217 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

MrDizaztar wrote...

For me it was because majority of ME2 squadmates got the shaft when ME3 came out. If you weren't originally on ME1 then screw you was what I got from it. I mean I understand Thane and Mordin dying but was there a point to why Miranda, Jacob, Grunt, Jack, or Legion weren't a part of the team? Instead we get a new audience surrogate in Vega.

Vega is actually a really great Character if you give him the chance. I actually prefer him over quite a few squaddies from ME2. 

[StayFrosty05]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

We want her on Cronos Station because she was the second-of-command of Cerberus and she has story relevance during that mission. Doing the Tuchanka arc? Bring Mordin; relevant. Doing the quarian arc? Bring Legion; relevant. Taking down Cerberus? HMMMMMM.

And do not tell me Miranda's involvement in taking down Cerberus would only have appealed to her fans. The woman was almost religiously loyal to Cerberus. She has now lost her religion. Found herself in the wrong. That's gotta be juicy to more than just fans.

I am neutral on the matter of Miranda taking TIM's place, but I think it basically comes from a desire for Cerberus to not get completely fictionally assassinated. That is, some players saw value in Cerberus in ME2, disliked what BioWare did with it in ME3, and perhaps also think it's lame that the moral ambiguity of Cerberus was thrown out completely and replaced with lolcrazyevil. So what I hear sometimes is a desire for there to be some kind of choice at the end of Cronos Station, where you must decide if anything about Cerberus is worth salvaging. One of those choices would end with Miranda taking over, supposedly.

I don't hear people say Miranda ought to be the Shadow Broker a whole lot. The last time I heard it I think Ieldra said it, and I think he was just saying that Miranda would have fit the role better without having to transform her character as drastically. Or something.

Oh, and yes. She should be on the Normandy. At least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. All the ME2 characters deserve to be on the Normandy, at least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. Why? Because the other romances get it. EQUALITY, THAT'S WHY.

Thank you Nightwriter...this was the kind of post I was waiting for.......you have me thinking now....I am going to take a moment with this if I may...you have very good points and have me re-evaluating my own perceptions on the whole situation...will get back shortly.

[in it for the lolz]

It's better to have Miranda on your team then the Bule Stalker.

[StayFrosty05]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

We want her on Cronos Station because she was the second-of-command of Cerberus and she has story relevance during that mission. Doing the Tuchanka arc? Bring Mordin; relevant. Doing the quarian arc? Bring Legion; relevant. Taking down Cerberus? HMMMMMM.

Point taken Nightwriter...considering Tuchunka and Rannoch arcs and taking them into the equasion, obviously BW did see fit to re-introduce ME2 characters in relevant situations and from that perspective, yes, BW dropped the ball with Miranda....Miranda should have been present in some capacity, we are obviously never allowed to have any ME2 exclusive cast on our team in ME3....but instead of rehashing her sister issues, her scene's should have been set with relevence on Cronos instead...a much better fit for her character and background.

Nightwriter wrote...
And do not tell me Miranda's involvement in taking down Cerberus would only have appealed to her fans. The woman was almost religiously loyal to Cerberus. She has now lost her religion. Found herself in the wrong. That's gotta be juicy to more than just fans.

Sorry, I'm not really sold on this one...but my personal opinions on such a matter are not relevant to the discussion.

Nightwriter wrote...
I am neutral on the matter of Miranda taking TIM's place, but I think it basically comes from a desire for Cerberus to not get completely fictionally assassinated. That is, some players saw value in Cerberus in ME2, disliked what BioWare did with it in ME3, and perhaps also think it's lame that the moral ambiguity of Cerberus was thrown out completely and replaced with lolcrazyevil. So what I hear sometimes is a desire for there to be some kind of choice at the end of Cronos Station, where you must decide if anything about Cerberus is worth salvaging. One of those choices would end with Miranda taking over, supposedly.

Though I happily despise Cerberus...I do agree there was an extremely ridiculous assassination of the organization and tIM in ME3....the 'lolcrazyevil' has been a huge disappointment and I am still left wondering why that was done...and I guess if you play a Shep who does trust Miranda, she would seem a good step in to the newly available position.

Nightwriter wrote...
I don't hear people say Miranda ought to be the Shadow Broker a whole lot. The last time I heard it I think Ieldra said it, and I think he was just saying that Miranda would have fit the role better without having to transform her character as drastically. Or something.

I have just seen it said a few times...maybe just running into Ieldra's posts, plus a friend I PM who feels Miranda could fit the role....maybe a lot less prevelant than I realized.

Nightwriter wrote...
Oh, and yes. She should be on the Normandy. At least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. All the ME2 characters deserve to be on the Normandy, at least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. Why? Because the other romances get it. EQUALITY, THAT'S WHY.

Love scene...absolutely....I would love all the LI's to get fair and reasonable content...no stake in it myself, my Sheps single...I used to regret his single status, that I couldn't find someone I would like as his LI, but after watching all the butchering in ME3 I am left feeling relieved my Shep remained single.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Given the prominent role Miranda had regarding Cerberus and her entire plot arc consisting of concealing herself from them. It made little to no sense she would not come aboard the Normandy, especially when the plot shifted became Cerberus centric. Of all the characters in ME2, her absence was by far the most jarring simply because the justification was flimsy at best, nonsensical otherwise.

What bothers me is BioWare advertised a trilogy and did near everything possible to contradict making one. We spent a whole game with these characters and the majority receive barely more than footnote. Never mind the character assassination in some cases (Jacob).

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...
Well it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

We want her on Cronos Station because she was the second-of-command of Cerberus and she has story relevance during that mission. Doing the Tuchanka arc? Bring Mordin; relevant. Doing the quarian arc? Bring Legion; relevant. Taking down Cerberus? HMMMMMM.

And do not tell me Miranda's involvement in taking down Cerberus would only have appealed to her fans. The woman was almost religiously loyal to Cerberus. She has now lost her religion. Found herself in the wrong. That's gotta be juicy to more than just fans.

I am neutral on the matter of Miranda taking TIM's place, but I think it basically comes from a desire for Cerberus to not get completely fictionally assassinated. That is, some players saw value in Cerberus in ME2, disliked what BioWare did with it in ME3, and perhaps also think it's lame that the moral ambiguity of Cerberus was thrown out completely and replaced with lolcrazyevil. So what I hear sometimes is a desire for there to be some kind of choice at the end of Cronos Station, where you must decide if anything about Cerberus is worth salvaging. One of those choices would end with Miranda taking over, supposedly.

I don't hear people say Miranda ought to be the Shadow Broker a whole lot. The last time I heard it I think Ieldra said it, and I think he was just saying that Miranda would have fit the role better without having to transform her character as drastically. Or something.

Oh, and yes. She should be on the Normandy. At least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. All the ME2 characters deserve to be on the Normandy, at least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. Why? Because the other romances get it. EQUALITY, THAT'S WHY.

Thank you, Nightwriter, for sparing me the effort to write this up. Exaclty these are the reasons.

As a further comment: Yes, it was I who said Miranda would've been better suited to be the SB because she comes with the qualifications for high level intelligence work and didn't need to be character-assassinated to fit the role. But given how little the role amounts to in ME3, it doesn't bother me much anymore, at least not for Miranda's sake. It's more that I object to twisting a character beyond recognition to suit a rule she doesn't fit just because she's the lead writer's pet. 

As for Miranda being on the team, as a rule I'm fine, actually more than fine, with the idea of her having an offscreen story arc running parallel to Shepard's, with meetings at relevant points. Only she should've been on the team on Cronos, for the reasons already given. It would not have just been necessary and fitting to make her story arc end there, but beautiful, seeing her walk into the place where we see her first at the start of ME2, with a somewhat changed mindset, reflecting on whether or not there's anything about Cerberus worth salvaging.  

More than a year ago, right after the script was leaked, I wrote a dialogue between Shepard and Miranda at Cronos. I take it as an indication of how fitting it was that a gaming site thought it was from the leaked script:

Shepard and Miranda are exploring the Illusive Man's base. All defenders have been killed. In a large room at the center - or top - of the station, covered by a large transparent dome through which the sky can be seen, they find the Illusive Man's old chair, surrounded by the u-shaped holodesk controlling Cerberus' computer network. They proceed to hack it to get at the data within. Miranda has picked up a datapad, apparently lost in thought.

Shepard: What have you found?
Miranda: The old Cerberus manifesto.
Miranda (in a choking voice): Damn it.
Shepard: What is it?
Miranda: I told you I joined Cerberus to protect my sister. This....is why I stayed with them.
Shepard: I've never read it.
Miranda: I was...captured by a dream. To illuminate the dark places, to search out the knowledge out there to benefit humanity. That's what I could get behind, a proper use for my genetic enhancements.
Miranda: And if we had to compete with other species - well, I've always liked a challenge.
Miranda (thoughtful): Was it ever *his* dream? Or was I duped right from the start?
Shepard: I don't know. Perhaps we'll never know. But I do know that you don't need to justify your enhancements.
Miranda (smiles): I know, now. And you had a part in making me believe it.
Miranda (more thoughtfully): But am I naive that I still want this? That I want to continue what he betrayed?
Shepard: Don't you think there's some knowledge better left alone?
Miranda: No. Not even in the face of....all this. What have you been fighting for after all? Wasn't it the knowledge we need to survive?
[insert the following lines if romanced]
Shepard: And for you.
Miranda (exasperated smile): Don't be absurd. You'd have done fine without me.
Shepard: Duty and obligation are dry masters. I don't know if I could've done all this without knowing you were out there, somewhere. Didn't even matter if I was never to see you again. Just knowing was enough.
Miranda: You're a hopeless romantic, Commander.
Shepard (grins): Someone has to be, Ms. Lawson.
*they kiss*
*some time later*
[end romance insertion]
Shepard: So...what would you do with all this?
Miranda: You know what's infuriating? That everything we....they...ever achieved could've been done without all this horror.
Miranda (looks around): I'll copy everything we find here. I don't know what I'll do with it, but I won't let it go to waste.

That we never got something like this is, for several reasons I'll go into in another thread, the biggest disappointment in ME3 for me personally (after the EC saved the ending).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 février 2013 - 09:56 .

[Nightwriter]

Ieldra2 wrote...

More than a year ago, right after the script was leaked, I wrote a dialogue between Shepard and Miranda at Cronos. I take it as an indication of how fitting it was that a gaming site thought it was from the leaked script:

Shepard and Miranda are exploring the Illusive Man's base. All defenders have been killed. In a large room at the center - or top - of the station, covered by a large transparent dome through which the sky can be seen, they find the Illusive Man's old chair, surrounded by the u-shaped holodesk controlling Cerberus' computer network. They proceed to hack it to get at the data within. Miranda has picked up a datapad, apparently lost in thought.

Shepard: What have you found?
Miranda: The old Cerberus manifesto.
Miranda (in a choking voice): Damn it.
Shepard: What is it?
Miranda: I told you I joined Cerberus to protect my sister. This....is why I stayed with them.
Shepard: I've never read it.
Miranda: I was...captured by a dream. To illuminate the dark places, to search out the knowledge out there to benefit humanity. That's what I could get behind, a proper use for my genetic enhancements.
Miranda: And if we had to compete with other species - well, I've always liked a challenge.
Miranda (thoughtful): Was it ever *his* dream? Or was I duped right from the start?
Shepard: I don't know. Perhaps we'll never know. But I do know that you don't need to justify your enhancements.
Miranda (smiles): I know, now. And you had a part in making me believe it.
Miranda (more thoughtfully): But am I naive that I still want this? That I want to continue what he betrayed?
Shepard: Don't you think there's some knowledge better left alone?
Miranda: No. Not even in the face of....all this. What have you been fighting for after all? Wasn't it the knowledge we need to survive?
[insert the following lines if romanced]
Shepard: And for you.
Miranda (exasperated smile): Don't be absurd. You'd have done fine without me.
Shepard: Duty and obligation are dry masters. I don't know if I could've done all this without knowing you were out there, somewhere. Didn't even matter if I was never to see you again. Just knowing was enough.
Miranda: You're a hopeless romantic, Commander.
Shepard (grins): Someone has to be, Ms. Lawson.
*they kiss*
*some time later*
[end romance insertion]
Shepard: So...what would you do with all this?
Miranda: You know what's infuriating? That everything we....they...ever achieved could've been done without all this horror.
Miranda (looks around): I'll copy everything we find here. I don't know what I'll do with it, but I won't let it go to waste.

That we never got something like this is, for several reasons I'll go into in another thread, the biggest disappointment in ME3 for me personally (after the EC saved the ending).

OH GOD THAT WOULD'VE MADE ME SO HAPPY.

Why, BioWare? Why?

[Clayless]

samgurl775 wrote...

Because you spend over half the game fighting Cerberus, and she's a former high ranking officer. I honestly feel like out of all your squadmates she had the biggest reason to be with you in ME3. She tells you herself that she's on the run from everyone - what safer place is there than the Normandy?

This.

 Why Garrus gets on the Normandy, despite not being plot important in the slightest, is beyond me.

[Sundance31us]

Miranda on the Normandy would have been nice, she could have set the record straight with the VS regarding Shepard and Cerberus.

[StayFrosty05]

Robosexual wrote...

samgurl775 wrote...

Because you spend over half the game fighting Cerberus, and she's a former high ranking officer. I honestly feel like out of all your squadmates she had the biggest reason to be with you in ME3. She tells you herself that she's on the run from everyone - what safer place is there than the Normandy?

This.

 Why Garrus gets on the Normandy, despite not being plot important in the slightest, is beyond me.

Because Garrus is awesome....

Plus he gives you an option other than the crazy Blue Chick for someone Shep can confide in.

Modifié par StayFrosty05, 06 février 2013 - 11:18 .

[Han Shot First]

I don't think Miranda should have been brought back on the Normandy, but she should have had a better story arc.

In a game where Cerberus emerges as the indoctrinated pawns of the Reapers, and with TIM and Kai Leng as two of the game's primary villains...Miranda is off on a quest to find her sister.

Galactic civilization is being systematically destroyed and her former employeers are aiding it, yet Miranda is tied up with family matters.

[o Ventus]

Yannkee wrote...

 Because I want more conversations. I want to hear her comments about what is going on. Because she's one of the best squadmate my Shepard can have, and a real asset to fight Cerberus and the Reapers. I want to see her in combat and interact with the other characters. And I want a real romance scene and romance conversations like the other squadmates.

So no it's not just because she's my favorite character/LI.

This. 

Also because I hate unwanted potential, and my God was Miranda in ME3 nothing but that.

[fiendishchicken]

Han Shot First wrote...

I don't think Miranda should have been brought back on the Normandy, but she should have had a better story arc.

In a game where Cerberus emerges as the indoctrinated pawns of the Reapers, and with TIM and Kai Leng as two of the game's primary villains...Miranda is off on a quest to find her sister.

Galactic civilization is being systematically destroyed and her former employeers are aiding it, yet Miranda is tied up with family matters.

It's very jarring and disturbing to Miranda fans everywhere. I personally feel that Miranda was the biggest missed opportunity in the game.

There really is no reason for her to have had such an important role in the series up to that point, and then have her cast aside because among the writers, while no one particularly disliked her (to the best of my knowledge), no one was really an advocate for her. That's why she got handed off to the new guy.

[Hazegurl]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

I have seen people repeatedly saying Miranda should be on the ME3 Normandy...

....or Miranda should be a squaddie on Cronos...

....or Miranda should takes tIM's place...

....or Miranda should be the SB...

....and these people seem to feel this is beyond "Because she's my favorite character or LI"....and I am beginning to wonder what the reasoning is behind these views...please explain?

I love Miranda and would have liked her on the Normandy because she's a good fighter and I liked her conversations with Shep in ME2. I even like that she was b*tchy when you first meet her although by her first convo with TIM she obviously respected Shep. although I romance Kaidan in ME3 I probably would have had a playthrough of keeping my romance with Miranda if she were a squad member. i also would have taken her on the major Cerberus missions as I think her unique dialouge could have been more informative.

[OdanUrr]

Considering we spend around 90% of the game fighting Cerberus forces it'd have been nice to have a former Cerberus agent aboard the Normandy to shed some light on their actions and tactics.

That and she was my LI in ME2.

[Yuqi]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

AARRGGHHH!!...eye bleach...NOW!....Thanks Yuqi.........I just refreshed the page and got it in the face with that pic.......please, please, please tell me it really isn't as simple as that....

It really is that simple. She wouldn't be nearly as popular, if not for her  'assets'. Heck, the split with the Mirimancers, is what caused: the lockdown of the Character and Romance forum.

[fiendishchicken]

Sundance31us wrote...

Miranda on the Normandy would have been nice, she could have set the record straight with the VS regarding Shepard and Cerberus.

Shepard shooting Ashley on the coup does that just fine.

I still would have loved to see her get shot down over Cerberus, and seeing that Shepard is no longer open territory because he's with Miranda.

[fiendishchicken]

Yuqi wrote...

It really is that simple. She wouldn't be nearly as popular, if not for her  'assets'. Heck, the split with the Mirimancers, is what caused: the lockdown of the Character and Romance forum.

Do you even know what the disagreement was about? It had nothing to do with Miranda. Get your facts straight.

[o Ventus]

Yuqi wrote...

StayFrosty05 wrote...

AARRGGHHH!!...eye bleach...NOW!....Thanks Yuqi.........I just refreshed the page and got it in the face with that pic.......please, please, please tell me it really isn't as simple as that....

It really is that simple. She wouldn't be nearly as popular, if not for her  'assets'. Heck, the split with the Mirimancers, is what caused: the lockdown of the Character and Romance forum.

Well done. You've successfully made a giant ass of yourself. I would give you a medal, but I don't reward stupidity.

[Yuqi]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

It really is that simple. She wouldn't be nearly as popular, if not for her  'assets'. Heck, the split with the Mirimancers, is what caused: the lockdown of the Character and Romance forum.

Do you even know what the disagreement was about? It had nothing to do with Miranda. Get your facts straight.

From what I read: it was about  one side not liking how some talked about Miranda ('dat ass', and the other side seeing nothing wrong with it, and then it turned intp personal attacks(between members via PM).

[OdanUrr]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

Miranda on the Normandy would have been nice, she could have set the record straight with the VS regarding Shepard and Cerberus.

Shepard shooting Ashley on the coup does that just fine.

I'm sensing some anger issues... 

[Yuqi]

o Ventus wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

StayFrosty05 wrote...

AARRGGHHH!!...eye bleach...NOW!....Thanks Yuqi.........I just refreshed the page and got it in the face with that pic.......please, please, please tell me it really isn't as simple as that....

It really is that simple. She wouldn't be nearly as popular, if not for her  'assets'. Heck, the split with the Mirimancers, is what caused: the lockdown of the Character and Romance forum.

Well done. You've successfully made a giant ass of yourself. I would give you a medal, but I don't reward stupidity.

It's still better than the stupidity of  some of the Mirimancers: who got the forum locked down, and ruined it for everyone else.

Modifié par Yuqi, 06 février 2013 - 12:03 .

[o Ventus]

Yuqi wrote...

It's still better than the stupidity of the Mirimancers: who got the forum locked down, and ruiend it for everyone else.

1. At least you implicitly admitted to bein an idiot.

2. And this has to do with Miranda's character... How? If you wanted to attack her fans, you could have done that. No need to go into a thread about the character itself and make sweeping generalizations, as if fans of Miranda were the only people to become entangled in that incident.

[OdanUrr]

Let's get back on topic, gents.

[Mavqt]

OdanUrr wrote...

Let's get back on topic, gents.

How can she be on Cronos or the Normandy when she's dead. :D:D:D:D:D