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Some of biggest lore-breakers and unexplained things in Mass Effect 3


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#151
KevShep

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masster blaster wrote...

Kev I have a feeling somebody is going to report this thread. Due to IT, and Indoctrination talk that is. So where do you want to chat next with Blurr, and Me?

Both of us are ITers, and I remeber, that you visited the IT thread a few times in the past. So mit I suggest that posting in the comments on our pofiles, IT group, or the IT forum/ the ME forum in general? Take your pick.


Iam also an ITer.

Thing is, I dont know where to go anymore on the IT or anything related to the IT. 

#152
BleedingUranium

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The IT forum is here :D

http://indoctrinatio...orumotion.co.uk

#153
masster blaster

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KevShep wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Kev I have a feeling somebody is going to report this thread. Due to IT, and Indoctrination talk that is. So where do you want to chat next with Blurr, and Me?

Both of us are ITers, and I remeber, that you visited the IT thread a few times in the past. So mit I suggest that posting in the comments on our pofiles, IT group, or the IT forum/ the ME forum in general? Take your pick.


Iam also an ITer.

Thing is, I dont know where to go anymore on the IT or anything related to the IT. 


Have you been to the new site? If you haven't, then don't worry about that. You been missing out on new speculations, and we built quite the community there, if you haven't been there already.

Let's see you can talk about IT on the IT thread, look/ read the IT archives on a new forum we created, go to the off topic forum, the arts, and literature forum, or go the the ME forum.

I could post you a link if you haven't been there yet, and we can get you up to date now that we are very organized.


Never mind Blurr already posted the link. XD

Modifié par masster blaster, 07 février 2013 - 04:40 .


#154
KevShep

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BleedingUranium wrote...

The IT forum is here :D

http://indoctrinatio...orumotion.co.uk


Alright thank you.

I have to go to work in 15 minutes so I will join that site when I get back.

btw my username is the same as the one here.

Modifié par KevShep, 07 février 2013 - 04:47 .


#155
atheelogos

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How shields can all of the sudden stop biotics when they couldn't do that in the first game

How ME barriers can hold atmosphere even though it says in the codex they can't

How come shep is not blind after staring at that star at the end of of ME2. Should have lost his sight.

How can shep survive the destroy ending. How the Reaper couldn't hit little sheppard on Rannoch. There's now way it could have missed.

How Shep survived Harbingers laser beam at the end of the Earth mission.

How shep was brought back to life in ME2

Modifié par atheelogos, 07 février 2013 - 06:27 .


#156
adayaday

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Auld Wulf wrote...


The crucible is basically something that the catalyst himself leaked; it contains not only resources but a programming override that would allow it to provide another set of conclusions to be chosen from.

So let me get this stright,the Catalyst -an AI that was built to solve organic/syntetic conflict found an alternative non galactic genoside solution,but rather then building it him self he gave it to the same organic that he kill so they can build it for him while he is killing them?

...typical Catalyst logic,makes sense...

#157
Slashice

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Here are the lore stuff that bugs me big time:

- According to ME1 lore, Vigil told us that when the Reapers poured through the Citadel relay, the shut down the whole relay network, crippling the Prothean empire, forcing them to fight from planet to planet, system to system (even Javik told this in ME3). That's why the extinction took quite some time for the Reapers, and that's why only a few (probably dozen) Prothean scientist survived in cryo. So why didn't the Reapers even tried to capture the Citadel and shut down the relay network? It doesn't make sense at all! Harbinger know Shepard, know what he's up to, yet letting him to use the relays?

- Mars archives: all of sudden Liara and TIM discovers the Cruicible plan on the archives. Humans studied the archives from the very beginning, that's led to the Charon dormant relay. And we only discover such thing now? It's out of place and according to my first point, Shepard's first route should be into the Citadel, using the data from Vigil and seal the station. That's the only way to protect it from the Reapers since they don't have a control over the Keepers (according to ME1 lore) so they cannot open it remotely. Also, according to ME2 lore, Vigil is not more functional so they won't be able to use the Ilos backdoor relay. Yes, this would make impossible to play on the Citadel, yet it would fit perfectly into the lore.

- The catalyst: As it is said, he's embodies the collective intelligence of all Reapers, and the Citadel is part of him. According to ME1 lore, the Keepers controlled by the Citadel. The Protheans used the conduit to go back to the Citadel and sabotaged the Keepers. So yes, they place a mass relay on the Citadel, "on" the catalyst, then sabotaged the Keepers, those Keepers who controlled by the Citadel thus by the Catalyst. Yet the Catalyst didn't sent a note to the other Reapers about the sabotage. Sovereign had to start an investigation to find out why didn't the Keepers respond to his signal, that finally led to Saren and we all know what happened with Saren.

- Pointless hintings and foreshadowing in ME2: It was hinted that the final coflict will be something involves dark energy and has to do something with human genetic diversity. None of this ever mentioned in ME2. In ME1 at the description of Dis planet about the Leviathans they wrote about a derelict genetically engineered space ship. In ME2 it is revealed that it's probably a Reapers since Reapers are do genetically engineered -  that's how hintings work. Also in ME1 at the Klencory planet desricption it is stated that the beings of light are supposed to protect organics from machine devils and they have a crypt on the planet. This crypt part has removed in ME3 yet it would've been to place to find the blue prints of the Cruicible. Would've made more sense then the Mars archives....

- Meaningless Reapers in ME3: According to ME1 and ME2 the Reapers are some godlike sentient race of machines. In ME3 they're just tools without free will, who cannot even explain why are they doing what are they doing. In ME1 and ME2 both Sovereign and Harbinger had a big role. We even had en epic conversation with Sovereign. They were both masterminds, free of all weaknesess, independents, each a nation. In ME3 they're just tools even Harbinger himself. Also at the end of ME2 we saw at least 4-5 Reapers with different models and shapes suggesting that after each harvest the Reapers keep this cuttlefish style but yet they have a slightly unique look. Ofcourse not for all that would be pointless and impossible to make it in game. Howewer it does show a way how Reapers probably evolved over the billions of years. In ME3 we only see a slightly modified version of Sovereign and ALL the Reapers look like this (don't count those silly Destroyers and that possible "troop transport" Reaper hologram in the N7 mission). Even Harbinger's ME2 model were put in the bin and share the same model as the other Sovereign class Reapers, only he lacks the middle "leg" and has glowing eyes.

#158
78stonewobble

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Maxster_ wrote...

Destroyer's gun are not so powerful, more like 10-20 kt of TNT.
Still, it is impossible to survive nearhit on a surface of a planet with atmosphere, for individual soldier. And it impossible to survive that in space, because of heat and radiation, - spacesuit will not hold that.

Also - thanix missiles. Pure nonsense, flying guns with eezo which are weaker than gun on Mako? :lol:


This might allready have been mentioned but regarding the Reaper destroyers cannon.

We don't know for sure that, when the beam hits an object, that it will "explode". To me atleast it seems designed to pierce rather than explode on the surface on what ever object.

Meaning that the energy is tighly focused (not a laser but sort of that principle) and "digs in".

The damage would then come from literally drilling a hole through whatever vital bulkheads, equipment, people, power and control circuits when it hits eg. a ship and in a sense depending on secondary explosions for an explosion to happen.

When it hits earth/dirt... it just digs in, vaporising some on the way, but the entire energy is not released on the surface. Which saves Shepard.

It's maybe a bit sought explanation but ... It kinda explains it.

#159
Wompoo

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Sovereign's conversation in ME 1 and Harbingers conversation in ME 2 just say one thing, where the hell did ME 3 come from. Sovereign we are legion, each a nation, each "independent"

#160
Atekimagus

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Slashice wrote...

- The catalyst: As it is said, he's embodies the collective intelligence of all Reapers, and the Citadel is part of him. According to ME1 lore, the Keepers controlled by the Citadel. The Protheans used the conduit to go back to the Citadel and sabotaged the Keepers. So yes, they place a mass relay on the Citadel, "on" the catalyst, then sabotaged the Keepers, those Keepers who controlled by the Citadel thus by the Catalyst. Yet the Catalyst didn't sent a note to the other Reapers about the sabotage. Sovereign had to start an investigation to find out why didn't the Keepers respond to his signal, that finally led to Saren and we all know what happened with Saren.


This is the single biggest lore-breaker, it invalidates the whole first game.

Instead of wasting who knows how many years indoctrinating agents and geth to get to the citadel, all he really needed to do is:

"Cataclyst? Yo, Sovereign calling. This is a bit embarassing but I just called the keepers but I only got on voice-mail. However it is harvesting-time, so would you mind open up the citadel relay? No problem? Thanks Boss! What a load of my mind. Sorry again for disturbing you.!"

#161
Slashice

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Atekimagus wrote...

Slashice wrote...

- The catalyst: As it is said, he's embodies the collective intelligence of all Reapers, and the Citadel is part of him. According to ME1 lore, the Keepers controlled by the Citadel. The Protheans used the conduit to go back to the Citadel and sabotaged the Keepers. So yes, they place a mass relay on the Citadel, "on" the catalyst, then sabotaged the Keepers, those Keepers who controlled by the Citadel thus by the Catalyst. Yet the Catalyst didn't sent a note to the other Reapers about the sabotage. Sovereign had to start an investigation to find out why didn't the Keepers respond to his signal, that finally led to Saren and we all know what happened with Saren.


This is the single biggest lore-breaker, it invalidates the whole first game.

Instead of wasting who knows how many years indoctrinating agents and geth to get to the citadel, all he really needed to do is:

"Cataclyst? Yo, Sovereign calling. This is a bit embarassing but I just called the keepers but I only got on voice-mail. However it is harvesting-time, so would you mind open up the citadel relay? No problem? Thanks Boss! What a load of my mind. Sorry again for disturbing you.!"


Haha exactly! :) And that's why I'm so pissed about the ending of ME3 and not because of the lack of happy ending. Actually I've never expected that my Shepard will survive, tho I understand those who want a happy ending. I've always expected an ending where you destroy the Reaper base (by activating the Citadel relay. Relays are connected to each other so wherever is the other half of the Citadel relay, there's the Reaper homeworld. It's silly to assume that they just levitating in dark space waiting for the right time. They're probably housed in somekind of enormous space station where they evolve, upgrade and also recharge after each extinction. And probably reproduce themselfes using harvested DNA) which will make them vulnerable. The Galaxy will still need to fight them conventionally but after destroying the base some will just floating around, some might continue the harvest, some might try to make it back to darkspace, so it's a complete blackout for them. Judging from what we learned from ME2 and ME1, Reapers work somehow similar to the geth. By using this ending it would pretty easy to expand the universe forward and you could carry your previous saves into the upcoming game, giving a nice background story shaped my the decision of your Shepard. Similar to Dragon Age.

#162
Slashice

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Also 2 more lore problems:

- Miranda and TIM: In ME2 at the opening sequence we saw that Miranda spoke with TIM in person at his base. Yet in ME3 she cannot provide where he is but placed a tracker on Kai Leng. Dafuq. Miranda was one of TIM's top agent.

- The Reapers moving the Citadel: This puts up to problems.

1st: how did they manage this? For doing so I assume they'd need the Keepers, but the Keepers were sabotaged in ME1. Did they just put some ropes on it and haul it into the Sol system?

2nd: if they gained control over the Citadel why didn't they shut down the relay network like they did in all previous cycles. Suuuure, let just Shepard use the relays to gather strength....

#163
JamesFaith

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Slashice wrote...

Also 2 more lore problems:

- Miranda and TIM: In ME2 at the opening sequence we saw that Miranda spoke with TIM in person at his base. Yet in ME3 she cannot provide where he is but placed a tracker on Kai Leng. Dafuq. Miranda was one of TIM's top agent.


No lore problem here-

TIM's space station was mobile and regulary changing position. (ME:Retribution)

#164
Indy_S

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That giant space station is mobile, huh? That's... that's something. I'd love to know why he's looking at the same sun, then. You know what, I bet that's mobile too.

#165
JamesFaith

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Indy_S wrote...

That giant space station is mobile, huh? That's... that's something. I'd love to know why he's looking at the same sun, then. You know what, I bet that's mobile too.


And how do you know that it was same sun? One red giant is same as another . Or this one had some special form or color?

AnHe moving his station every time after rare visits of few of most trusted operatives (Miranda, Leng) and in case of danger.  (ME: Retribution, Chapter 13)

As cautious as the Illusive Man was with his operatives and operations, he was downright paranoid when it came to protecting this one location. Including Kai Leng, who was on board right now, only six Cerberus field operatives had ever set foot on this space station. Each time one of them visited he had the crew relocate the vessel to another system as soon as the guest departed[/b]."


Modifié par JamesFaith, 07 février 2013 - 01:18 .


#166
Indy_S

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Yeah, it's probably not the same sun. I do wonder if the station has engines or gets towed, though. I get annoyed by how omnipresent and omnipotent Cerberus is in this setting. They seem like they're invincible in the lore but they're presented as completely incapable of purchasing a bottle of milk. Everything they do ends with everybody involved going rogue or killed. So why do they have this awesome space base?

#167
JamesFaith

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Indy_S wrote...

Yeah, it's probably not the same sun. I do wonder if the station has engines or gets towed, though. I get annoyed by how omnipresent and omnipotent Cerberus is in this setting. They seem like they're invincible in the lore but they're presented as completely incapable of purchasing a bottle of milk. Everything they do ends with everybody involved going rogue or killed. So why do they have this awesome space base?


And why do you think this space station is so special? Just because we didn't see any other mobile space station, does it mean that such space station didn't exist?

In fact is logical to assume that in era of huge space travel there would be tow-boats too. When engine of space ship broke down in the middle of nowhere and can't be repaired on place, do you think that they left whole expensive space ship here? No, they would try to draw it to nearest planet or mass relay and repair.

So why not use these tow-boats for moving of TIM's station? 

#168
Indy_S

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Nothing at all is wrong with that but having the explanation of 'Why doesn't Miranda know where the base is?' not present within the narrative is wrong. This game really wants Cerberus to be awesome and I have issues with the writers 'showing not telling' in this regard, too.

#169
Maxster_

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Asch Lavigne wrote...

How did the Asari know they artifact on Thessia would help with the Crucible? I mean if they knew about the Catalyst then they knew about the Crucible which means they knew about the Reapers. Unless they were stupid and just thought "oh we have a Prothean Beacon, the Crucible is Prothean, therefore..." for all they knew it could contain useless information. Or have more visions like the Eden Prime one.

ME3 plot is incoherent retarded nonsense.:wizard:

#170
Maxster_

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BleedingUranium wrote...

Seboist wrote...

iakus wrote...

Lazarus Project


By far one of the most moronic sub-plots in the sequels. It threw any and all credibility of this IP being sci-fi out the window in one fell swoop.


Especially to people who don't bother to research how such things work, like you.

You are in no position to make such claims. ITer=no credibility.

#171
Fredvdp

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In ME1 Shepard needed a helmet when walking on the side of the Citadel Tower. In ME3, Anderson, Shepard and the Illusive Man are standing on the Citadel Tower without a helmet.

#172
Fredvdp

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JamesFaith wrote...

Slashice wrote...

Also 2 more lore problems:

- Miranda and TIM: In ME2 at the opening sequence we saw that Miranda spoke with TIM in person at his base. Yet in ME3 she cannot provide where he is but placed a tracker on Kai Leng. Dafuq. Miranda was one of TIM's top agent.


No lore problem here-

TIM's space station was mobile and regulary changing position. (ME:Retribution)

It seems the station is still orbiting the same dying star. It's possible Miranda was brought to the station instead of ever going on her own. In the case of space stations, you can't just look outside a window and know where you are.

#173
nos_astra

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JamesFaith wrote...
And how do you know that it was same sun? One red giant is same as another . Or this one had some special form or color?

A lack of exposition causes the audience to make assumptions. People don't usually meander through an ocean of possibilities to pick one, so: Space station in front of a star in ME2, space station in front of a star in ME3, should be the same star.

One little mention that it had moved or even better, not having an exclusive view on a dying star would have been awesome. Details matter.

Modifié par klarabella, 07 février 2013 - 04:07 .


#174
o Ventus

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JamesFaith wrote...

And how do you know that it was same sun?


Because unless TIM has an infinite source of H3 to use for fuel (as well as eezo), Cronos isn't  going anywhere. Relay traffic is tracked, as shown by the emails on Liara's computer.

#175
jkflipflopDAO

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Fredvdp wrote...

In ME1 Shepard needed a helmet when walking on the side of the Citadel Tower. In ME3, Anderson, Shepard and the Illusive Man are standing on the Citadel Tower without a helmet.


At this point the citadel has reconfigured itself into "reaper baby maker" mode. It's shifting and changing like a huge transformer. The citadel as we knew it is gone. No more wards. No more embassy offices. All gone. Perhaps they needed to fill the entire structure with our native gasses before construction could start.