217 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Yannkee wrote...

No. She's certainly less expensive than Martin Sheen, Carrie Anne Moss or Tricia Helfer.

Anyway, I wouldn't have accepted an another VA for Miranda in ME3.

This.

[jtav]

Regardless of who was voicing Miranda, what would be needed to make her contact satisfactory is a change in direction and not more screen time per se. She shared a writer with Ashley, and all her increased screen time did was ensure that she never made it off Virmire in any of my playthroughs. Miranda needs to talk about something besides Oriana and she needs to have the same meaningful contribution to the Cerberus arc that Mordin does for the genophage.

[Caihn]

I don't care about a 5 minutes cameo for Miranda, even if it's about Cerberus.
This character deserves more.

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

Regardless of who was voicing Miranda, what would be needed to make her contact satisfactory is a change in direction and not more screen time per se. She shared a writer with Ashley, and all her increased screen time did was ensure that she never made it off Virmire in any of my playthroughs. Miranda needs to talk about something besides Oriana and she needs to have the same meaningful contribution to the Cerberus arc that Mordin does for the genophage.

I would prefer to have an hour of decent content rather than 5 minutes of exceptional content (that would be mostly spent in ship-board conversations, like Mordin).

[jtav]

Good content is always preferable to more, though in a perfect world one would have both. At present, Miranda has neither quantity nor quality. But a small, bad role is preferable to a large, bad role simply because she has less chance to infuriate. Or do you really want her to end up like Ashley?

[o Ventus]

jtav wrote...

Good content is always preferable to more

Not when the screentime:quality ratio is skewed far in the favor of the former. Again, I'll take an hour of decent content over 5 or so minutes of exceptional content. A Big Mac is uglier than a petite, $15 steak, but it's also cheaper and more filling. One can be content with what they have without striving for the best.

At present, Miranda has neither quantity nor quality. But a small, bad role is preferable to a large, bad role simply because she has less chance to infuriate. Or do you really want her to end up like Ashley?

Implying Ashley has a big, yet bad role. She doesn't.

Modifié par o Ventus, 11 février 2013 - 01:04 .

[fiendishchicken]

jtav wrote...

Good content is always preferable to more, though in a perfect world one would have both. At present, Miranda has neither quantity nor quality. But a small, bad role is preferable to a large, bad role simply because she has less chance to infuriate. Or do you really want her to end up like Ashley?

That's subjective of course. To you, Miranda has a bad role with bad content. I think she has great content. I'm annoyed that they recycled the plot for her LM, but that's it.

I think she needs a lot more content though. Meaningful interaction between her and Shepard for one.

Modifié par fiendishchicken, 11 février 2013 - 01:12 .

[Caihn]

^ this

And it doesn't mean I like the fact that she spent the entire game searching her sister. She could have done more important things with more content.

All this time wasted searching her sister, while she could have all the informations she needs on the Normandy.

Modifié par Yannkee, 11 février 2013 - 01:16 .

[spirosz]

Yannkee wrote...

^ this

And it doesn't mean I like the fact that she spent the entire game searching her sister. She could have done more important things with more content.

All this time wasted searching her sister, while she could have all the informations she needs on the Normandy.

So technically, she could of had the same amount of content, in terms of how much is there in game - just directed towards Cerberus, instead of her sister.  

[Caihn]

spirosz wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

^ this

And it doesn't mean I like the fact that she spent the entire game searching her sister. She could have done more important things with more content.

All this time wasted searching her sister, while she could have all the informations she needs on the Normandy.

So technically, she could of had the same amount of content, in terms of how much is there in game - just directed towards Cerberus, instead of her sister.  

No she could search informations about her sister while being on the Normandy (I can easily imagine the possibility to recruit her after the coup). And then she become a squadmate so she can be with you for Santuary, Cronos, and Priority Earth missions.
I think all ME2 LI deserve at least a temporary squadmate status or some time on the Normandy.

Modifié par Yannkee, 11 février 2013 - 01:46 .

[spirosz]

I don't think her sister should of been any major part of her arc, minor at best, some help with intel, or Miranda teaching her some of her talents behind the scenes. I agree, she could of been interesting to have as a temp for Cronos or Sanctuary. I would of loved to see her reaction to her old room and what it turned into, haha.

Also, I don't believe every ME2 LI deserves temporary squadmate status, but some time on the Normandy, for sure - I would of loved to see Jack some more, but Shepard wasn't her priority in ME3 and I understand that, but that lack of emotional content made me dislike the way Bioware portrayed certain aspects of her arc.

Anyway, back on Miranda, I still believe she could of used the same amount of content with ties to Cerberus, instead of keeping the sister arc and adding more content for her. Everything with her sister could of been behind the scenes as I stated above.

[Caihn]

Not for me. I still believe she doesn't have enough content in ME3. And replacing some of this content is not the solution.
Yes the Cerberus arc of her story is missing in ME3, but not everyone want to see only a Cerberus centric content for Miranda. 

Modifié par Yannkee, 11 février 2013 - 07:01 .

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...
Not for me. I still believe she doesn't have enough content in ME3. And replacing some of this content is not the solution.
Yes the Cerberus arc of her story is missing in ME3, but not everyone want to see only a Cerberus centric content for Miranda. 

Neither do I. The problem is that Oriana is a topic explored to our satisfaction in ME2. It should not have been rehashed without adding something new to it. For instance, I would have found it ironically fitting if Oriana didn't want that normal life Miranda wanted for her and proceeded to do something dangerous, and Miranda had to deal with it. Meanwhile, two other important topics - the genetic engineering and her father's plans for her, and the Cerberus arc -  remained completely unexplored. As i see it, rehashing Oriana was superfluous, while dealing with "Miranda and Cerberus" was necessary. 

Also, it is undeniable that Miranda on the team would have provided lots of opportunities for more characterization, given all those pre- and post-mission exchanges in ME3. I miss that of course, but for me it's not a critical loss.  

[Caihn]

You've just confirmed what I said. You only care about the Cerberus part. For you it's the only critical loss, I say her involvment in the Reaper war, her carreer after Cerberus and how she imagine her future with Shepard are also a critical loss.

[Ieldra]

LOL. She has an involvement in the Reaper war on Sanctuary, so why would I mention that? The only downside is that it's accidental. As for her future, well yeah, that's a loss. I certainly posted enough about it in the past, and that it didn't happen is galling especially since it was hinted at in the leaked script. However, this is actually connected to the Cerberus plot - will she do something in a similar spirit without the atrocities in the future, will she do something else completely? It's all connected. I consider the Cerberus arc critical exactly because several other topics can be wrapped up alongside, and can't be wrapped up without touching it. As for the romantic future, no other romance gets plans for the future, so why would Miranda's?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 février 2013 - 09:51 .

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Not for me. I still believe she doesn't have enough content in ME3. And replacing some of this content is not the solution.
Yes the Cerberus arc of her story is missing in ME3, but not everyone want to see only a Cerberus centric content for Miranda. 

Neither do I. The problem is that Oriana is a topic explored to our satisfaction in ME2. It should not have been rehashed without adding something new to it. For instance, I would have found it ironically fitting if Oriana didn't want that normal life Miranda wanted for her and proceeded to do something dangerous, and Miranda had to deal with it. Meanwhile, two other important topics - the genetic engineering and her father's plans for her, and the Cerberus arc -  remained completely unexplored. As i see it, rehashing Oriana was superfluous, while dealing with "Miranda and Cerberus" was necessary. 

Also, it is undeniable that Miranda on the team would have provided lots of opportunities for more characterization, given all those pre- and post-mission exchanges in ME3. I miss that of course, but for me it's not a critical loss.  

Agree Miranda on team would have been ideal. Not being on the team limited content but there's still necessary stuff that should and could have been there instead of the poor rehash job and filler given.

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

LOL. She has an involvement in the Reaper war on Sanctuary, so why would I mention that? The only downside is that it's accidental. As for her future, well yeah, that's a loss. I certainly posted enough about it in the past, and that it didn't happen is galling especially since it was hinted at in the leaked script. However, this is actually connected to the Cerberus plot - will she do something in a similar spirit without the atrocities in the future, will she do something else completely? It's all connected. I consider the Cerberus arc critical exactly because several other topics can be wrapped up alongside, and can't be wrapped up without touching it. As for the romantic future, no other romance gets plans for the future, so why would Miranda's?

I don't call this an involvment. She could have done a lot more if she was on the Normandy instead.
Yes her Cerberus arc needs closure, but it doesn't have to be all about Cerberus. It would be boring and uninteresting. Yes it works for Legion and Mordin, but not for Miranda.
As for the romance, I only ask for more equity. Miranda (and the other ME2 LI) deserves the same quality and quantity of romance content than Liara.

[Nightwriter]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I know this is a few pages and a few days later, but I think this misses the point. The question really isn't 'why should Miranda be on the Normandy or Cronos', but rather 'why should the Normandy or Cronos have been made in such a way that Miranda wasn't on them?'

I'm not the biggest advocate of Miranda or the ME2 cast being permanent squadmates or having major roles: I've consistently and from early on been critical of the Suicide Mission's character implications. But if there was a character of the cast who had the makings to be an Influential Person, it really was Miranda: ability, connections, and a history of responsibility, plus a handy lever to explain why she might still work with Cerberus.

The fact that any of the ME2 crew was killable doesn't mean they couldn't have strong roles, doomed to being extras: it just means they needed character-shaped holes that another NPC could fill as necessary. The best example of this would be Mordin: Mordin's role in ME3 is one any scientific salarian could fill (as Paddok Wiks demonstrates), but it still fits naturally around Mordin. Compare that to, say, Jacob, who is accessory to his own mission, and you can still have a well-fitting role.

I don't think many people would argue that Miranda got one. Her presence in Sanctuary is, to put it bluntly, minimal, and the mission runs almost the same without her alive. Cronos is also built without any consideration as well. It's not that slapping Miranda cameos onto these would solve the problem, but rather they really should have been built such that the role fit her naturally. The levels should be changed to accomodate the characters, not vice versa.

I'll be the first to admit that the Cerberus antagonism of ME3 left Miranda's role in a tough spot: clearly the writers didn't want her to be antagonistic, but removing her from Cerberus removed her from many of her ME2 strengths and relevancies. At the same time, though, her role really did stand to be better crafted.