ME3. I'm sure they had their good reasons but without any answers we can only guess and those aren't any good especially after they "artistic integrity" response on the ending that has filled with plot holes, retcons and story inconsistences. For me it was an answer "we didn't have time to replay and/or reread all the events of the previous games, we came up with this and deal with it". Which is said. ME3 still game of the year for me. But if they would have avoided all the mistakes they did this game would be the game of the century for me. So much potential.

Some guys doing an a space strategy game in the ME universe (I think it's a mod) and they modelled quite a lot of Reaper types, click here to see it. It really gives depth to the feeling that the harvests of countless cycles were going on for billions of years. I would have kept the ME2 Harbinger since as I said it looks ancient and also enormous.

I wonder if your link is for the Sins of a Solar Empire mod in the works.  I absolutely love that game and the various mods for it.  www.moddb.com/mods/mass-effect-dawn-of-the-reapers

[Slashice]

Kazzuuk wrote...

Slashice wrote...

Kazzuuk wrote...

OP, in all seriousness, you may have better luck on the fan creation forum. I would imagine if it is possible, one of the fine ladies or gents in the modding community may be able to lend a hand.

Thanks for the idea, I'll look into it! 

It would be great tho if Bioware officially answer for all the fan questions about the retcons that has implemented in ME3. I'm sure they had their good reasons but without any answers we can only guess and those aren't any good especially after they "artistic integrity" response on the ending that has filled with plot holes, retcons and story inconsistences. For me it was an answer "we didn't have time to replay and/or reread all the events of the previous games, we came up with this and deal with it". Which is said. ME3 still game of the year for me. But if they would have avoided all the mistakes they did this game would be the game of the century for me. So much potential.

Some guys doing an a space strategy game in the ME universe (I think it's a mod) and they modelled quite a lot of Reaper types, click here to see it. It really gives depth to the feeling that the harvests of countless cycles were going on for billions of years. I would have kept the ME2 Harbinger since as I said it looks ancient and also enormous.

I wonder if your link is for the Sins of a Solar Empire mod in the works.  I absolutely love that game and the various mods for it.  www.moddb.com/mods/mass-effect-dawn-of-the-reapers

Yes it is, thanks for telling me!  That project looks incredible! 

[Slashice]

Also it would have been nice to have at least 4-5 different textures for the same Reaper modells showing some kind of evolution for them. For comparison let's take ME2 Harbinger vs ME3 Harbinger textures. The ME2 one has a rusty impression a bit robostus giving a really ancient feeling. Yet the ME3 one looks more metallic more shiny, more sparky thus more evolved.

[Slashice]

Also here's an other nice comparison:

Sovereign from ME1 vs Sovereign class Reaper from ME3

Sovereign looks ancient like he's really the vanguard of our destruction. Yet ME3 SC Reaper rather look like a regular warship from one of the recent cycles.

[Indy_S]

I would have preferred all the ships to look older. And have a greater variety to them.

[Jadebaby]

Indy_S wrote...

Two sides of a coin. You're defending BioWare by attacking EA. I view that as the wrong way to go about it (but I am a hypocrite so I'm defending EA by attacking BioWare). EA's investment made the game, so yes, you should be thankful to them that there was a game (I can understand not wanting to thank anyone for *this*). EA set a limit, it was BioWare's job to get under it. Every major publisher/developer relationship works like this. Money and jobs are at stake, after all. That might be distasteful but it's not immoral.

But they were deadlines set out of ignorance, EA don't know the first thing in regards to handling an RPG, they are so set in their ways of getting games out annually that 2 years to them is "ample" time for game development.
They don't flood the market  with quality, but quantity.

And as far as I'm aware  Microsoft Game Studios never said they weren't going to publish Mass Effect after the first one....Which leads me to believe that if EA didn't purchase BioWare, then ME2 and 3 would have been published by Microsoft... Which I'm sure a lot of people would have prefered.

[Slashice]

Jadebaby wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Two sides of a coin. You're defending BioWare by attacking EA. I view that as the wrong way to go about it (but I am a hypocrite so I'm defending EA by attacking BioWare). EA's investment made the game, so yes, you should be thankful to them that there was a game (I can understand not wanting to thank anyone for *this*). EA set a limit, it was BioWare's job to get under it. Every major publisher/developer relationship works like this. Money and jobs are at stake, after all. That might be distasteful but it's not immoral.

But they were deadlines set out of ignorance, EA don't know the first thing in regards to handling an RPG, they are so set in their ways of getting games out annually that 2 years to them is "ample" time for game development.
They don't flood the market  with quality, but quantity.

And as far as I'm aware  Microsoft Game Studios never said they weren't going to publish Mass Effect after the first one....Which leads me to believe that if EA didn't purchase BioWare, then ME2 and 3 would have been published by Microsoft... Which I'm sure a lot of people would have prefered.

Agree!  Nowdays EA is rather "spamming" the markets with games but not quality games. That's why I'm so afraid of Dead Space 3 which I've allready bought. We'll see but that's a whole other topic:)

Modifié par Slashice, 05 février 2013 - 10:49 .

[KiwiQuiche]

I wanted all the ME2 end reapers to show up

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 05 février 2013 - 10:48 .