252 réponses à ce sujet

[davishepard]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Beyond all the stupidity there is a very real problem.....most are still upset with the ending even after the EC. You could say nothing will please people but that's overly generalistic.....the propper solution may not have to be givinng people IT or conventional victory or whatever but as a company BioWare has to do something to improve the general sentiment or sales of future games will suffer.

Personally I think that a well done reunion scene and/or a well done conventional victory refusal would solve that problem......but not touching the ending is the worst thing they can do.

You have to realize that what you're saying are just opinions and assumptions. No one has the means to forecast how the next ME will sell, but one must admit that most people would at least check it out it's progress. 

Also, a conventional victory will never happen. Doing so would invalidate the very plot of ME3, that is build the Crucible to have a chance to win. All the fleets you spend the game gathering are there to the sole purpose of protect the Crucible docking. They can't stand the Reapers. That's it.

A reunion would fall in the field of the "no post endings DLC" that Bioware keeps reminding since always.

Modifié par davishepard, 07 février 2013 - 01:13 .

[Ieldra]

Darth_Trethon wrote...
Personally I think that a well done reunion scene and/or a well done conventional victory refusal would solve that problem......but not touching the ending is the worst thing they can do.

I do not want them to touch the ending. Not because I don't see any ways of improving things, but because anything they could do that would please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied would compromise the thematic integrity further. A successful Refuse would absolutely destroy the integrity of the whole scenario, and adding a reunion scene would compromise the message of the ending as a whole: It is NOT about Shepard. It is about the future of the galaxy. 

While, on the other hand, those things I would want would most certainly not please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied. So for everyone's peace of mind, it's best to leave things alone.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 février 2013 - 01:08 .

[Yaos]

Can you keep such thread titles to yourself please ? Or use one that actually indicates you're stating your opinion.

[mcgreggers99]

Threads like this are why BSN is eating it's own tail.

NO.

[Wayning_Star]

ending related could require cosmic knowledge.. I don't believe the writers are bothering to equip with that.

but still, just being 'related' to the ending doesn't necessarily mean altering the ending, maybe just information related to it/them. So far, imho, there isn't a clear cut ending/boss fight/we win scenerio. There couldn't actually 'be' one,as the BSN reflects the choices menu and it's flaws/folly.

So yes, the DLC could, but probably will NOT change the ending, if any...but could be related to those. But then again, it could not as well. So there is no answering the OP on it, just continue with the mystery of the choices menu and the results of any given decision for each trusty Shep.

Really there are only two unanswered endings questions: Who wrote the choices and who designed the crucible that invokes those choices? If you pick one, then 'the ending' is already known, but not, clearly, why...

[Darth_Trethon]

davishepard wrote...

You have to realize that what you're saying are just opinions and assumptions. No one has the means to forecast how the next ME will sell, but one must admit that most people would at least check it out it's progress. 

Also, a conventional victory will never happen. Doing so would invalidate the very plot of ME3, that is build the Crucible to have a chance to win. All the fleets you spend the game gathering are there to the sole purpose of protect the Crucible docking. They can't stand the Reapers. That's it.

A reunion would fall in the field of the "no post endings DLC" that Bioware keeps reminding since always.

That's false....very false. When you're talking millions most are not harcore fans or even followers of a developer or franchise. These are the people who are sort of undecided between games A, B, C and D at any given time.....this is where the word of mouth of the core base and how said undecided players feel about the last game in the series play in....and they play in BIG TIME. The reaction to the ending already lost a huge number of the casual players.....nearly everyone that bothered to express any sort of opinion did NOT like the ending and between different feedback sources they had between 100k to 200k players express near unanimous feedback. Most of the casual players were long gone before the EC released playing the new COD or whatever else....once ME4 comes around the only thing they'll remember is how they felt about ME3.

The crucible is also a huge unknown so a desperate straight fight would be just another option....Shepard could just go on the radio and call it a reaper trap. As for how impossible it is.....whatever BioWare says is possible and there are already far more unbelievable things in the franchise, but plenty would appreciate the option. There are other elements like the Miracle of Palven that show the reapers are far more vulnerable in a straight all out fight than they'd have us think.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 07 février 2013 - 01:26 .

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...
Personally I think that a well done reunion scene and/or a well done conventional victory refusal would solve that problem......but not touching the ending is the worst thing they can do.

I do not want them to touch the ending. Not because I don't see any ways of improving things, but because anything they could do that would please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied would compromise the thematic integrity further. A successful Refuse would absolutely destroy the integrity of the whole scenario, and adding a reunion scene would compromise the message of the ending as a whole: It is NOT about Shepard. It is about the future of the galaxy. 

While, on the other hand, those things I would want would most certainly not please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied. So for everyone's peace of mind, it's best to leave things alone.

. EC didnt do that enough?

[Darth_Trethon]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...
Personally I think that a well done reunion scene and/or a well done conventional victory refusal would solve that problem......but not touching the ending is the worst thing they can do.

I do not want them to touch the ending. Not because I don't see any ways of improving things, but because anything they could do that would please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied would compromise the thematic integrity further. A successful Refuse would absolutely destroy the integrity of the whole scenario, and adding a reunion scene would compromise the message of the ending as a whole: It is NOT about Shepard. It is about the future of the galaxy. 

While, on the other hand, those things I would want would most certainly not please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied. So for everyone's peace of mind, it's best to leave things alone.

. EC didnt do that enough?

It's about how people feel about the game.....if people just feel like it's crap they'll go for COD17 over ME4 in a split second. The intended message of the ending and their "artistic integrity" are nothing but pure smelly garbage.

The whole artistic integrity argument was never anything more than bull**** from the very beginning.....this is not art and they have no integrity.

[davishepard]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

That's false....very false. When you're talking millions most are not harcore fans or even followers of a developer or franchise. These are the people who are sort of undecided between games A, B, C and D at any given time.....this is where the word of mouth of the core base and how said undecided players feel about the last game in the series play in....and they play in BIG TIME. The reaction to the ending already lost a huge number of the casual players.....nearly everyone that bothered to express any sort of opinion did NOT like the ending and between different feedback sources they had between 100k to 200k players express near unanimous feedback. Most of the casual players were long gone before the EC released playing the new COD or whatever else....once ME4 comes around the only thing they'll remember is how they felt about ME3.

The crucible is also a huge unknown so a desperate straight fight would be just another option....Shepard could just go on the radio and call it a reaper trap. As for how impossible it is.....whatever BioWare says is possible and there are already far more unbelievable things in the franchise, but plenty would appreciate the option. There are other elements like the Miracle of Palven that show the reapers are far more vulnerable in a straight all out fight than they'd have us think.

You can't claim something is false with assumptions, and you will not have facts to back you up until the mext game is released.

Last time I checked, ME3 had sold 4 million copies in all platforms. How many people had the retake movement? 63 thousand? That's what, 1%? How many ITers are in their particular forum? 360? That's what, 0.009? Sorry, it's not the majority. It may seems like the majority if you watch the people that are complaining only, but no really.

The Crucible is an unknown since the beginning, but people expect it work to how they need to. If this - and the various characters stating this in the game - doesn't tell you how there is no chances the Galaxy win against the Reapers on their own, well... Nothing can do.
Read the Miracle of Palaven again. Then talk to Garrus through the game. At the end, he even have to choose to pull out his men to save then to dock the Crucible.
So yeah.

[FAButzke]

Idiots, idiots everywhere.

[Wayning_Star]

I sense a block soon..

[obZen DF]

You keep learning your whole life, but some people never learn...

[Indy_S]

I feel like soon you will have to eat crow, OP.

[Shallyah]

OP has a valid opinion. but I think they've tired enough of saying that the endings we got is all there is. I don't discard that the new DLC could affect the ending in a way of adding more background to it, but the choices and outcomes will remain the same.

[FAButzke]

obZen DF wrote...

You keep learning your whole life, but some people never learn...

Exactly my point.
I just left a topic where I've explained and explained to no avail. Not going to repeat myself.

[Ieldra]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...
Personally I think that a well done reunion scene and/or a well done conventional victory refusal would solve that problem......but not touching the ending is the worst thing they can do.

I do not want them to touch the ending. Not because I don't see any ways of improving things, but because anything they could do that would please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied would compromise the thematic integrity further. A successful Refuse would absolutely destroy the integrity of the whole scenario, and adding a reunion scene would compromise the message of the ending as a whole: It is NOT about Shepard. It is about the future of the galaxy. 

While, on the other hand, those things I would want would most certainly not please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied. So for everyone's peace of mind, it's best to leave things alone.

EC didnt do that enough?

The EC compromised the thematic integrity of Destroy in order to appease the majority who choose it. I'm not condemning Bioware for that, though I regret it, but it must not go further.

Anyway, it won't happen. It would be hilarous to see the reaction if Bioware told everyone "no, the ending is done" for months, repeating it at every opportunity, and then made significant changes. At this point, they're almost bound to not keep things.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 février 2013 - 02:00 .

[Darth_Trethon]

davishepard wrote...

You can't claim something is false with assumptions, and you will not have facts to back you up until the mext game is released.

Last time I checked, ME3 had sold 4 million copies in all platforms. How many people had the retake movement? 63 thousand? That's what, 1%? How many ITers are in their particular forum? 360? That's what, 0.009? Sorry, it's not the majority. It may seems like the majority if you watch the people that are complaining only, but no really.

The Crucible is an unknown since the beginning, but people expect it work to how they need to. If this - and the various characters stating this in the game - doesn't tell you how there is no chances the Galaxy win against the Reapers on their own, well... Nothing can do.
Read the Miracle of Palaven again. Then talk to Garrus through the game. At the end, he even have to choose to pull out his men to save then to dock the Crucible.
So yeah.

I doubt it was 4 mil....most of their sales came to a near screeching halt once the ending scandal broke and the game saw it's price cut in less than 30 days of release as retailers were flooded with returned copies.

The wiki says 3.5 mil but if you follow the source link it says 1.5 mil.....so very reliable wiki lol. They SHIPPED 3.5 mil.....most of which they failed to sell, BIG difference.

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 07 février 2013 - 02:07 .

[Wayning_Star]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...
Personally I think that a well done reunion scene and/or a well done conventional victory refusal would solve that problem......but not touching the ending is the worst thing they can do.

I do not want them to touch the ending. Not because I don't see any ways of improving things, but because anything they could do that would please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied would compromise the thematic integrity further. A successful Refuse would absolutely destroy the integrity of the whole scenario, and adding a reunion scene would compromise the message of the ending as a whole: It is NOT about Shepard. It is about the future of the galaxy. 

While, on the other hand, those things I would want would most certainly not please the majority of those who are still unsatisfied. So for everyone's peace of mind, it's best to leave things alone.

EC didnt do that enough?

The EC compromised the thematic integrity of Destroy in order to appease the majority who choose it. I'm not condemning Bioware for that, though I regret it, but it must not go further.

Anyway, it won't happen. It would be hilarous to see the reaction if Bioware told everyone "no, the ending is done" for months, repeating it at every opportunity, and then made significant changes. At this point, they're almost bound to not keep things.

folks don't like the idea of synth being probable canon ending..as they suspect it is..reality is a stiff drink in wonderland.

[Steelcan]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The EC compromised the thematic integrity of Destroy in order to appease the majority who choose it. I'm not condemning Bioware for that, though I regret it, but it must not go further.

. That's why I say there is no integrity anymore.  Destroy went from galactic wasteland to bright and sunny, at least in high EMS.  Synthesis went from being the best choice to all choices being equally valid.  

Theres no point in sticking to the original "message", it sucked.

[MattFini]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The EC compromised the thematic integrity of Destroy in order to appease the majority who choose it. I'm not condemning Bioware for that, though I regret it, but it must not go further.

Funnily enough, I kind of agree with you, Ieldra.

As an avid destroyer, I was OK with the pre-EC ending from the position that firing the crucible really hurt the galaxy.

My position has always been how cold the endings left me in terms of closure. Had the original endings had a little character montage, showing the ME2/3 cast fighting reapers when the Crucible fires - and HOW they reacted to it - I would've been perfectly OK with it. 

For me, Mass Effect was a journey that was always more about its characters. And at the end, I would've enjoyed seeing what Shepard's "cost" meant to everyone I fought with across three games. 

That would've been all the closure I needed. That's where I think BioWare failed and I believe they continue to fail. 

That's why the endings will never fully satisfy me - although I have certainly made my peace with them.

 

[Wayning_Star]

Who needs closure? I like the idea that the MEU still runs on, even if on empty.. Sheps 'duty' seems undermined by the 'loss' of closure.. That ol stargazer kept the story for about ever.. lore has it's perks.

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...
The EC compromised the thematic integrity of Destroy in order to appease the majority who choose it. I'm not condemning Bioware for that, though I regret it, but it must not go further.

Anyway, it won't happen. It would be hilarous to see the reaction if Bioware told everyone "no, the ending is done" for months, repeating it at every opportunity, and then made significant changes. At this point, they're almost bound to not keep things.

No offense, but I found the entire "choice" given to Shepard at the end violated the thematic integrity of the entire overarching trilogy.  And we don't even get a non-doomed Shepard to soften the blow.

But you are right.  there won't be any dlc to change things.  And both we and Bioware will have to live with that.

[MattFini]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Who needs closure? I like the idea that the MEU still runs on, even if on empty.. Sheps 'duty' seems undermined by the 'loss' of closure.. That ol stargazer kept the story for about ever.. lore has it's perks.

I do! 

I think the crew of the Normandy deserved more. We spent three games learning about them, helping them work through issues and building some really great relationships.

And it's all pretty much up in the air at the end of the game (much moreso pre-EC).

I can deal with a vague and open-ended fate for the MEU itself - but not the characters.

[FAButzke]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Who needs closure? I like the idea that the MEU still runs on, even if on empty.. Sheps 'duty' seems undermined by the 'loss' of closure.. That ol stargazer kept the story for about ever.. lore has it's perks.

I think the real question should be: Why are we still debating the ending after one year?

[Shallyah]

Steelcan wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The EC compromised the thematic integrity of Destroy in order to appease the majority who choose it. I'm not condemning Bioware for that, though I regret it, but it must not go further.

. That's why I say there is no integrity anymore.  Destroy went from galactic wasteland to bright and sunny, at least in high EMS.  Synthesis went from being the best choice to all choices being equally valid.  

Theres no point in sticking to the original "message", it sucked.

Destroy was never Galactic Wasteland. There was never anything indicating that, as much was left to interpretation. If anything, the EC DLC makes Destroy appear worse than it originally did, as it confirms that the Geth die.

Truth is, only head-canonning Control/Synthesis pickers wanted to believe that Destroy was "Galactic Wasteland" to excuse the utter lack of morality in their own choice.

Modifié par Shallyah, 07 février 2013 - 02:34 .