217 réponses à ce sujet

[MattFini]

I advocate Miranda because she really should have been a permanent squadmate in ME3.

Really, SOMEONE from ME2 should've been a full-time squaddie. Miranda isn't my favorite ME2 character - not by a long shot - but I do very much like her. For me personally, I would've advocated Jack or Grunt, but those are just my personal preferences.

Miranda would FIT into the storyline for this game. OP, you can downplay and marginalize what her arc "might've been" had she been present but that's unfair. The writers could've - and should've - made it work.

Miranda can see the err of her ways at the end of ME2 in terms of her blind devotion of Cerberus but they could've done so much more with her.

Also, it would've been great to see her vie with Liara for control of Shepard's old cabin.

[AnubisOnly]

And I'm still (from very beginning) surprised that Miranda is not in the ME3 squad...

Modifié par Lucas1987Dion, 07 février 2013 - 12:12 .

[MattFini]

Lucas1987Dion wrote...

And I'm still (from very beginning) surprised that Miranda is not in the ME3 squad...

Me too. I never gave it a second thought. 

Not until a few days before the game came out and I found out the underwhelming squad selection. 

[StayFrosty05]

MattFini wrote...

Lucas1987Dion wrote...

And I'm still (from very beginning) surprised that Miranda is not in the ME3 squad...

Me too. I never gave it a second thought. 

Not until a few days before the game came out and I found out the underwhelming squad selection. 

But the question is, why would a pro Alliance Shep allow Miranda on board as a Squad member?....Mine doesn't even have her loyalty (sided with Jack).

[Steelcan]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

MattFini wrote...

Lucas1987Dion wrote...

And I'm still (from very beginning) surprised that Miranda is not in the ME3 squad...

Me too. I never gave it a second thought. 

Not until a few days before the game came out and I found out the underwhelming squad selection. 

But the question is, why would a pro Alliance Shep allow Miranda on board as a Squad member?....Mine doesn't even have her loyalty (sided with Jack).

. Because she's an inside source on Cerberus willing to work with you

[spirosz]

Steelcan wrote...

StayFrosty05 wrote...

MattFini wrote...

Lucas1987Dion wrote...

And I'm still (from very beginning) surprised that Miranda is not in the ME3 squad...

Me too. I never gave it a second thought. 

Not until a few days before the game came out and I found out the underwhelming squad selection. 

But the question is, why would a pro Alliance Shep allow Miranda on board as a Squad member?....Mine doesn't even have her loyalty (sided with Jack).

. Because she's an inside source on Cerberus willing to work with you

But, but... people would rather have their buddies to kick-ass! 

[MattFini]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

But the question is, why would a pro Alliance Shep allow Miranda on board as a Squad member?....Mine doesn't even have her loyalty (sided with Jack).

Because she still worked with Shepard to stop the Collectors. 

Regardless of her loyalty, she'd still be an effective ally pretty early on since TIM gets in your way right at the start of the game.  

[o Ventus]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

But the question is, why would a pro Alliance Shep allow Miranda on board as a Squad member?....Mine doesn't even have her loyalty (sided with Jack).

The same reason a pro-Alliance Shepard would be willing to work with the various ex-Cerberus war assets that can be obtained. There's a reason they're called "ex"-Cerberus.

Unless your pro-Alliance Shepard is also an idiot, he or she wouldn't be passing up a boon like Miranda because of clashing opinions.

[StayFrosty05]

spirosz wrote...


But, but... people would rather have their buddies to kick-ass! 

Don't make assumptions....I have one squaddie I loved go through to ME3 with me...sure I would have liked certain ME2 squaddies on my ME3 team, I miss them....but I am not pounding BW over their loss.

I did not post this topic to troll....I posted it out of curiousity at the passion people have demonstrated about Miranda's place in ME3....Some of the answers that have sprung up have certainly given me pause for thought and I see sense in the arguments...but that doesn'tr mean I necessarily agfree with every point expressed here, one I continuously get stuck on is why the heck would a very anti Cerberus Shep allow her on the Normandy.

[Steelcan]

Because she isn't with Cerberus anymore! She's working against them rather openly.

[o Ventus]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

 why the heck would a very anti Cerberus Shep allow her on the Normandy.

This has been answered already. Numerous times.

It doesn't matter how anti-Cerberus Shepard may be. In an interstellar war against omnicidal cuttlefish robots, you're going to want all the allies and firepower you can get. Denying Miranda simply because of her PAST (read: ex-Cerberus) affiliation is just stupid. It isn't like Miranda joined Cerberus because she's a raging xenophobe (read: she isn't). Same goes for all of the ex-Cerberus assets.

[Knight of Seven]

I'm glad she's wasn't on the Normandy EDI's a much better candidate for anything Cereberus related. Jack also would of been great since she hated Cereberus from the start. Watching Miranda die at the end Sanctuary is far more satisfying it's a shame I couldn't put a bullet through her skull myself oh well beggars can't be choosers.

[ForThessia]

Knight of Seven wrote...

I'm glad she's wasn't on the Normandy EDI's a much better candidate for anything Cereberus related. Jack also would of been great since she hated Cereberus from the start. Watching Miranda die at the end Sanctuary is far more satisfying it's a shame I couldn't put a bullet through her skull myself oh well beggars can't be choosers.

Translation- "I don't like Miranda so she doesn't belong on the Normandy."

[themikefest]

Knight of Seven wrote...

I'm glad she's wasn't on the Normandy EDI's a much better candidate for anything Cereberus related. Jack also would of been great since she hated Cereberus from the start. Watching Miranda die at the end Sanctuary is far more satisfying it's a shame I couldn't put a bullet through her skull myself oh well beggars can't be choosers.

the robot is a waste of a squadmate. All it wants to do is arouse Joker.

Miranda is very skilled with powers that effect all enemies

[StayFrosty05]

Steelcan wrote...

Because she isn't with Cerberus anymore! She's working against them rather openly.

What needs to be remembered Steelcan...her change of alliegence is new news to a Shep who rarely spoke with her and didn't have her with him when he destroyed the baby Reaper....but then again taking BW's RP destruction into account and us not really knowing who our Sheps are anymore, everything gets tossed out the Airlock.

But as it stands, that is a lot of trust to put into someone based soley on their word...the only time in game that it becomes absolutely apparent that Miranda is working against Cerberus is on Sanctuary. ...before that it is simply a matter of trust between Shep and Miranda...I guess I am saying I would need something more from her than a simple "Hey Shep, I told tIM to stick it" for what little left of my RP still exists to convince my Shep that she is above board....His in the middle of a war for the Galaxy, he cannot risk in any way the inner safety of the Normandy...a Cerberus mole onboard could have devastating consequences....you see what I am getting at now?...Then again I still think collecting Jack in ME2 was insane...an unstable powerful Psychotic Biotic aboard the Normandy.......but that's me and how I see things.

I am sold on Cronos....reading these posts...I agree Miranda should have been there and I also now agree her story arc in ME3 was a ridiculously sad event and understandably very disappointing for people who like Miranda, especially those who have her as their LI....dumping her kills her?.......Miranda's made of sterner stuff than that.

[spirosz]

That's the thing Frosty, a lot of us who saw the potential, are saddened by what is shown in game, by either priority budget, limitations or too many characters... and I think it's a bit of all three. As Night wrote in another thread I believe, imagine the Genophage arc without Mordin or Wrex, what do you have? You don't have "investment", if you feel what I'm saying, where as Cerberus and the ideals, shined from Miranda for a lot of us.

Modifié par spirosz, 07 février 2013 - 02:16 .

[Baranus33]

if she is trying to be safe and run from Cerberus you would think teaming up with Shep on the Normandy would classify as protection. Both Jack and Miranda would have been could candidates from squadmates and another biotic would spice things up

[StayFrosty05]

spirosz wrote...

That's the thing Frosty, a lot of us who saw the potential, are saddened by what is shown in game, by either priority budget, limitations or too many characters... and I think it's a bit of all three. As Night wrote in another thread I believe, imagine the Genophage arc without Mordin or Wrex, what do you have? You don't have "investment", if you feel what I'm saying, where as Cerberus and the ideals, shined from Miranda for a lot of us.

I do understand that Spirosz...thus why I took an interest enough to ask and abhore trollers like knight of seven above.....Sadly ME3 is rife with character assassinations....I see my beloved Kasumi transform into an angry, blaming coward, see Legion retcon all his great words from ME2, see Thane stand around like a twit instead of pulling the trigger on Kai Lame....it's heart breaking....we grow to love certain characters and then see them get torn to shreds....though the majority of my sympathy goes to those who liked Jacob and romanced him....

I honestly don't believe budget is to blame at all or too many characters...it was seen fit with some of them at least to give them fitting positions, such as Mordin and Wrex...or at least fitting dialogs, such as Grunt. Miranda belonged on Cronos, she didn't NEED to be a squaddie to do so (as no other ME2 character gets that privilage either), but she belonged there in her capacity as the token we get from all our ME2 squaddies....Miranda's capacity should have been up there with Mordins and Legions in the context of impact....without the dieing bit of course........Basically it came down to bad and lazy writing....Miranda didn't need another sister arc, Kasumi didn't need to be the angry coward, Jacob didn't need to cheat, etc....simple differences in dialog and in Miranda's case, placement, could have and would have made all the difference.

Modifié par StayFrosty05, 07 février 2013 - 02:38 .

[spirosz]

Well, when I say budget, I'm specifically pointing my finger to Diana Allers and the waste of money on her, instead of developing said characters, Miranda, Jack, Ashley, whoever.

[StayFrosty05]

spirosz wrote...

Well, when I say budget, I'm specifically pointing my finger to Diana Allers and the waste of money on her, instead of developing said characters, Miranda, Jack, Ashley, whoever.

I have a feeling you and I may agree very strongly about Allers........the potato was a very, very bad idea....

[David7204]

Okay, some of these complaints are just nonsense.

Kasumi is an 'angry blaming coward'? She says literally one line, and is perfectly friendly and willing to work with Shepard afterwards.

And again we have this assumption that if Miranda if brought along for a Cerberus mission, why, the story will automatically write itself! Character development and a satisfying plot appear out of thin air!

No. They don't.

[Sebby]

Having Miranda "daddy issues" Lawson instead of the sex robot would have made Cronus slightly better.

[fiendishchicken]

David7204 wrote...

Okay, some of these complaints are just nonsense.

Kasumi is an 'angry blaming coward'? She says literally one line, and is perfectly friendly and willing to work with Shepard afterwards.

And again we have this assumption that if Miranda if brought along for a Cerberus mission, why, the story will automatically write itself! Character development and a satisfying plot appear out of thin air!

No. They don't.

More than enough people have written perfect storylines for Miranda post-Sanctuary while she is on Cronos with Shepard.

It's disturbing when BW doesn't see that.

Go back in your hole.

[David7204]

Really? I'd be delighted to look at several of them.

[fiendishchicken]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Well it's pretty obvious, isn't it?

We want her on Cronos Station because she was the second-of-command of Cerberus and she has story relevance during that mission. Doing the Tuchanka arc? Bring Mordin; relevant. Doing the quarian arc? Bring Legion; relevant. Taking down Cerberus? HMMMMMM.

And do not tell me Miranda's involvement in taking down Cerberus would only have appealed to her fans. The woman was almost religiously loyal to Cerberus. She has now lost her religion. Found herself in the wrong. That's gotta be juicy to more than just fans.

I am neutral on the matter of Miranda taking TIM's place, but I think it basically comes from a desire for Cerberus to not get completely fictionally assassinated. That is, some players saw value in Cerberus in ME2, disliked what BioWare did with it in ME3, and perhaps also think it's lame that the moral ambiguity of Cerberus was thrown out completely and replaced with lolcrazyevil. So what I hear sometimes is a desire for there to be some kind of choice at the end of Cronos Station, where you must decide if anything about Cerberus is worth salvaging. One of those choices would end with Miranda taking over, supposedly.

I don't hear people say Miranda ought to be the Shadow Broker a whole lot. The last time I heard it I think Ieldra said it, and I think he was just saying that Miranda would have fit the role better without having to transform her character as drastically. Or something.

Oh, and yes. She should be on the Normandy. At least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. All the ME2 characters deserve to be on the Normandy, at least once, before the final battle, for a love scene. Why? Because the other romances get it. EQUALITY, THAT'S WHY.

Thank you, Nightwriter, for sparing me the effort to write this up. Exaclty these are the reasons.

As a further comment: Yes, it was I who said Miranda would've been better suited to be the SB because she comes with the qualifications for high level intelligence work and didn't need to be character-assassinated to fit the role. But given how little the role amounts to in ME3, it doesn't bother me much anymore, at least not for Miranda's sake. It's more that I object to twisting a character beyond recognition to suit a rule she doesn't fit just because she's the lead writer's pet. 

As for Miranda being on the team, as a rule I'm fine, actually more than fine, with the idea of her having an offscreen story arc running parallel to Shepard's, with meetings at relevant points. Only she should've been on the team on Cronos, for the reasons already given. It would not have just been necessary and fitting to make her story arc end there, but beautiful, seeing her walk into the place where we see her first at the start of ME2, with a somewhat changed mindset, reflecting on whether or not there's anything about Cerberus worth salvaging.  

More than a year ago, right after the script was leaked, I wrote a dialogue between Shepard and Miranda at Cronos. I take it as an indication of how fitting it was that a gaming site thought it was from the leaked script:

Shepard and Miranda are exploring the Illusive Man's base. All defenders have been killed. In a large room at the center - or top - of the station, covered by a large transparent dome through which the sky can be seen, they find the Illusive Man's old chair, surrounded by the u-shaped holodesk controlling Cerberus' computer network. They proceed to hack it to get at the data within. Miranda has picked up a datapad, apparently lost in thought.

Shepard: What have you found?
Miranda: The old Cerberus manifesto.
Miranda (in a choking voice): Damn it.
Shepard: What is it?
Miranda: I told you I joined Cerberus to protect my sister. This....is why I stayed with them.
Shepard: I've never read it.
Miranda: I was...captured by a dream. To illuminate the dark places, to search out the knowledge out there to benefit humanity. That's what I could get behind, a proper use for my genetic enhancements.
Miranda: And if we had to compete with other species - well, I've always liked a challenge.
Miranda (thoughtful): Was it ever *his* dream? Or was I duped right from the start?
Shepard: I don't know. Perhaps we'll never know. But I do know that you don't need to justify your enhancements.
Miranda (smiles): I know, now. And you had a part in making me believe it.
Miranda (more thoughtfully): But am I naive that I still want this? That I want to continue what he betrayed?
Shepard: Don't you think there's some knowledge better left alone?
Miranda: No. Not even in the face of....all this. What have you been fighting for after all? Wasn't it the knowledge we need to survive?
[insert the following lines if romanced]
Shepard: And for you.
Miranda (exasperated smile): Don't be absurd. You'd have done fine without me.
Shepard: Duty and obligation are dry masters. I don't know if I could've done all this without knowing you were out there, somewhere. Didn't even matter if I was never to see you again. Just knowing was enough.
Miranda: You're a hopeless romantic, Commander.
Shepard (grins): Someone has to be, Ms. Lawson.
*they kiss*
*some time later*
[end romance insertion]
Shepard: So...what would you do with all this?
Miranda: You know what's infuriating? That everything we....they...ever achieved could've been done without all this horror.
Miranda (looks around): I'll copy everything we find here. I don't know what I'll do with it, but I won't let it go to waste.

That we never got something like this is, for several reasons I'll go into in another thread, the biggest disappointment in ME3 for me personally (after the EC saved the ending).

Here you go.

Look them up on Fanfiction.net.

Or go ask any Miranda fan in the Miranda thread.

Or any person with common sense.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 07 février 2013 - 06:19 .