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Platinum FB Giant Speed Run VIDEO TUTORIAL Guide with Team AreleX by INVADERONE - Time 11:52


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#176
DcIhNaGv3z

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Geek Fest wrote...

DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

this is kind of like a meta game.

Rather then "playing", its more like solving a puzzle. Learning the spawn system, learning how to exploit it, coordinating those efforts, and timing.

I dont mean to criticize what you did, but developers should take note of this video to develop a better spawning system in order to prevent things like this from occurring.


I agree completely with your first point, it is like a completely different sort of game. I'd be sort of bummed out if they changed the spawn system though. I've done hundreds of more conventional runs, doing things like this adds to the variety and longevity of the game.


I can respect that pov. This is a clever use of game mechanics, but this spawn-exploit yields results which were clearly not intended by the designers. I mean, entire rounds some players just stood there doing next-to-nothing but forcing the spawns away.

I put this level of exploitation uncomfortably close to the missile glitch. At least this takes a team coordinated effort. But it saddens me a little that platinum game-play can be rendered down into an 11 minute exploit.

Modifié par DcIhNaGv3z, 07 février 2013 - 09:26 .


#177
Bechter

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Feneckus wrote...

No rocket speed runs are criminally ignored.

Bunch of scrubs nuking spawn after spawn. Meh.


I glad to know when you spawn nuke its the PC Dream team getting together but when others do they are scrubs.;)

#178
INVADERONE

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DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

this is kind of like a meta game.

Rather then "playing", its more like solving a puzzle. Learning the spawn system, learning how to exploit it, coordinating those efforts, and timing.

I dont mean to criticize what you did, but developers should take note of this video to develop a better spawning system in order to prevent things like this from occurring.


I agree completely with your first point, it is like a completely different sort of game. I'd be sort of bummed out if they changed the spawn system though. I've done hundreds of more conventional runs, doing things like this adds to the variety and longevity of the game.


I can respect that pov. This is a clever use of game mechanics, but this spawn-exploit yields results which were clearly not intended by the designers. I mean, entire rounds some players just stood there doing next-to-nothing but forcing the spawns away.

I put this level of exploitation uncomfortably close to the missile glitch. At least this takes a team coordinated effort. But it saddens me a little that platinum game-play can be rendered down into an 11 minute exploit.


Exploit? Missile Glitch? Hmmm..not words or phrases I ever want to be connected to. If anything I'd think speed run tactics show the potential of team based gameplay breaking time. Or do you think the Navy Seals run around without each other just trying to kill with no communication or random ways to kill their targets? No...I am sure a Navy Seal would see this gameplay and think....hmmm...tactical.

I think though in ME4 the spawn system will probably be different. Still...how many times have you probably cursed when you killed a Phantom and then another one is spawned immediately behind you to then instant kill you? With a random spawn system that is not based on player location you will have a lot of that. 

Modifié par INVADERONE, 07 février 2013 - 09:40 .


#179
Geek

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DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

I can respect that pov. This is a clever use of game mechanics, but this spawn-exploit yields results which were clearly not intended by the designers. I mean, entire rounds some players just stood there doing next-to-nothing but forcing the spawns away.

I put this level of exploitation uncomfortably close to the missile glitch. At least this takes a team coordinated effort. But it saddens me a little that platinum game-play can be rendered down into an 11 minute exploit.


It would be fun to hear the devs point of view on this sort of thing. Bryan Johnson mentioned he was the first speed runner.

#180
oXTheReverendXo

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DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

this is kind of like a meta game.

Rather then "playing", its more like solving a puzzle. Learning the spawn system, learning how to exploit it, coordinating those efforts, and timing.

I dont mean to criticize what you did, but developers should take note of this video to develop a better spawning system in order to prevent things like this from occurring.


I agree completely with your first point, it is like a completely different sort of game. I'd be sort of bummed out if they changed the spawn system though. I've done hundreds of more conventional runs, doing things like this adds to the variety and longevity of the game.


I can respect that pov. This is a clever use of game mechanics, but this spawn-exploit yields results which were clearly not intended by the designers. I mean, entire rounds some players just stood there doing next-to-nothing but forcing the spawns away.

I put this level of exploitation uncomfortably close to the missile glitch. At least this takes a team coordinated effort. But it saddens me a little that platinum game-play can be rendered down into an 11 minute exploit.


The thing is, it really isn't an 11m exploit. It takes time/multiple runs to come up with the strategy usually, and even then not every team can execute it. It only becomes an 11m run when everything comes together right. You need good objectives, a solid and well-rehearsed plan, and better than average players to do it this fast.

Regarding your comment about how players spend entire rounds not doing anything, see the link in my sig for some light-hearted humor about that. But be aware that those players are actually "doing" things that aren't readily apparent. Standing a couple meters off of a certain spot or even looking the wrong direction at the wrong time can ruin the spawns.

I suggest you grab some friends and try it. If you get the same times right off the bat, then try a different map and see if you can come up with your own strategy. You'll see that, while a single game may go quickly, the overall approach to speedrunning a map from scratch is quite time-consuming.

#181
INVADERONE

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This thread is so insightful I'm almost afraid to post the new guide where we actually beat a record..... ;)

#182
Guest__only1biggs__*

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as mentioned several times, this is just another way to play. it broadens the game and makes for interesting tactical play. we're usually just playing "normally", but after a while, doing runs like this can liven things up a bit, which can only be for the betterment of the game in general. if you believe it to be exploitative or "cheap", that's fine, but just know that the game is, in general, cheap anyway. this is a co-op game, and there is nothing more cooperative than formulating a strategy and implementing it through a speedrun.

@DcIhNaGv3z - for you to compare this sort of thing to what a missile glitcher would do is pretty moronic. we're not cheating, we're abiding by the game mechanics and trying to get a fast time. we're not doing it for credits (we all have complete manifests). we're just playing in different ways to prolong the life of the game in our own ways. surely that's a good thing?

Modifié par _only1biggs_, 07 février 2013 - 10:07 .


#183
Feneckus

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Bechter wrote...


Feneckus wrote...

No rocket speed runs are criminally ignored.

Bunch of scrubs nuking spawn after spawn. Meh.


I glad to know when you spawn nuke its the PC Dream team getting together but when others do they are scrubs.;)


That was a joke obviously :P

#184
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Feneckus wrote...

Bechter wrote...


Feneckus wrote...

No rocket speed runs are criminally ignored.

Bunch of scrubs nuking spawn after spawn. Meh.


I glad to know when you spawn nuke its the PC Dream team getting together but when others do they are scrubs.;)


That was a joke obviously :P


silly feneckus and his silly jokes

#185
oXTheReverendXo

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INVADERONE wrote...

This thread is so insightful I'm almost afraid to post the new guide where we actually beat a record..... ;)


Which one did you get?

#186
ISHYGDDT

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Geek Fest wrote...

DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

I can respect that pov. This is a clever use of game mechanics, but this spawn-exploit yields results which were clearly not intended by the designers. I mean, entire rounds some players just stood there doing next-to-nothing but forcing the spawns away.

I put this level of exploitation uncomfortably close to the missile glitch. At least this takes a team coordinated effort. But it saddens me a little that platinum game-play can be rendered down into an 11 minute exploit.


It would be fun to hear the devs point of view on this sort of thing. Bryan Johnson mentioned he was the first speed runner.


Given that I played 2 13'ish minute games on Glacier Platinum with him and friends a few weeks ago, I'm going to say this gets the seal of  approval. 

#187
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oXTheReverendXo wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...

This thread is so insightful I'm almost afraid to post the new guide where we actually beat a record..... ;)


Which one did you get?


they did goddess 

#188
INVADERONE

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oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Just finished watching the vid, guys. Great job explaining everything Invaderone. Really impressed by how smooth Wave 7 went with the rockets. That can be a tough one, as half the trash can spawn on the beam.

Just a couple suggestions for the next vid: Maybe you could point out exactly which spawns you're blocking, just so people are aware of the areas they may have to rocket if something goes wrong.

Also, I think it would be neat if you included a wave or two of the in-game communication just to show what that sounds like when you've got a good team humming. Also, everyone should hear the abuse Bechter doles out to his minions before they consider joining sBECHTER X.


Actually the next vid will have the communication in it. I did some narration on some points just so that people understand the strategy but you will be able to hear the team communicate for sure.

As to Bechter's abuse I never got it. lol I guess I have earned the team's respect overall even beforehand. I do learn quickly and also follow when needed. I do not need to lead always. In this situation Bechter, Geekfest, WyldStar and even only1bigg's were my leaders and thus a very well coordinated team effort came out of it that led to this video.

#189
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INVADERONE wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Just finished watching the vid, guys. Great job explaining everything Invaderone. Really impressed by how smooth Wave 7 went with the rockets. That can be a tough one, as half the trash can spawn on the beam.

Just a couple suggestions for the next vid: Maybe you could point out exactly which spawns you're blocking, just so people are aware of the areas they may have to rocket if something goes wrong.

Also, I think it would be neat if you included a wave or two of the in-game communication just to show what that sounds like when you've got a good team humming. Also, everyone should hear the abuse Bechter doles out to his minions before they consider joining sBECHTER X.


Actually the next vid will have the communication in it. I did some narration on some points just so that people understand the strategy but you will be able to hear the team communicate for sure.

As to Bechter's abuse I never got it. lol I guess I have earned the team's respect overall even beforehand. I do learn quickly and also follow when needed. I do not need to lead always. In this situation Bechter, Geekfest, WyldStar and even only1bigg's were my leaders and thus a very well coordinated team effort came out of it that led to this video.


things would go alot smoother if you didn't have muscles in your ear canals, that way you could listen better. bicep ears

#190
oXTheReverendXo

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INVADERONE wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Just finished watching the vid, guys. Great job explaining everything Invaderone. Really impressed by how smooth Wave 7 went with the rockets. That can be a tough one, as half the trash can spawn on the beam.

Just a couple suggestions for the next vid: Maybe you could point out exactly which spawns you're blocking, just so people are aware of the areas they may have to rocket if something goes wrong.

Also, I think it would be neat if you included a wave or two of the in-game communication just to show what that sounds like when you've got a good team humming. Also, everyone should hear the abuse Bechter doles out to his minions before they consider joining sBECHTER X.


Actually the next vid will have the communication in it. I did some narration on some points just so that people understand the strategy but you will be able to hear the team communicate for sure.

As to Bechter's abuse I never got it. lol I guess I have earned the team's respect overall even beforehand. I do learn quickly and also follow when needed. I do not need to lead always. In this situation Bechter, Geekfest, WyldStar and even only1bigg's were my leaders and thus a very well coordinated team effort came out of it that led to this video.


Bechter's abuse comes AFTER you get his respect, lol. It's a key part of being in Team NaNaNa BooBoo. At any rate, I hope I'm on early enough this week to catch a run or two with you guys. I know we wanted to bring the Jade and Goddess times down, but it sounds like you guys took care of the latter.B)

#191
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Rev you'll be happy to know we went ahead and did condor without you. Rio and Vancouver await.

#192
oXTheReverendXo

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Geek Fest wrote...

Rev you'll be happy to know we went ahead and did condor without you. Rio and Vancouver await.


I and my meager amount of remaining AR amps and AP ammo sincerely thank you from the bottom of my heart. :wub:

Looking forward to the other runs. I'll check the group to see if you guys have cooked up a strategy yet. I think I have an idea for Rio, but I'll let the masters decide if it would work.

#193
DcIhNaGv3z

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INVADERONE wrote...
Exploit? Missile Glitch? Hmmm..not words or phrases I ever want to be connected to. If anything I'd think speed run tactics show the potential of team based gameplay breaking time. Or do you think the Navy Seals run around without each other just trying to kill with no communication or random ways to kill their targets? No...I am sure a Navy Seal would see this gameplay and think....hmmm...tactical.

I think though in ME4 the spawn system will probably be different. Still...how many times have you probably cursed when you killed a Phantom and then another one is spawned immediately behind you to then instant kill you? With a random spawn system that is not based on player location you will have a lot of that. 


I really didnt mean to criticize. I do recognize the meta game / puzzle solving quality of what you did, and the skillful execution of your game knowledge. This level of spawn-exploitation cant be achieved by just anyone, it takes a well coordinated group, and a clear understanding of what you are doing.

Game Speed running in-and-of-itself is built on the backbone of game exploits and sequence breaks, all in the name of speed. Its not about taking the intended path, its about going fast. Take pretty much any speed run from speeddeomosarchive, they all contain exploits/shortcuts. Hell, I have done my own speed runs of Metroid Prime (had a world record once), filled with exploits and shortcuts. But its all done in the name of time (or lack there of).

Me calling it an exploit was not meant to tag you as "cheater". But it remains nonetheless a spawn-exploit. And I think BioWare game designers can learn from this video, which could ultimately help lead to a better spawn system.

#194
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DcIhNaGv3z wrote...

INVADERONE wrote...
Exploit? Missile Glitch? Hmmm..not words or phrases I ever want to be connected to. If anything I'd think speed run tactics show the potential of team based gameplay breaking time. Or do you think the Navy Seals run around without each other just trying to kill with no communication or random ways to kill their targets? No...I am sure a Navy Seal would see this gameplay and think....hmmm...tactical.

I think though in ME4 the spawn system will probably be different. Still...how many times have you probably cursed when you killed a Phantom and then another one is spawned immediately behind you to then instant kill you? With a random spawn system that is not based on player location you will have a lot of that. 


I really didnt mean to criticize. I do recognize the meta game / puzzle solving quality of what you did, and the skillful execution of your game knowledge. This level of spawn-exploitation cant be achieved by just anyone, it takes a well coordinated group, and a clear understanding of what you are doing.

Game Speed running in-and-of-itself is built on the backbone of game exploits and sequence breaks, all in the name of speed. Its not about taking the intended path, its about going fast. Take pretty much any speed run from speeddeomosarchive, they all contain exploits/shortcuts. Hell, I have done my own speed runs of Metroid Prime (had a world record once), filled with exploits and shortcuts. But its all done in the name of time (or lack there of).

Me calling it an exploit was not meant to tag you as "cheater". But it remains nonetheless a spawn-exploit. And I think BioWare game designers can learn from this video, which could ultimately help lead to a better spawn system.


for you to compare this sort of thing to what a missile glitcher would do is pretty moronic. we're not cheating, we're abiding by the game mechanics and trying to get a fast time. we're not doing it for credits (we all have complete manifests). we're just playing in different ways to prolong the life of the game in our own ways. surely that's a good thing?

#195
Bechter

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oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Bechter's abuse comes AFTER you get his respect, lol. It's a key part of being in Team NaNaNa BooBoo. At any rate, I hope I'm on early enough this week to catch a run or two with you guys. I know we wanted to bring the Jade and Goddess times down, but it sounds like you guys took care of the latter.B)


I think you are jumping the gun on the whole earning my respect. :D It's hard to respect a man who cheers for a team whose mascot is a Duck.:P I have never trusted any animals that have bills where there lips should be. :devil:

Modifié par Bechter, 08 février 2013 - 02:52 .


#196
oXTheReverendXo

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Bechter wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Bechter's abuse comes AFTER you get his respect, lol. It's a key part of being in Team NaNaNa BooBoo. At any rate, I hope I'm on early enough this week to catch a run or two with you guys. I know we wanted to bring the Jade and Goddess times down, but it sounds like you guys took care of the latter.B)


I think you are jumping the gun on the whole earning my respect. :D It's hard to respect a man who cheers for a team whose mascot is a Duck.:P I have never trusted any animals that have bills where there lips should be. :devil:


What was that? Sorry, I was watching some highlights from the season and I couldn't hear you over the sobbing sound the ASU crowd was making during that 43-7 first half...:devil:

#197
Bechter

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oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Bechter wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Bechter's abuse comes AFTER you get his respect, lol. It's a key part of being in Team NaNaNa BooBoo. At any rate, I hope I'm on early enough this week to catch a run or two with you guys. I know we wanted to bring the Jade and Goddess times down, but it sounds like you guys took care of the latter.B)


I think you are jumping the gun on the whole earning my respect. :D It's hard to respect a man who cheers for a team whose mascot is a Duck.:P I have never trusted any animals that have bills where there lips should be. :devil:


What was that? Sorry, I was watching some highlights from the season and I couldn't hear you over the sobbing sound the ASU crowd was making during that 43-7 first half...:devil:


At least we didn't lost to those hippies at Stanford :) Inb4WeDidn'tPlayThem,:D

#198
oXTheReverendXo

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Bechter wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Bechter wrote...

oXTheReverendXo wrote...

Bechter's abuse comes AFTER you get his respect, lol. It's a key part of being in Team NaNaNa BooBoo. At any rate, I hope I'm on early enough this week to catch a run or two with you guys. I know we wanted to bring the Jade and Goddess times down, but it sounds like you guys took care of the latter.B)


I think you are jumping the gun on the whole earning my respect. :D It's hard to respect a man who cheers for a team whose mascot is a Duck.:P I have never trusted any animals that have bills where there lips should be. :devil:


What was that? Sorry, I was watching some highlights from the season and I couldn't hear you over the sobbing sound the ASU crowd was making during that 43-7 first half...:devil:


At least we didn't lost to those hippies at Stanford :) Inb4WeDidn'tPlayThem,:D


You didn't play them. Also, there are more hippies here than at Stanford.B)

By the way, how bad was USC this year? They couldn't beat anyone decent...:whistle::devil:

#199
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We can both appreciate the downfall of USC lets hope the give Kiffin a extension.

#200
oXTheReverendXo

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Bechter wrote...

We can both appreciate the downfall of USC lets hope the give Kiffin a extension.


QFT