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Gamers and ME1 and ME3 fans


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#76
Dark_Caduceus

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Auld Wulf wrote...

One of the core problems with gamers, as a subculture, is that the vast majority (over 90%) are locked into binary thinking as their sole means of perception. That's terrifying. What this means is that there can be no nuances, no subtlety, no tenets of human nature even; everyone has to be 1 or 0. You are a good guy (1), you have allies (1), you are opposed by a great, faceless evil (0), you must destroy the evil (0). Good (1) can only do good, evil (0) can only do evil. There are no grey zones, no in-between.

This is one, true reason behind why so many gamers hated the ending of ME3. They were 1, and tehy wanted to see 0 destroyed. Those gamers, as 1, wanted to be celebrated for having removed 0 from existence. It's kind of like extreme racism and propaganda, these people would be very easy to brainwash. Very easy. And that's also terrifying. At the end of ME3, we discover that the reapers are, indeed, not 0. And that we are not technically 1, and that holy ****, binary thinking may be entirely the wrong way of looking at reality all together.

This made too many minds snap like so many dry twigs. I could almost hear the snapping sounds as people took to the Internet with torches and pitchforks. ME1 was very much implicative of the gamer psyche, in that it was very black & white. Sovereign was 0, Saren was 0, Shepard was 1. It was all so very easy to understand. In fact, if you remove the somewhat nicely written dialogue and boil it down, Mass Effect 1 reads like a Saturday morning cartoon in its intellectual simplicity.

That's why I disliked ME1. If I wanted a Saturday morning cartoon, I'd go watch one. And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were better at doing what ME1 was than ME1, thank you. If I wanted something that simple and corny, I'd just watch it. I mean, really, I couldn't stop facepalming at ME1 because it was just that bad. And that's what gamers have been trained to like, simple plots with good guy (1) versus bad guy (0).

Give them anything more complicated than that and they feel so amazingly challenged that they throw their toys out of the pram. I was actually delighted by ME3 and its ending, a complete dismissal of binary thinking and gaming tenets, in favour of telling an intelligent, emotionally charged story. I consider myself a gamer, but very few games live up to my standards in regards to story. Mask of the Betrayer, Fallout: New Vegas, Spec-ops: The Line, and Mass Effect 3 have been a few of the very few highlights of the last decade.

For me, I really have no interest in how complicated the game mechanics are, I just want an intellectually mature and emotionally charged storyline (with choice and consequence, if possible, and based upon more complex ethics). What I don't want is binary thinking. I'm glad the reapers weren't portrayed as a faceless evil, as they were so foolishly in Mass Effect 1 (the bloody Saturday morning cartoon that it was). I'm happy about that. And I want to see BioWare do more of that.

Gaming needs to become less gamey, frankly. It needs to grow up. Binary thinking is for kids.


You're right, the Mass Effect 3 ending wasn't binary. It was trinary. The addition of a third choice is completely unprecedented and morally challenging; it crushed my previous conception of video game choices. Definitely wasn't just a silly A,B,C choice differing almost entirely on a superficial level... hey, wait a second.

Here's the thing, you can characterize Mass Effect 1 as a Saturday morning cartoon as much as you like. But at least the story was well told and consistent. Hell, actual Saturday morning cartoons have better stories than Mass Effect 3.

Edit: Also, haven't you sort of outed yourself as a dichotomous thinker by splitting the entire videogaming subculture as the 90% (proles and Huxlein Deltas) vs. the other 10%(enlightened and multifarious).

Modifié par Dark_Caduceus, 06 février 2013 - 03:40 .


#77
nopantsisabela

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Well Auld Wolf, isn't it a bit black and white of you to make such assumptions about ME players?

I don't know how you'd know that "over 90%" of us are brainwashable fodder seeing as how you don't know me, or anyone else on here. Same follows for you being able to hear our "minds snap" - as you put it so... eloquently.

I'm glad you were delighted by ME3 but please don't let your pride in your particular preferences fool you into thinking you automatically have better taste than everyone who disagrees with you.

#78
Indy_S

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Auld Wulf, you have a doozy of an issue you're trying to resolve. You see, much like the Catalyst, your problem isn't based on anything. It uses such horrible absolutes for nothing short of an opinionated rant against people for being people. And they're not even doing that.

Your insults against my (and others) intelligence aside, your view of why there are issues with the ending are wrong. It has nothing to do with binary thinking. It has to do with storytelling, presentation, execution and a ton of other technical bits and pieces that comprise the greater whole. I know you'd just dismiss any link to a Smudboy video so I'm not going to resort to it. Rest assured, the complaints that the fans have had are legitimate.

Another problem you seem unable to comprehend is that the fans also have issues with other parts of the game that don't stem from the ending. Some people reacted poorly with the child in the vent, the forced 'yay Earth' mentality, the contrived introduction of the Crucible, the apparent size of Cerberus and so on. You can keep ignoring it all you like but DON'T TAKE TO INSULTING OTHERS IN PLACE OF JUSTIFYING YOURSELF.

#79
EnvyTB075

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Spec Ops disproves your assertion. Gamers are ready for it, but like everything they will only accept it when its done well, which is not something that ME3 did.

Indy_S wrote...

Another problem you seem unable to
comprehend is that the fans also have issues with other parts of the
game that don't stem from the ending. Some people reacted poorly with
the child in the vent, the forced 'yay Earth' mentality, the contrived
introduction of the Crucible, the apparent size of Cerberus and so on.


Precisely. Most of us slogged through it in the hope that all the pain would bear fruit, and when it didn't....well.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 06 février 2013 - 09:01 .


#80
FlamingBoy

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Auld Wulf wrote...

One of the core problems with gamers, as a subculture, is that the vast majority (over 90%) are locked into binary thinking as their sole means of perception. That's terrifying. What this means is that there can be no nuances, no subtlety, no tenets of human nature even; everyone has to be 1 or 0. You are a good guy (1), you have allies (1), you are opposed by a great, faceless evil (0), you must destroy the evil (0). Good (1) can only do good, evil (0) can only do evil. There are no grey zones, no in-between.

This is one, true reason behind why so many gamers hated the ending of ME3. They were 1, and tehy wanted to see 0 destroyed. Those gamers, as 1, wanted to be celebrated for having removed 0 from existence. It's kind of like extreme racism and propaganda, these people would be very easy to brainwash. Very easy. And that's also terrifying. At the end of ME3, we discover that the reapers are, indeed, not 0. And that we are not technically 1, and that holy ****, binary thinking may be entirely the wrong way of looking at reality all together.

This made too many minds snap like so many dry twigs. I could almost hear the snapping sounds as people took to the Internet with torches and pitchforks. ME1 was very much implicative of the gamer psyche, in that it was very black & white. Sovereign was 0, Saren was 0, Shepard was 1. It was all so very easy to understand. In fact, if you remove the somewhat nicely written dialogue and boil it down, Mass Effect 1 reads like a Saturday morning cartoon in its intellectual simplicity.

That's why I disliked ME1. If I wanted a Saturday morning cartoon, I'd go watch one. And the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were better at doing what ME1 was than ME1, thank you. If I wanted something that simple and corny, I'd just watch it. I mean, really, I couldn't stop facepalming at ME1 because it was just that bad. And that's what gamers have been trained to like, simple plots with good guy (1) versus bad guy (0).

Give them anything more complicated than that and they feel so amazingly challenged that they throw their toys out of the pram. I was actually delighted by ME3 and its ending, a complete dismissal of binary thinking and gaming tenets, in favour of telling an intelligent, emotionally charged story. I consider myself a gamer, but very few games live up to my standards in regards to story. Mask of the Betrayer, Fallout: New Vegas, Spec-ops: The Line, and Mass Effect 3 have been a few of the very few highlights of the last decade.

For me, I really have no interest in how complicated the game mechanics are, I just want an intellectually mature and emotionally charged storyline (with choice and consequence, if possible, and based upon more complex ethics). What I don't want is binary thinking. I'm glad the reapers weren't portrayed as a faceless evil, as they were so foolishly in Mass Effect 1 (the bloody Saturday morning cartoon that it was). I'm happy about that. And I want to see BioWare do more of that.

Gaming needs to become less gamey, frankly. It needs to grow up. Binary thinking is for kids.


pure pseudoscience.

and ironically enough, like the catalyst your trying to find a problem where none exists

Modifié par FlamingBoy, 06 février 2013 - 08:12 .


#81
Obitim

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Hey there dudes,

lets keep it on topic, I appreciate what you;re saying Auld Wolf, but do you think you could be less inflammatory?

#82
Bourne Endeavor

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Asch Lavigne wrote...

ME1 for every possible reason you could think of other than the combat and inventory.

I have a long, long list of favorite games, my collection has well over 100 games (not a lot to some but to me it is).

But my top 5 are (in no particular order):
ME1
Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Final Fantasy X
Chrono Cross

Persona 4


Props, mate. Two of my absolute favorite games of all time. Been a while since I rolled either out.

#83
Obsidian Gryphon

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Of the three, it would be ME 1. Nothing quite gripped me when I first saw the intro of the game.

As for other games that are favs.. off hand...

Blade Runner
The Longest Journey
Free Space 2
Unreal Tournament '99

#84
Obitim

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rowan93 wrote...

Hmm overall I think ME1, probably because its the first one I played but there are a things that I like better than the other 2.

The Mako never bothered me, I enjoyed the scenery in the missions a lot. It makes the galaxy seem bigger too.

The citadel in ME1 is one of my favourite moments in gaming, its huge and really sets the tone of the world that your introduced too.

The music. Especially the vigil theme and the background music in the wards.

The combat isn't the best but it had a sense of progression, your sniper isn't great at the beginning but later your taking down geth with one shot, and your stability is near perfect.

Now I will admit sometimes it feels like a bit of a chore to play because a lot of the dialogue is exposition that can get tiring when you are familiar with the lore and whatnot. Plus it doesn't run as well as the other two.

Edit: And honestly, the elevators and loading screens were much better in no1. Okay maybe they were a bit long sometimes, but they were immersive and made you feel like the world was connected. ME2 was a stepback with its orange holographic loading screens, they grated on me more than the elevators ever did.

Further edit: Games I enjoy, Halo, Fallout, Skyrim, Mass Effect, Call of Duty occasionally, and I am currently semi-addicted to Super Meat Boy.


Super Meat boy is ace!  Altjhough, as you say, easy to get semi addicted too!

#85
Biotic Sage

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This line of reductionist thinking isn't really productive. Both of the games have too many nuances and complexities for you to neatly organize the fanbase into overly simplistic boxes (e.g. gameplay fans = ME3 fans and Baldur's Gate fans = ME1 fans). Not to mention the overlap, subjectivity, etc. etc.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 06 février 2013 - 11:36 .


#86
Obitim

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That;s the thing, I'm not going for that at all, it;s too simplistic, as you say, humans are complex and layered.

What I'm looking for is trends of who likes what,. I agree, it won't be exact and it's not science at all, it;s seeing preferences and patterns.

There's a lot of people on this thread who have enjoyed ME3 and BG series, so it's not clear cut

Quick Edit, awesome avatar pic!  Not that I'm biased!

Modifié par Obitim, 06 février 2013 - 12:03 .


#87
AlanC9

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We had a discussion something like this on the DA boards a while back I'd link it if I had the thread title. We noticed an odd demographic breakdown. Older and younger players seem to be much less likely to think traditional CRPG mechanics are important than players who played lots of classic CRPGs in their teens.

Just an odd data point, like noticing that political conservatives are much more likely to be hostile to the ME3 endings. I don't know what it means, or even if it's real data.

Modifié par AlanC9, 06 février 2013 - 06:07 .


#88
SpamBot2000

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You know how it goes, you're either a binary thinker or you're not...

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 06 février 2013 - 07:07 .


#89
loungeshep

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HOnestly, I like the expanse that Mass Effect 1 had, the episodic nature of 2, and the general feel that you're in the middle of a war where everything you do is about the war, also the fact that Shepard has more freedom of movement. I prefer the inventory of 3, the leveling up of 1 ( though reaching 60 in one play through would be nice) I like that through all three yoiu have Garrus and Tali by your side, that Liara and Ash/Kaiden return in 3.

I don't really have a specific favorite, as all three blend together as one game for me just each is a separate act.

Favorite games? The MEtroid series, uh Batman Arkham Asylum/City, Portal 2, Dragon Age 2, I liked Kingdoms of AMalur but I lost interest and then sold it to get Transformers fall of Cybertron, also Fall of Cybertron, Dead Space 2 surprisingly, I"m sure there's others, as I'm highly choosy of what games I"ll play and buy.