217 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Well from a purely cynical perspective, they probably thought people wouldn't care as long as there was another "hot" character to replace her.

[Belisarius25]

Robosexual wrote...

Doesn't really make much sense, espcially as both Garrus and Tali are optional in one game and easier to be killed than her.

Garrus/Tali are enormously popular too, though, probably up there with Liara if I had to guess. Tali's ME3 appearances are pretty limited though, especially if you didn't romance her. Garrus basically got upgraded to "your best bro no matter what" starting in ME2, so it wasn't too suprising it continued in ME3.

Modifié par Belisarius25, 10 février 2013 - 03:03 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Well from a purely cynical perspective, they probably thought people wouldn't care as long as there was another "hot" character to replace her.

I could believe that of an EA executive, but not of someone involved in the creation of the game.

[jtav]

Even Casey? I still don't think he has the foggiest idea why people like her.

[CynicalShep]

Rhayak wrote...

StayFrosty05 wrote...

I have seen people repeatedly saying Miranda should be on the ME3 Normandy...

....or Miranda should be a squaddie on Cronos...

....or Miranda should takes tIM's place...

....or Miranda should be the SB...

....and these people seem to feel this is beyond "Because she's my favorite character or LI"....and I am beginning to wonder what the reasoning is behind these views...please explain?

To OP

Because for every single character in ME3, there's people whining to see more of him/her/it. Reapers included. They can walltext a whole galaxy of reasons, but there really aren't many layers to it (in Miranda's case, the reason is usually possession of boobs).

Other than that, i think the availability as a squadmate depended almost entirely on fan feedback.

Personally, i always found Miranda to be pretty dull.

Which applies to every character in the MEU. All female NPCs have human-like boobs. With men it's probably either abs or asses. So, I know what we need. More linear shooting missions with more Cerberus and Reaper troops. Amrite?

[Lawrence0294]

jtav wrote...

Even Casey? I still don't think he has the foggiest idea why people like her.

Well......it seems a lot of people think people like her because "yay dat ass".
Which is kinda sad since the majority of her fans don't really care about that aspect and like her for much more complexe reaons..
But what can we do eh?

[fiendishchicken]

Damn, this thread is still alive? I gave up on it like 3 days ago...

Lawrence0294 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Even Casey? I still don't think he has the foggiest idea why people like her.

Well......it seems a lot of people think people like her because "yay dat ass".
Which is kinda sad since the majority of her fans don't really care about that aspect and like her for much more complexe reaons..
But what can we do eh?

It's especially irritating when people accuse you of only liking her ass. Most people don't even see past her appearance.

As for wonder boy Hudson, he pretty much stated in ME2 that Miranda wasn't supposed to be more than a temptress, a fling, in regards to romance.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 10 février 2013 - 03:53 .

[Ieldra]

fiendishchicken wrote...
Damn, this thread is still alive? I gave up on it like 3 days ago...

Lawrence0294 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Even Casey? I still don't think he has the foggiest idea why people like her.

Well......it seems a lot of people think people like her because "yay dat ass".
Which is kinda sad since the majority of her fans don't really care about that aspect and like her for much more complexe reaons..
But what can we do eh?

It's especially irritating when people accuse you of only liking her ass. Most people don't even see past her appearance.

As for wonder boy Hudson, he pretty much stated in ME2 that Miranda wasn't supposed to be more than a temptress, a fling, in regards to romance.

He did? Hmph. Perhaps it was he who was behind all the traditionalism, the neo-luddite crap and the feel-good morality. It seems out of character for Mac Walters to not understand why and how people can like a character like her, considering TIM is one of his favorite characters and he wrote him rather well in ME:Evolution.

[CynicalShep]

@ Ieldra2

"For a perfect playthrough please select the upper options in the dialogue tree"

[fiendishchicken]

Ieldra2 wrote...
He did? Hmph. Perhaps it was he who was behind all the traditionalism, the neo-luddite crap and the feel-good morality. It seems out of character for Mac Walters to not understand why and how people can like a character like her, considering TIM is one of his favorite characters and he wrote him rather well in ME:Evolution.

I don't think it was all that. You're looking into it a bit much. She was, in Hudson's eyes, just there (romance-wise) to give Shepard a stress relief. He was never supposed to fall in love with her. 

[Ieldra]

CynicalShep wrote...
@ Ieldra2
"For a perfect playthrough please select the upper options in the dialogue tree"

Don't tell me that's a Casey Hudson quote....

@fiendishchicken:
It's just that I can easily see how someone who doesn't understand why people can come to like Miranda beyond "stress relief" would think having that other stuff in the game is good.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 février 2013 - 05:15 .

[Caihn]

fiendishchicken wrote...

She was, in Hudson's eyes, just there (romance-wise) to give Shepard a stress relief. He was never supposed to fall in love with her. 

If it was the case he wouldn't have allowed such emotional scenes between Miranda and Shepard in ME2 and ME3.

[CynicalShep]

Ieldra2 wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...
@ Ieldra2
"For a perfect playthrough please select the upper options in the dialogue tree"

Don't tell me that's a Casey Hudson quote....

If only. He'd never be able to live it down.
It's the truth, though

Modifié par CynicalShep, 10 février 2013 - 05:18 .

[o Ventus]

Robosexual wrote...

Doesn't really make much sense, espcially as both Garrus and Tali are optional in one game and easier to be killed than her.

Fan demand. That's literall the only thing keeping them in the squad. Tali wasn't even supposed to be in the squad, but fan outcry due to the initial announcement made Bioware change their minds. I have a screenshot of the post that confirms it.

[Caihn]

o Ventus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Doesn't really make much sense, espcially as both Garrus and Tali are optional in one game and easier to be killed than her.

Fan demand. That's literall the only thing keeping them in the squad. Tali wasn't even supposed to be in the squad, but fan outcry due to the initial announcement made Bioware change their minds. I have a screenshot of the post that confirms it.

There was a time the Miranda fanbase had the potential to do the same. Unfortunately most of fans who were asking her return in the squad have vanished from the forums.
The good old times ...

[fiendishchicken]

Yannkee wrote...
There was a time the Miranda fanbase had the potential to do the same. Unfortunately most of fans who were asking her return in the squad have vanished from the forums.
The good old times ...

Really? I never knew the Miranda fanbase was that big. I know we have the largest fanbase for a LI that wasn't in ME1. 

[Caihn]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
There was a time the Miranda fanbase had the potential to do the same. Unfortunately most of fans who were asking her return in the squad have vanished from the forums.
The good old times ...

Really? I never knew the Miranda fanbase was that big. I know we have the largest fanbase for a LI that wasn't in ME1. 

Three years ago, yes.
More active fans and more passionate too.

[fiendishchicken]

Yannkee wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
There was a time the Miranda fanbase had the potential to do the same. Unfortunately most of fans who were asking her return in the squad have vanished from the forums.
The good old times ...

Really? I never knew the Miranda fanbase was that big. I know we have the largest fanbase for a LI that wasn't in ME1. 

Three years ago, yes.
More active fans and more passionate too.

I'm pretty passionate. 

[Ieldra]

@Yannkee:
Three years ago? You mean right after ME2 came out. Yeah, of course there was more activity back then. It wouldn't have changed anything had that continued for more than a year. At some point there was a design decision to keep ME2-exclusive characters out of the ME3 team. Miranda is more popular than the VS, had they been prepared to change that design decision for fan demand at all, Miranda would be on the team. There were several factors that kept her out, and at least one made narrative sense: she had been Cerberus. As soon as the decision was made to elevate Cerberus to a main antagonist and make Shepard go back to the Alliance, Miranda's chances for a permanent slot on the team went to zero. That her content is mostly not satisfying has nothing to do with her not being on the team. Ashley is on the team and her content is not satisfying either. Mordin isn't on the team and his content is great.

I think one reason why Miranda's content is unsatisfying is that the writers didn't want to deal with her controversialness. If you look at the characters, they all end up as unambiguous good guys or girls. Or dead. Also, someone wanted to invoke "redemption equals death" on Miranda and that's why she has almost no content after Sanctuary. She was a victim of the Romantic and traditionalist ideology suffusing ME3 everywhere except in the EC endings.

I would've loved to have Miranda on the team after Sanctuary, but the storytelling crime, that was her absence from Cronos, not her absence from the team.

[David7204]

That 'screenshot of a post' doesn't prove a damn thing. Those are ridiculously easy to fake.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I would've loved to have Miranda on the team after Sanctuary, but the storytelling crime, that was her absence from Cronos, not her absence from the team.

Sorry but I'm not interested in the character just because of her past with Cerberus. 
This character has more potential. 

And since she in no longer with Cerberus, her place was on the Normandy. Where she could have shown what she's capable of.
I don't care about what she can do offscreen. I need to see her in action, and I need to know more about her (her opinion, her feelings ...)

Modifié par Yannkee, 10 février 2013 - 10:58 .

[Han Shot First]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
There was a time the Miranda fanbase had the potential to do the same. Unfortunately most of fans who were asking her return in the squad have vanished from the forums.
The good old times ...

Really? I never knew the Miranda fanbase was that big. I know we have the largest fanbase for a LI that wasn't in ME1. 

Speculation ahead...

I wonder if a big part of Miranda not having a larger role (despite having a large fanbase) was that Yvonne Strahovski became a bigger name in Hollywood between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, and as a result also probably became more expensive. Does Miranda end up with a bigger role if she was voiced by some Aussie unknown?

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

That 'screenshot of a post' doesn't prove a damn thing. Those are ridiculously easy to fake.

I'm the one who took the screenshot. 

[Caihn]

Han Shot First wrote...

Speculation ahead...

I wonder if a big part of Miranda not having a larger role (despite having a large fanbase) was that Yvonne Strahovski became a bigger name in Hollywood between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, and as a result also probably became more expensive. Does Miranda end up with a bigger role if she was voiced by some Aussie unknown?

No. She's certainly less expensive than Martin Sheen, Carrie Anne Moss or Tricia Helfer.

Anyway, I wouldn't have accepted an another VA for Miranda in ME3.

Modifié par Yannkee, 10 février 2013 - 11:24 .

[Dean_the_Young]

StayFrosty05 wrote...

I have seen people repeatedly saying Miranda should be on the ME3 Normandy...

....or Miranda should be a squaddie on Cronos...

....or Miranda should takes tIM's place...

....or Miranda should be the SB...

....and these people seem to feel this is beyond "Because she's my favorite character or LI"....and I am beginning to wonder what the reasoning is behind these views...please explain?

I know this is a few pages and a few days later, but I think this misses the point. The question really isn't 'why should Miranda be on the Normandy or Cronos', but rather 'why should the Normandy or Cronos have been made in such a way that Miranda wasn't on them?'

I'm not the biggest advocate of Miranda or the ME2 cast being permanent squadmates or having major roles: I've consistently and from early on been critical of the Suicide Mission's character implications. But if there was a character of the cast who had the makings to be an Influential Person, it really was Miranda: ability, connections, and a history of responsibility, plus a handy lever to explain why she might still work with Cerberus.

The fact that any of the ME2 crew was killable doesn't mean they couldn't have strong roles, doomed to being extras: it just means they needed character-shaped holes that another NPC could fill as necessary. The best example of this would be Mordin: Mordin's role in ME3 is one any scientific salarian could fill (as Paddok Wiks demonstrates), but it still fits naturally around Mordin. Compare that to, say, Jacob, who is accessory to his own mission, and you can still have a well-fitting role.

I don't think many people would argue that Miranda got one. Her presence in Sanctuary is, to put it bluntly, minimal, and the mission runs almost the same without her alive. Cronos is also built without any consideration as well. It's not that slapping Miranda cameos onto these would solve the problem, but rather they really should have been built such that the role fit her naturally. The levels should be changed to accomodate the characters, not vice versa.

I'll be the first to admit that the Cerberus antagonism of ME3 left Miranda's role in a tough spot: clearly the writers didn't want her to be antagonistic, but removing her from Cerberus removed her from many of her ME2 strengths and relevancies. At the same time, though, her role really did stand to be better crafted.