115 réponses à ce sujet

[spirosz]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Oh no, the Reaper model is missing a leg, clearly Bioware are all malevolent/lazy developers who sit up at night cackling and dreaming of new ways to ****** you off.

They didn't add all of Jack's tattoo's either and changed them up a bit.  

[Slashice]

Greylycantrope wrote...

It be a matter of resource limitations not laziness.

They only had to import Harbi's shape from ME2 into ME3. Same engine not much to do with it. Instead they created a very similar model to Sovereign for all the Reapers in ME3 and the only difference between them and Harbinger is that it has 1 less leg and some glowing eyes. That's not resource limitation... Even if they wanted to retexture Harbi they allready had the (that awesome!) model for him. Instead we have a canon reaper model for Harbi aswell.

[Slashice]

Hmmm I think it has something to do with making the Reapers meaningless. From ME1 and ME2 we had the feeling that each Reaper represents a nation, free from all weakness, they're all a unique AI, can think for themselfs. In ME3 they're just puppets of a starchild with a weird logic.

Tho the fact that the starchild idea only came up in the last minutes by Hudson and Walters is disproves this theory.

[Slashice]

eddieoctane wrote...

The feasibility of creating unique models for every Reaper seen in-game is dubious at best. Also, the rearward half-two thirds seems to be repeated across many of the Reapers shown at the end of ME2. While I'd have liked to see many different Reapers, I think the best we could have hoped for was a mix-and-match setup of a handful of different components repeated over and over. Many games use systems like that to generate random characters in the background (GTA comes readily to mind). When the mini-reapers chase you across the map for scanning too often, we'd still probably only have 1 model for that, however.

All in all, this is the least of the issues with ME3.

Lorewise it is an issue. According to the lore, Reapers are made of the genetic materia of a specific species. At they early stage of creation they resemble to their origins (Human proto-reaper). It is said that at the end phase they're all moved under this cuttlefish like shell so you won't see the larve part. Yet some of the species might be so big or small, that they require a slightly different shell which still resembles to Leviathans. Also it is safe to assume that throughout time the Reapers evolve, so their design change a bit. But I guess it's hard to fit such things into artistic integrity...

[Haargel]

Jadebaby wrote...

Haargel wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Strangely enough I'm with you OP, they clearly were cut short of time and had to just re-use Sovereign model and alter it slightly...

Don't blame BioWare for that.

Blame EA.

Yes, blame EA or blame the great founders of BioWare for selling out to EA. I wonder what might have been if BioWare stood independent and continued with Microsoft as it's publisher.

They probably received "An offer you can't refuse", and recent interviews that they left because they were tired and wanted to focus on something else? I don't believe a word of it, it was probably in the contract when EA took over BW.

"Stay with BW till then, and leave"

They probably became very rich with that deal and honestly, I would do the same. After all, even if your love for doing certain things is unlimited, when the big sack of money arrives, it doesn't matter anymore.

If I'm not mistaken, and this is at the risk of sounding extremely ignorant, but I don't think the Doctors had any say in the transition. I think it was all down to John Riccitello because he held a majority shares in a holding company that baught the rights to BioWare before EA got their grubby hands on them...

Honestly, I didn't knew that, thanks for clearing that up.

Me phrasing " the great founders" wasn't meant sarcastic btw. I should clear that out because of angry PM's. They are the great founders of bioWare, and I have much respect for them.

Holding companies... urghhh (and that's NOT sarcastic)

Modifié par Haargel, 05 février 2013 - 02:56 .

[Haargel]

k.lalh wrote...

Haargel wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Strangely enough I'm with you OP, they clearly were cut short of time and had to just re-use Sovereign model and alter it slightly...

Don't blame BioWare for that.

Blame EA.

Yes, blame EA or blame the great founders of BioWare for selling out to EA. I wonder what might have been if BioWare stood independent and continued with Microsoft as it's publisher.

They probably received "An offer you can't refuse", and recent interviews that they left because they were tired and wanted to focus on something else? I don't believe a word of it, it was probably in the contract when EA took over BW.

"Stay with BW till then, and leave"

They probably became very rich with that deal and honestly, I would do the same. After all, even if your love for doing certain things is unlimited, when the big sack of money arrives, it doesn't matter anymore.

Actually BioWare didn't sell itself to EA directly. It was bought out, along with Pandemic (which made my beloved, Battlefront II) by Elevation Partners (a private equity group). This partnership, called VG holding corp, was bought out by EA in October 2007.

Because of that BW had little control over their own future, and the man that organized that takeover of BioWare, John Riccitiello, is now the company's CEO.

So it's still okay to blame EA.

Edit: Jade beat me to it.

I understand, And I did not knew about this. (read my previous post)

Anyway, thanks for clearing it up. Much appreciated and it just proves that I'm not so smart that I hope to be 

[Jadebaby]

Makes you wonder how John Riccitiello got the job as CEO with EA no?

Damn criminal if you ask me.

[Grubas]

is this true, that if you play a non-ME2 save, harbinger isn't even mentioned?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Grubas wrote...

is this true, that if you play a non-ME2 save, harbinger isn't even mentioned?

Yup.

[Jadebaby]

WOW REALLY!?

[GimmeDaGun]

Slashice wrote...

eddieoctane wrote...

The feasibility of creating unique models for every Reaper seen in-game is dubious at best. Also, the rearward half-two thirds seems to be repeated across many of the Reapers shown at the end of ME2. While I'd have liked to see many different Reapers, I think the best we could have hoped for was a mix-and-match setup of a handful of different components repeated over and over. Many games use systems like that to generate random characters in the background (GTA comes readily to mind). When the mini-reapers chase you across the map for scanning too often, we'd still probably only have 1 model for that, however.

All in all, this is the least of the issues with ME3.

Lorewise it is an issue. According to the lore, Reapers are made of the genetic materia of a specific species. At they early stage of creation they resemble to their origins (Human proto-reaper). It is said that at the end phase they're all moved under this cuttlefish like shell so you won't see the larve part. Yet some of the species might be so big or small, that they require a slightly different shell which still resembles to Leviathans. Also it is safe to assume that throughout time the Reapers evolve, so their design change a bit. But I guess it's hard to fit such things into artistic integrity...

Souverign, the derelict reaper (where you pick up the IFF), the reaper's schematic in Kej-Gi's (I don't know how he writes his name properly) grey-box (the one found on Dis, killed by one of the Leviathans, and taken by the Batarians) which you can see for a brief moment in Stolen Memories are quite identical (it's pretty much the same design). Also Harbinger is very similar to them (it has this strange crest which you can only see on the schematics and the 4 eyes, and one missing leg, and it supposed to be the first reaper, the most unique one). Also in that brief shot in the end of ME 2 beside the 2 unique desings, we see many quite identical reapers next to each other. So I still don't see what's all this fuss about. I get that abusing the quote, "artistic integrity" must be fun, but there's nothing lore breaking in the reaper desing of ME3. You can see Harbinger only for a few seconds in ME3 and in the game you truly can't tell the difference. I find this reaper desing question extra-über-nitpicky. 

[AresKeith]

The Reapers design wasn't lazy just rushed

Now Tali's face, that was lazy

[Grubas]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Grubas wrote...

is this true, that if you play a non-ME2 save, harbinger isn't even mentioned?

Yup.

O mine god!!!!!!!!!!!!
so this is the reason why there was no harbinger bossfight! He got the ME2 squad-treatment. 

[Slashice]

Grubas wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Grubas wrote...

is this true, that if you play a non-ME2 save, harbinger isn't even mentioned?

Yup.

O mine god!!!!!!!!!!!!
so this is the reason why there was no harbinger bossfight! He got the ME2 squad-treatment. 

ujmm... Thats too much to handle right now.... Before i say anything rude about ea or bw... Shove up your artistic integrit

[Slashice]

 No mentioning of dark energy about haestrom... Ok
no mentioning of human genetic diversity... Ok
but not mentioning harbinger???? Wtf bioware????

hes supposed to be the supervillain!!! Ok, maybe i should throw my me1 and me2 into the thrash bin! Wait, no! Ill do that with me3.....

[Slashice]

"Artistic integrity" a label created by bioware to give voice to their destruction...

[Grubas]

Slashice wrote...

"Artistic integrity" a label created by bioware to give voice to their destruction...

Alright .. lets just calm down... We dont want this thread locked!
3
2
1

(forced smile) Evrrrrrthings fineeee. 

[NM_Che56]

I just want Bioware to put him in the game, properly.

[Fawx9]

And now you know why they didn't have Harby talk.

Didn't you know the last game of the series is the best to start at?

[BattleCop88]

Jadebaby wrote...

Strangely enough I'm with you OP, they clearly were cut short of time and had to just re-use Sovereign model and alter it slightly...

Don't blame BioWare for that.

Blame EA.

This. The new textures look neat, but I was looking forward to fighting the derpy looking reaper with the stubby legs

[Slashice]

Grubas wrote...

Slashice wrote...

"Artistic integrity" a label created by bioware to give voice to their destruction...

Alright .. lets just calm down... We dont want this thread locked!
3
2
1

(forced smile) Evrrrrrthings fineeee. 

You're right, sorry bout that... that was just really too much to handle. I knew that ME3 ignored pretty much every and all foreshadowing and hinting that has made in ME2 but I didn't knew that they ignored the second installment so much that they even dumbed Harbinger. He was supposed to be the main boss, he was always taunting us throughut ME2, we had a nice talk with him in Arrival. And if you doesnt import a save game from the previous games you won't even know him? 

Well I guess it's something I can't comprehend...

I have to deal with the fact that the Reapers are just somekind of toys for an advanced AI with a ****ed up logic, who's so advanced that didn't even notice the Protheans placed a mass relay in his home, used it and then sabotaged those keepers who're controlled by the Citadel thus by him.

Well, ME3 has a quite decent graphics and some nice cinematics, period.

[Grubas]

Lets pretend he died in the suiciderun or something. Its better that way.

[Slashice]

Grubas wrote...

Lets pretend he died in the suiciderun or something. Its better that way.

Aye... btw I love your priority: earth draft! this is how BW should've made the ending where really all your previous chocies matter! But it's.... ah, nvm

I just only wish that they read this forum and listen to the fans and they will release a fixed version of ME3. Boss fight with Harbinger, conversation with Harbinger, decent Reaper armada (even if the other variety of Reapers shown only in cinematics), no retcons, no story incosistences, less auto dialgoues, bring back the neutral option on the conversation wheel (even if it was sometimes the same as the paragon option - but it's an RPG... not an Call of Duty clone, or wait... maybe it is a CoD clone...) and make an ending where your previous choices do matter, and en ending which doesn't make any sequel nearly impossible in the near future... Also throw the starchild out of the airlock command... bioware! and if you're at the airlock maybe you should send kai leng with him... just so he wont be lonely

[Brovikk Rasputin]

"Instead Bioware used the so called "Sovereign class" Reaper model, but chomped it's middle leg... is this considered "artististic integrity" aswell?"
Aaaaaaaand, stopped reading right there.

[XxBrokenBonezxX]

Slashice wrote...

Click here to see what I mean.

Harbinger vs ME3 Sovereign class Reaper

Also I loved the variety of Reapers shown at the end of ME2

I facepalm over something new everyday. Harbingers model in 3 is too damn cool, but seeing that huge spike he had in ME2 and then it not being in 3 is completely dumb. I was so pumped to see all those Reaper models at the end of ME2, and then we get 2 in reality. Sovereign class was cool as always, but Destroyers are the lamest model ever.