228 réponses à ce sujet

[fiendishchicken]

o Ventus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

So? But I will admit the Typhoon's heat sinks are a bit of fun. They are plausible though.

So then why put a drum magazine on a weapon that already derives its ammunition from a block of metal located inside the body of the gun? 

I haven't played with the Piranha in a long time, but doesn't the magazine also revolve when fired in succession?

I told you my theory about the Piranha right?

The Typhoon is just ridiculous. Love that gun, hate those shells.

[BansheeOwnage]

o Ventus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

So? But I will admit the Typhoon's heat sinks are a bit of fun. They are plausible though.

So then why put a drum magazine on a weapon that already derives its ammunition from a block of metal located inside the body of the gun? 

I haven't played with the Piranha in a long time, but doesn't the magazine also revolve when fired in succession? That would mean it has 8 or so smaller blocks of metal that trade off after every full rotation. Kind of pointless (and not very weight efficient) when you consider every other shotgun in the game.

Because more heat sinks (not thermal clips).

[BansheeOwnage]

KevShep wrote...

Indoctrination is a very hard thing to understand. It is something that you have to pay attention to and notice because even the codex is so misunderstood. People get the deffinitions of the words wrong all the time.

Telling an ITer how indoctrination works? This is new. I understand it better than many, and stand by what I said. Perhaps you just got the definitions of the words in my post wrong.

[KevShep]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Indoctrination is a very hard thing to understand. It is something that you have to pay attention to and notice because even the codex is so misunderstood. People get the deffinitions of the words wrong all the time.

Telling an ITer how indoctrination works? This is new. I understand it better than many, and stand by what I said. Perhaps you just got the definitions of the words in my post wrong.

Did you not say this in reguards to my post about a question?...]

The degree of ignorance in this post is more staggering than a Geth Prime and its drones.

[BleedingUranium]

o Ventus wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

So? But I will admit the Typhoon's heat sinks are a bit of fun. They are plausible though.

So then why put a drum magazine on a weapon that already derives its ammunition from a block of metal located inside the body of the gun? 

I haven't played with the Piranha in a long time, but doesn't the magazine also revolve when fired in succession? That would mean it has 8 or so smaller blocks of metal that trade off after every full rotation. Kind of pointless (and not very weight efficient) when you consider every other shotgun in the game.

Oh! Wait! Yes! That's what it is, eight ammunition blocks! I totally forgot that the Talon does the same thing because it risks melting the whole block otherwise. It makes perfect sense that the Piranha, being an auto-shotgun designed for fighting smaller Reaper creatures like human husks, which there a lot of, would need the same system.

[KevShep]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Indoctrination is a very hard thing to understand. It is something that you have to pay attention to and notice because even the codex is so misunderstood. People get the deffinitions of the words wrong all the time.

Telling an ITer how indoctrination works? This is new. I understand it better than many, and stand by what I said. Perhaps you just got the definitions of the words in my post wrong.

Maybe you should try and actually read my post on the definition of indoctrination instead of the last sentince.

My statment was solid on my question that you called ignorance.

If the reapers have access to our minds better then us then the reapers should have found a new solution WAY before we organics did. indoctrination REQUIRES the FULL understanding of our minds inorder to manipulate it the way that the reapers use it.

Modifié par KevShep, 07 février 2013 - 02:44 .

[Auld Wulf]

NinjaTurtle12 wrote...

2.Bullets in ME universe
This is bugging me since ME1,you can see bullet being fired from gun,impact crater and empy shells droping fom Typhoon but you never see soldier putting one single bullet in the gun,really wierd

There's this thing in the game that tells you lots of neat things about Mass Effect, you miiiight want to look into it, some time. It actually explains little details like this. Never reading is bad.

NinjaTurtle12 wrote...

3.The [/b]Catalyst and The Kid,true form of Catalyst and the Pawns
How did Reapers knowed about Kid and why is he used for hologram of Catalyst.Is Citadel herself Catalyst?Catalyst must have some kind of hardware,and hardware who stores memories of galaxy must be huge.Why Catalyst do not use Pawns for reinforcements of true Reapers?

The catalyst is the logistics program of the reapers, the one that has the processing power to lay out a plan of action in order for all the reapers to follow. In this way, it's a representation of the reapers, but at the same time it's a separate entity to them. The catalyst selected a form that Shepard would empathise with as it's been in a power struggle with harbinger for quite some time in order to overturn its original conclusion, which it realised was false. You see the kid playing with the alliance ship right at the beginning, that represents the catalyst's vested interest in this cycle succeeding in constructing the crucible.

The crucible is basically something that the catalyst himself leaked; it contains not only resources but a programming override that would allow it to provide another set of conclusions to be chosen from.

NinjaTurtle12 wrote...

4.Breathing on citadel
Turians,humans,krogans and salarians do not use same mix of gas for breathing,but on citadel they all walk without masks and inhale same mix,but they can breathe normall

Nnnnow you're just making things up. Only volus and a couple of other aliens that use atmospheric converters actually need that. For most races, their planets have an atmosphere similar to earth's. Consider how you can land on the krogan/salarian homeworld and choose to not use a helmet for cutscenes. This is also mentioned in the game's lore database, it says that 'garden worlds' are highly sought after by all races because of this.

[BleedingUranium]

KevShep wrote...

Maybe you should try and actually read my post on the definition of indoctrination instead of the last sentince.

My statment was solid on my question that you called ignorance.

If the reapers have access to our minds better then us then the reapers should have found a new solution WAY before we organics did. indoctrination REQUIRES the FULL understanding of our minds inorder to manipulate it the way that the reapers use it.

That's because we organics never found a "new solution".

Oh wait, yes we did: "I have a better idea: we destroy you and live our lives in peace."

[Baranus33]

They only need to understand the chemical reactions inside the brain to manipulate and indoctrinate us. Your assuming "full understanding" means "our soul". I highly doubt reapers believe in the idea of a soul nor care. Because if you mean biology then the Reapers know all they need to know about humans from ME2, the Collectors had surely done some form of dissection and experiments to know exactly what makes us tick.

who is to say they already hadn't thought of synthesis before?? im pretty sure Harbinger is the prime example of synthesis at work. And if Harbinger isn't some form of synthesis which is not true as ALL REAPERS ARE PART SYNTHETIC AND ORGANIC WITH AN UNDERSTANDING OF EACHOTHER just like Starkid says the "new" synthesis is

[KevShep]

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Maybe you should try and actually read my post on the definition of indoctrination instead of the last sentince.

My statment was solid on my question that you called ignorance.

If the reapers have access to our minds better then us then the reapers should have found a new solution WAY before we organics did. indoctrination REQUIRES the FULL understanding of our minds inorder to manipulate it the way that the reapers use it.

That's because we organics never found a "new solution".

Oh wait, yes we did: "I have a better idea: we destroy you and live our lives in peace."

The crucible WAS built by organics. It WAS a new solution. The reapers thought that what they were doing WAS the best solution. If they had just used there knowledge of organics then they would have. There is no reason that they(reapers) could not do this because they have indoctrination.

[KevShep]

Baranus33 wrote...

They only need to understand the chemical reactions inside the brain to manipulate and indoctrinate us. Your assuming "full understanding" means "our soul". I highly doubt reapers believe in the idea of a soul nor care. Because if you mean biology then the Reapers know all they need to know about humans from ME2, the Collectors had surely done some form of dissection and experiments to know exactly what makes us tick.

who is to say they already hadn't thought of synthesis before?? im pretty sure Harbinger is the prime example of synthesis at work. And if Harbinger isn't some form of synthesis which is not true as ALL REAPERS ARE PART SYNTHETIC AND ORGANIC WITH AN UNDERSTANDING OF EACHOTHER just like Starkid says the "new" synthesis is

No man, its with the limic system which is our subconscious mind related to fear and anger. Read the codex, there needs to be more then just a chemical reation.


Read this...

oIve typed out sentence by sentence break bown of the codex on indoctrination

[[Reaper "indoctrination" is an insidious means of corrupting organic minds]],

-Insidious definition...1a: awaiting a chance to entrap...b: harmful but enticing : seductive.
-This is key to understanding how they use indoctrination. They MUST wait to get a subject to be traped by there own fears in contrast with there goals.


[["reprogramming" the brain through physical and psychological conditioning]]

- Psychological conditioning
A process of behavior modification in which the likelihood of a specific behavior is increased or decreased through positive or negative reinforcement each time the behavior is exhibited, so that the subject comes to associate the pleasure or displeasure of the reinforcement with the behavior..........This does NOT just happen on its own. It REQUIRES perfect timing and NEEDS to be controled.

[[using electromagnetic fields, infrasonic and ultrasonic noise, and other subliminal methods.]]

-sub·lim·i·nal (sb-lm-nl)
adj. Psychology
1. Below the threshold of conscious perception. Used of stimuli.
2. Inadequate to produce conscious awareness but able to evoke a response

-Read that last one. Again, indoc is not something the reapers just flip on a swich without doing anything.

[[The Reaper's resulting control over the limbic system leaves the victim highly susceptible to its suggestions.]]

-LIMBIC SYSTEM.... Limbic system structures are involved in many of our emotions and motivations, particularly those that are related to survival. Such emotions include fear, anger

-Saren and TIM were fueled by fear of not surviving because of there limbic system in the control of the reapers. There goals made made them an EASY target for the reapers because TIM and Sarens motives fell in line with the reapers own plans.

[[Organics undergoing indoctrination may complain of headaches and buzzing or ringing in their ears. As time passes, they have feelings of "being watched" and hallucinations of "ghostly" presences. Ultimately, the Reaper gains the ability to use the victim's body to amplify its signals, manifesting as "alien" voices in the mind.]]

- There signals they emit are making the indoctrinated people walking reaper artifacts that can indoctrinate others if spent to long in there presents. The signal is just the connection from the reapers to the subjects.

[[Indoctrination can create perfect deep cover agents.]]

- indoctrination is NOT the same as direct control as seen with Pual Grason as proof.

[[A Reaper's "suggestions" can manipulate victims into betraying friends, trusting enemies, or viewing the Reaper itself with superstitious awe. Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.]]

- there suggestions (meaning that they are NOT directly controling them) which are unknown to the subject often make them in awe of the reapers has we saw in TIM and Saren and even Kenson but not in Paul Grason(becaues he was in direct control instead).

[[Long-term physical effects of the manipulation are unsustainable. Higher mental functioning decays, ultimately leaving the victim a gibbering animal. Rapid indoctrination is possible, but causes this decay in days or weeks. Slow, patient indoctrination allows the thrall to last for months or years]]

-The more that you manipulate someone the less that that person becomes useful to think on there own (as in real life with things like religion and zeliots). This will turn them into husks which the reapers abandonded because they make VERY bad agents.

Modifié par KevShep, 07 février 2013 - 03:03 .

[BleedingUranium]

KevShep wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Maybe you should try and actually read my post on the definition of indoctrination instead of the last sentince.

My statment was solid on my question that you called ignorance.

If the reapers have access to our minds better then us then the reapers should have found a new solution WAY before we organics did. indoctrination REQUIRES the FULL understanding of our minds inorder to manipulate it the way that the reapers use it.

That's because we organics never found a "new solution".

Oh wait, yes we did: "I have a better idea: we destroy you and live our lives in peace."

The crucible WAS built by organics. It WAS a new solution. The reapers thought that what they were doing WAS the best solution. If they had just used there knowledge of organics then they would have. There is no reason that they(reapers) could not do this because they have indoctrination.

Built by? Yes. Designed by? Highly unlikely.

Your posts about how indoctrination works aren't really helping your case.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 07 février 2013 - 03:05 .

[KevShep]

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Maybe you should try and actually read my post on the definition of indoctrination instead of the last sentince.

My statment was solid on my question that you called ignorance.

If the reapers have access to our minds better then us then the reapers should have found a new solution WAY before we organics did. indoctrination REQUIRES the FULL understanding of our minds inorder to manipulate it the way that the reapers use it.

That's because we organics never found a "new solution".

Oh wait, yes we did: "I have a better idea: we destroy you and live our lives in peace."

The crucible WAS built by organics. It WAS a new solution. The reapers thought that what they were doing WAS the best solution. If they had just used there knowledge of organics then they would have. There is no reason that they(reapers) could not do this because they have indoctrination.

Built by? Yes. Designed by? Highly unlikely.

Your posts about how indoctrination works aren't really helping your case.

each race added to it so they do have an understanding of what there building. The fact that the catalyst did not know of it suggests that they did not design it, we did.

[Asch Lavigne]

How did the Asari know they artifact on Thessia would help with the Crucible? I mean if they knew about the Catalyst then they knew about the Crucible which means they knew about the Reapers. Unless they were stupid and just thought "oh we have a Prothean Beacon, the Crucible is Prothean, therefore..." for all they knew it could contain useless information. Or have more visions like the Eden Prime one.

[KevShep]

BleedingUranium wrote...


Your posts about how indoctrination works aren't really helping your case.

I will sum it up for you.

Indoctrination(or manipulation) works while the subject is doing the reapers bidding and is unknown to the subject that they are being manipulated.

Look a saren resisting them in ME1... He is doing what he is doing willinly through there suggestions. He even shoots himself in the end willingly trying to resist them.

 Resisting indoctrination is no different then trying to get a religious zelot to renounce his fath. As we see in TIM and saren they CAN resist but the more that your in the belief the more you cant resist.

Modifié par KevShep, 07 février 2013 - 03:15 .

[BleedingUranium]

KevShep wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...


Your posts about how indoctrination works aren't really helping your case.

I will sum it up for you.

Indoctrination(or manipulation) works while the subject is doing the reapers bidding and is unknown to the subject that they are being manipulated.

Look a saren resisting them in ME1... He is doing what he is doing willinly through there suggestions. He even shoots himself in the end willingly trying to resist them.

 Resisting indoctrination is no different then trying to get a religious zelot to renounce his fath. As we see in TIM and saren they CAN resist but the more that your in the (belief) the more you can resist.

Yes, that's correct. What's your point?

[Baranus33]

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

[KevShep]

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...


Your posts about how indoctrination works aren't really helping your case.

I will sum it up for you.

Indoctrination(or manipulation) works while the subject is doing the reapers bidding and is unknown to the subject that they are being manipulated.

Look a saren resisting them in ME1... He is doing what he is doing willinly through there suggestions. He even shoots himself in the end willingly trying to resist them.

 Resisting indoctrination is no different then trying to get a religious zelot to renounce his fath. As we see in TIM and saren they CAN resist but the more that your in the (belief) the more you can resist.

Yes, that's correct. What's your point?

I assumed that you were against my thoughts on indoctrination.

[KevShep]

Baranus33 wrote...

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

Its manipulation of the subconscious mind(limbic system as mentioned in the codex) which requires a complete understanding of the orgainc mind and all of its emotional behavor.

Modifié par KevShep, 07 février 2013 - 03:20 .

[BleedingUranium]

KevShep wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

Its manipulation of the subconscious mind(limbic system as mentioned in the codex) which requires a complete understanding of the orgainc mind and all of its emotional behavor.

Most of what you said on indoctrination is correct, but this is not.

It's not that technical or absolute. Reapers suggest things, people end up agreeing with it, usually without ever being aware the Reapers suggested or manipulated them.

Put as simply as possible: Indoctrination doesn't force you do what the Reapers want, it makes you want to do the things the Reapers want.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 07 février 2013 - 03:24 .

[KevShep]

BleedingUranium wrote...

[
Put as simply as possible: Indoctrination doesn't force you do what the Reapers want, it makes you want to do the things the Reapers want.

Thats exactly what the limbic system is and that is excatly what Ive been saying.

Its because of this that the reapers have enough intel on our thought process that they can and would have found a new solution that made sense. The fact that they have not is contridicting to them being able to use indoctinration.

Its a major plot hole

Modifié par KevShep, 07 février 2013 - 03:30 .

[jkflipflopDAO]

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

Its manipulation of the subconscious mind(limbic system as mentioned in the codex) which requires a complete understanding of the orgainc mind and all of its emotional behavor.

Most of what you said on indoctrination is correct, but this is not.

It's not that technical or absolute. Reapers suggest things, people end up agreeing with it, usually without ever being aware the Reapers suggested or manipulated them.

Put as simply as possible: Indoctrination doesn't force you do what the Reapers want, it makes you want to do the things the Reapers want.

That's not true at all. Greyson was under direct control of the reapers and in fact they manipulated his body while his brain was asleep. TIM clearly forces shepard to freeze in place and then put a round in Anderson through indoctrination.

It's all in how hard they want to squeeze your mind. If they exert maximum control then you become a mindless husk that can't think for itself. . . they burn you out. If they want to gently persuade they do it over a long time and let the indoctrination simmer and marinade for a while.

[KevShep]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

Its manipulation of the subconscious mind(limbic system as mentioned in the codex) which requires a complete understanding of the orgainc mind and all of its emotional behavor.

Most of what you said on indoctrination is correct, but this is not.

It's not that technical or absolute. Reapers suggest things, people end up agreeing with it, usually without ever being aware the Reapers suggested or manipulated them.

Put as simply as possible: Indoctrination doesn't force you do what the Reapers want, it makes you want to do the things the Reapers want.

That's not true at all. Greyson was under direct control of the reapers and in fact they manipulated his body while his brain was asleep. TIM clearly forces shepard to freeze in place and then put a round in Anderson through indoctrination.

It's all in how hard they want to squeeze your mind. If they exert maximum control then you become a mindless husk that can't think for itself. . . they burn you out. If they want to gently persuade they do it over a long time and let the indoctrination simmer and marinade for a while.

direct control and indoctrination are two different things completely.

[BleedingUranium]

jkflipflopDAO wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

KevShep wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

Its manipulation of the subconscious mind(limbic system as mentioned in the codex) which requires a complete understanding of the orgainc mind and all of its emotional behavor.

Most of what you said on indoctrination is correct, but this is not.

It's not that technical or absolute. Reapers suggest things, people end up agreeing with it, usually without ever being aware the Reapers suggested or manipulated them.

Put as simply as possible: Indoctrination doesn't force you do what the Reapers want, it makes you want to do the things the Reapers want.

That's not true at all. Greyson was under direct control of the reapers and in fact they manipulated his body while his brain was asleep. TIM clearly forces shepard to freeze in place and then put a round in Anderson through indoctrination.

It's all in how hard they want to squeeze your mind. If they exert maximum control then you become a mindless husk that can't think for itself. . . they burn you out. If they want to gently persuade they do it over a long time and let the indoctrination simmer and marinade for a while.

That's the *other* kind of indoctrination, which isn't really indoctrination at all, the story just used that as a catch all word for Reaper influence or control.

What you're talking about is more like the Leviathan's enthrallment/Harby's ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL. It's control of the body, but not the mind.

Indoctrination proper is influence of the mind, but no control over the body. Indoctrination is the proper sense is effectly the exact same thing as the act of inception from the movie of the same name: planting an idea in someone's head that they think is their own.

[Lokanaiya]

KevShep wrote...

Baranus33 wrote...

you're right it is more than just a chemical reaction, it is partly neurological and I left that out.

Its manipulation of the subconscious mind(limbic system as mentioned in the codex) which requires a complete understanding of the orgainc mind and all of its emotional behavor.

Even if that's correct, and I'm not saying that it is, the Reapers still have an amazing understanding of how organic minds work through several things: how their pawns' minds work (See Paul Grayson; the Reapers could eventually read his thoughts and thought processes) access to everything we ever wrote about psychology (I'm presuming, since in past cycles when the Reapers easily seized the Citadel they looked through it to find information about all the races, and if there were any electronic copies of psychology research papers there the Reapers would know everything they said; if not, they just go snooping through the libraries on the homeplanets when they got to them) and simply by observing organics for millions to billions of years. It would be kind of hard NOT to know basic organic thought processes after fighting them for so long so many times.