95 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 'Made a thread about this.

[themikefest]

Maybe just have femshep convince Casper to leave the galaxy with his toys. Not sure if that would be possible. She was able to convince TIM to shoot himself as well as Saren.

[D1ck1e]

Dr.Freeman wrote...

I would expand the destroy ending. Meanwhile I'm good with control and synthesis, but I want to know wtf happened to my character in destroy. Why is that so difficult to understand ?!
Don't tell me anything about "he's alive because of breath scene" - THAT IS GARBAGE !!
Seriously, I would be fine with the endings, if there only was an extended destroy ending. Maybe Hackett's speach in the end would include what happened to Shepard or Shepard him/herself would speak. It could be so easy.

iakus wrote...

Destroy ending:

Memorial scene, as LI hesitates, have report come over intercom: Shepard has been found alive

Replace breath scene with EDI's "corpse". Eyes momentarilly flicker.

THIS

[Dr.Freeman]

crimzontearz wrote...

Dr.Freeman wrote...

I
would expand the destroy ending. Meanwhile I'm good with control and
synthesis, but I want to know wtf happened to my character in destroy.
Why is that so difficult to understand ?!
Don't tell me anything about "he's alive because of breath scene" - THAT IS GARBAGE !!
Seriously,
I would be fine with the endings, if there only was an extended destroy
ending. Maybe Hackett's speach in the end would include what happened
to Shepard or Shepard him/herself would speak. It could be so
easy.

if they did that even LESS people would pick synthesis or
Control...I guess that is their line of thinking but all quotes from
BEFORE the interpretation BS started say he is alive....straight from
senior devs like Preston and Brenon

Yes, but why would they care so much about what ending I choose ? Since I have my free will, I would like to end the game how I want to. Besides, I would not hate synthesis or control so much, if there was an extended destroy. My canon playthrough would end with destroy, yes, but I would have no problem to end my other playthroughs with control or synthesis, but since there's no closure in destroy, I ignore the other options.

Adding a little more information about Shep, does not change the destroy ending...

[Iakus]

crimzontearz wrote...

iakus wrote...

Destroy ending:

Memorial scene, as LI hesitates, have report come over intercom: Shepard has been found alive

Replace breath scene with EDI's "corpse". Eyes momentarilly flicker.

I could live with that

I'm trying to kep the changes minimal.  One extra line.  One altered scene for "speculations"

[AdmiralCheez]

- More hints of the Reapers' motives, possibly through an indoctrinated character. This could help foreshadow the choices the Catalyst will give you.

- More discussion about the Crucible; you should find out more about it the closer it gets to completion. This way, you'll get hints about the collateral damage required in the Destroy ending, and perhaps clues about its alternative functions.

- Occasional hints that the child might never have existed at all, plus more emphasis on the subtleties of indoctrination. Get Shepard to question her actions and motives a little. Also, this can be used as an excuse for the dreamlike quality of the final conversation. Questioning the Catalyst would lend additional validation to Destruction and Refusal.

- Discussion of the whole organics vs. synthetics thing. There should be more conversations about the fundamental differences between the two, along with possible ways to bridge the gap between them. This would help validate Synthesis, as it would have stronger relation to a central (if last-minute) theme.

- Less "lol indoctrination" when it comes to The Illusive Man. Make him of sounder mind, and have Cerberus more deeply involved in gaining intel on both the Crucible and the inner workings of the Reapers. This would help validate Control, as there would be evidence behind it to make it more plausible.

[impingu1984]

 I don't actually think many want to CHANGE the endings...

I think most just want a little expansion on what we have where we know 100% Shep lives...

There has been loads of suggestions on how to do this...

IF BW do it and I would be totally happy with it, but I don't think they will.

Modifié par impingu1984, 07 février 2013 - 04:59 .

[crimzontearz]

Dr.Freeman wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Dr.Freeman wrote...

I
would expand the destroy ending. Meanwhile I'm good with control and
synthesis, but I want to know wtf happened to my character in destroy.
Why is that so difficult to understand ?!
Don't tell me anything about "he's alive because of breath scene" - THAT IS GARBAGE !!
Seriously,
I would be fine with the endings, if there only was an extended destroy
ending. Maybe Hackett's speach in the end would include what happened
to Shepard or Shepard him/herself would speak. It could be so
easy.

if they did that even LESS people would pick synthesis or
Control...I guess that is their line of thinking but all quotes from
BEFORE the interpretation BS started say he is alive....straight from
senior devs like Preston and Brenon

Yes, but why would they care so much about what ending I choose ? Since I have my free will, I would like to end the game how I want to. Besides, I would not hate synthesis or control so much, if there was an extended destroy. My canon playthrough would end with destroy, yes, but I would have no problem to end my other playthroughs with control or synthesis, but since there's no closure in destroy, I ignore the other options.

Adding a little more information about Shep, does not change the destroy ending...

hubris really


 
Or maybe not to ****** off the ITers

[Fixers0]

A thorough rewrite of both Mass Effect 2&3.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

themikefest wrote...

Maybe just have femshep convince Casper to leave the galaxy with his toys. Not sure if that would be possible. She was able to convince TIM to shoot himself as well as Saren.

Pretty much this, Shepard's failure to stand up against the catalyst and (attempt to) beat him verbally is the greatest flaw in the ending.

[AdmiralCheez]

Lizardviking wrote...

Pretty much this, Shepard's failure to stand up against the catalyst and (attempt to) beat him verbally is the greatest flaw in the ending.

Not THE greatest, but it's definitely towards the top of the list.  Shepard's passive acceptance of the Catalyst's ultimatum was horrifically out of character, not to mention it in direct contradiction to what many, many players were feeling at the time.  I'd say the Catalyst itself is the greatest flaw in the ending, followed closely by the conversion of all those fleets and soldiers and characters and whatnot into mere, stinking points.  Points!  Way to make the experience cheap and impersonal, amirite?

[Steelcan]

Add in the option to ask the Catalyst about Rannoch. Show him that organics are not doomed to extinction at the hands of synthetics. In fact we can beat them.

Or an option to disagree with him. Tell the Catalyst what you think of his disingenuous assertions.

Oh well I guess a few bullets and a red explosion will suffice

That said I still think the whole ghost child was a horrible idea. I'd have preferred a choice between Control or Destroy and having to talk down/kill Anderson/TIM.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Pretty much this, Shepard's failure to stand up against the catalyst and (attempt to) beat him verbally is the greatest flaw in the ending.

Not THE greatest, but it's definitely towards the top of the list.  Shepard's passive acceptance of the Catalyst's ultimatum was horrifically out of character, not to mention it in direct contradiction to what many, many players were feeling at the time.  I'd say the Catalyst itself is the greatest flaw in the ending, followed closely by the conversion of all those fleets and soldiers and characters and whatnot into mere, stinking points.  Points!  Way to make the experience cheap and impersonal, amirite?

Well, I see your point. But the presence of the catalyst is more of an issue of the story as a whole, it can be argued that he is not just a problem contained in the last 10 minutes as opposed to Shepard acting OOC in the final conversation. Due to him being mentioned briefly on Thessia. The same goes for the lack of war assets being displayed, that is an issue with the endgame as a whole and not just the last 10 minutes.


That does not mean I am defending the catalyst, quite the contary, he is by far the worst concept to be added to the Mass Effect franchise.

[Slashice]

Here's some stuff that needs to be fixed/explained.

- According to ME1 lore, Vigil told us that when the Reapers poured through the Citadel relay, the shut down the whole relay network, crippling the Prothean empire, forcing them to fight from planet to planet, system to system (even Javik told this in ME3). That's why the extinction took quite some time for the Reapers, and that's why only a few (probably dozen) Prothean scientist survived in cryo. So why didn't the Reapers even tried to capture the Citadel and shut down the relay network? It doesn't make sense at all! Harbinger know Shepard, know what he's up to, yet letting him to use the relays?

- Mars archives: all of sudden Liara and TIM discovers the Cruicible plan on the archives. Humans studied the archives from the very beginning, that's led to the Charon dormant relay. And we only discover such thing now? It's out of place and according to my first point, Shepard's first route should be into the Citadel, using the data from Vigil and seal the station. That's the only way to protect it from the Reapers since they don't have a control over the Keepers (according to ME1 lore) so they cannot open it remotely. Also, according to ME2 lore, Vigil is not more functional so they won't be able to use the Ilos backdoor relay. Yes, this would make impossible to play on the Citadel, yet it would fit perfectly into the lore.

- The catalyst: As it is said, he's embodies the collective intelligence of all Reapers, and the Citadel is part of him. According to ME1 lore, the Keepers controlled by the Citadel. The Protheans used the conduit to go back to the Citadel and sabotaged the Keepers. So yes, they place a mass relay on the Citadel, "on" the catalyst, then sabotaged the Keepers, those Keepers who controlled by the Citadel thus by the Catalyst. Yet the Catalyst didn't sent a note to the other Reapers about the sabotage. Sovereign had to start an investigation to find out why didn't the Keepers respond to his signal, that finally led to Saren and we all know what happened with Saren.

- Pointless hintings and foreshadowing in ME2: It was hinted that the final coflict will be something involves dark energy and has to do something with human genetic diversity. None of this ever mentioned in ME2. In ME1 at the description of Dis planet about the Leviathans they wrote about a derelict genetically engineered space ship. In ME2 it is revealed that it's probably a Reapers since Reapers are do genetically engineered - that's how hintings work. Also in ME1 at the Klencory planet desricption it is stated that the beings of light are supposed to protect organics from machine devils and they have a crypt on the planet. This crypt part has removed in ME3 yet it would've been to place to find the blue prints of the Cruicible. Would've made more sense then the Mars archives....

- Meaningless Reapers in ME3: According to ME1 and ME2 the Reapers are some godlike sentient race of machines. In ME3 they're just tools without free will, who cannot even explain why are they doing what are they doing. In ME1 and ME2 both Sovereign and Harbinger had a big role. We even had en epic conversation with Sovereign. They were both masterminds, free of all weaknesess, independents, each a nation. In ME3 they're just tools even Harbinger himself. Also at the end of ME2 we saw at least 4-5 Reapers with different models and shapes suggesting that after each harvest the Reapers keep this cuttlefish style but yet they have a slightly unique look. Ofcourse not for all that would be pointless and impossible to make it in game. Howewer it does show a way how Reapers probably evolved over the billions of years. In ME3 we only see a slightly modified version of Sovereign and ALL the Reapers look like this (don't count those silly Destroyers and that possible "troop transport" Reaper hologram in the N7 mission). Even Harbinger's ME2 model were put in the bin and share the same model as the other Sovereign class Reapers, only he lacks the middle "leg" and has glowing eyes.

- The Reapers moving the Citadel: This puts up to problems.

1st: how did they manage this? For doing so I assume they'd need the Keepers, but the Keepers were sabotaged in ME1. Did they just put some ropes on it and haul it into the Sol system?

2nd: if they gained control over the Citadel why didn't they shut down the relay network like they did in all previous cycles. Suuuure, let just Shepard use the relays to gather strength....

Modifié par Slashice, 07 février 2013 - 05:24 .

[Steelcan]

Well the Normandy could probably bypass anything the reapers did to lock down the relays. It would register as a reaper ship.

[Atekimagus]

Well it's fan to headcanon so here is how I would do the last DLC "without" changing the original endings, just by adding stuff.

Now these are only broad brush-strokes, I did not make a detailed account what happened to every character (I managed only one playthrough so I don't even know exactly were everyone was during this "ending" or how folks like Ashley are suddenly on the Normandy again, so bear with me:

1. Add to the farewell dialogue with all people you just can call. (Jacob, Grunt, Cortez etc.) You still say farewell to each at the end but make it more of a tactical briefing establishing exactly were they are and what they have to do. (Hold the line to give Hammer a shot at the beam). After each talk we see a brief scene from the teammates POV,
just a few seconds showing how they prepare themselves for what is to come. (Godbye Shepard and a few seconds, checking weapons or something and establishing where they are and with whom, maybe one or two lines of dialoge.)

2. Arrange it so that when you call your teammates you see that they now fight in unlikely pairs as subtle reminder that **** is very very real. For example you see that Miranda, Jacob and Jack + pupils have teamed up as biotic component, maybe with Samara a bit on the side meditating. (cerberus and it's victims) Grunt is with Kyrahee
(Salarians and Krogan), Cortez is with Vitctus (Human and Turians) etc. etc.

3. Ok, we continue with business as usual to the point where you evactue your two squadmates. That's the first big plothole that needs fixing. We see the Normandy coming in. While we rush towards it we see Joker briefly swearing, urging them on and wondering why Harbinger isn't blasting them out of the sky. Make a shot were you see harbinger focusing on the Normandy. He doesn't fire because he finally recognizes who it is charging at him and starts into one of those brilliant monoluges reapers are so good at. (Shepard....why do you still resist or something along these lines.)

4. Business as usual, the endings roll with the only exception that now every ending except refusal has those creppy oily special effects during the photomontage and each voiceover (Hackett, EDI and Shepard) is also spoken by Harbinger and every ending has now Shepard lying in the rubble in london. We see Harbinger taking off. Now depending on your choices he has a few partingwords for you. Destroy, Synthesis and Control means his indoctrination was successful to various degrees so he gloats one sentence or two while taking off (cycle cannot be broken), if you refuse him he his furious but it doesn't matter since husks start to poor out from the citadel-beam and he leaves you to die in any event.

5. Cut to your squadmates who hear the message that Hammer has been destroyed with no survivors. Show their despair a bit about Shepard "except" the LI or person closet to him at that moment. Now it's time to get creative. Each LI "knows" that he/she isn't dead for some reason or the other. (For example Miranda didn't install a control chip, but coupled a small QES device with shepards synthetic parts. A small device around her neck shows her no matter in the galaxy were she is if he is ok or not. Calculating but sweet. Or we can see Jack swearing and getting bat**** mad like she does, have a small unspoken rapport with her pupils and than charges off with them in Shepards direction.) Point is the LI, Person closet to Shepard charges off, compromises the line and forces
the hand of the rest of the teammates who also don't care about holding the line anymore but charge off towards Shepard. How it is done is irrelevant, just have your team converge on Shepards position somehow.

6. Cut to shepard with the husk closing in. Of course your teammates arrive just in time to save them. While the combat oriented ones establish a perimeter, the LI and more science-oriented start patching Shepard up who isn't as badly wounded as thought. Hurt but still functional. Now your choices of the endings come into play. If you refused Harbinger you are not indoctrinated. If you didn't only your friends and people closest to you manage to break the indoctrination similar to Lady Benezia when she saw her daughter. They know that it's not perfect and that he/she probably needs watching but for the time being Shepard is semi-funtional.

7. Since husks are closing in on them from behind and from the front the only way is forward so they fight their way
towards the beam since the basic objective hasn't changed yet. Now instead on arriving in a dump they arrive in a full blown husk conversion fabric and have to fight their way clear on the citadal. That is basically where the new game-play element starts. (Rumours have it the new DLC will be on or about the citadel). As soon as they are clear AVINA appears, we can question her a bit about what happened, how the citadel come to be here etc. (It's ok to have her say...i don't know howthe **** the reapers moved the station, just acknowledge it that this is ****ing strange).

8. Now the very last mission is Priority: Citadel and we have something similar to the suicide run. We have to get
to the citadel tower to open the station, however AVINA tells us about survivors on the citadel, and the disposition of reaper forces. Add a few more objectives. Sealing of some wards so that reapers might not poor through and start huskifiying people. Restore power somewhere to get the escalator working etc. Point is you have to SPLIT UP your team. At this point ALL surviving squadmember who ever were are with Shepard at this point (except those on the crucible, like Goto). If you have notenough people left, you need to prioritzie your objectives, possible
forcing you to leave something ideal but nonessential out, or sending only one or two people. (Choices...they should matter.)

9.
Everyone rushes like mad towards their objective. And here comes the new gameplay-element into play. We play Shepard and his two squadmates on the way to the tower. But it is played in turn. You play Shepard until acertain waypoint. Then you switch to the team restoring power with the character you put in charge, then you play the team sealing off the wards with the character you put in charge, then back to Shepard who continues towards the tower all building towards a climax. Shepard arrives at the tower the moment team a manages to unlock the escalator
and team b manages to seal off a ward and team c...etc. etc. . You know what I mean.

10. Depending on your choices with Harbinger, the indoctrination was more or less successful. Shepard has small backslidesinto it. First time he/she comes out himself but it gets worse from time to time. At the point where every team reached it's objective and Shepard stands before the citadel master control panel like in ME1 (the
game comes full cycle) Shepard is either still himself or becomes indoctrinated if you don't have enough war assets or whatever filter youlike to apply for determining success. If he becomes indoctrinated, buthas his LI in the squad, he might still make one saving throw and opensthe citadel. If not he needs a krogan headbutt to come to his/her senses a final time. If you played ****ty, you just cannot do it alone, you need your friends to save your ass, but you still get your ending. Point is, indoctrination should affect Shepard on the way to the tower since it is nothing one could throw off like "a flesh wound".

11.
End plays out as following. The cataclyst was the citadel, enabling the crucible to disable the eezzoo cores on reapers, rendering them basically helpless and without shields but the creppy starchild never existed. That was just Harbinger ****ing with your mind. (Fixing the big plothole which renders the whole ME1 moot). We see a Victory montage where the combined fleets rips the reapers a new one. Now depending on how successfull you were, how many people you managed to bring aboard the citadel with you (which depends on your success in the previous games and war assets) the reapers are destroyed but you suffer looses based onthose choices. (With never loosing a squadmate of course the most successfull play). That are your different endings, they reflect just
how good or bad you have played throughout the game.

12. Have an epilogue. Not a picture montage but a REAL epiloge similar to ME2 were you can wander the ship a final time and get everyones opinion. Could becompletely cheesy Star Wars A new Hope medal on the chest slapping ceremony or something, point is EVERYONE you know (and still lives) should get at least a few last words with you. No matter if it's immediatly on the citadel or a bit later back on the Normandy. (I would
prefer Normandy).

13. The End.


Well, at least that's what I would do, when I am not allowed to rewrite the whole thing. Maybe it's conventional and less artistic......but when in doubt, go with the classics.

Modifié par Atekimagus, 07 février 2013 - 05:32 .

[CrazyRah]

iakus wrote...

Destroy ending:

Memorial scene, as LI hesitates, have report come over intercom: Shepard has been found alive

Replace breath scene with EDI's "corpse". Eyes momentarilly flicker.

I'm so aboard this. This would be perfect for me. 

[AdmiralCheez]

@Lizardviking: Okay, talking specifically about the last ten minutes, Shep's "hurrdurr whatever you say Mr. Starkid" is pretty much the worst part.  Perhaps Bioware was all like, "If we show Shepard accepting the Catalyst, maybe the players will accept it, too.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Shepard having any opinions independently of my input.  Control freaky?  Maybe a little bit, but the dialogue wheel exists and I'd like them to use it.  Same thing goes for the dreams, really: I'll decide whether or not I feel sorry for the kid or how worried I am about failure.  If they really wanted the situation to seem hopeless/desperate, they should have made it clear through gameplay or character interaction.  Video games are about doing, not showing.

To continue on this off-topic tangent, as the one controlling Shepard's words and actions, I feel entitled to what's going on inside her head.  That's why the dreams felt so forced and alien, I think, and led me to wonder if Shepard was indoctrinated.  Instead of Bioware trying to contol how I felt, I pretended it was the Reapers.

Circling back to the original subject: "OMG Shep's indoctrinated!" helps me rationalize her passiveness in the final scene.  This doesn't mean I'm an ITer because I don't believe it was ever Bioware's intention.

[o Ventus]

For high EMS Destroy, just have a little reunion scene of Shepard waking up in a hospital bed with his or her LI standing beside them.

If no romance, then take the squadmate with the highest relationship progress.

[mvaning]

Allow the quarian/geth alliance to give war assets to "finish" the crucible. That way when you pick the destroy option, you are not committing genocide and killing EDI. Perhaps in the process, the explosion actually does kill shepard.

If you save Wrex and cure the genophage, there should also be some sort of bonus for the control option. Maybe allow the husks/cannibals to die? Even though they are controlled, being those creatures would surely be awful.

Synthesis seems wrong on every level. Rape of the natural world; forcing people to become what they do not want to become. Not to mention the husks/maunders/cannibals now have to be self aware of their horrible existance? Synthesis seems like letting the reapers win IMO. Not sure how to fix that.

[Chala]

Simple:
By making it longer.

The ending is too fast for a trilogy with so many good characters and conflicts. Stories like LotR or MGS have a very fitting end because it were given enough time to develop all it's potential, answering all important questions and giving you a few loose ends to show you how life could be after the principal events (Like Frodo going to Valinor or Snake living his last days at peace).

ME3 does not do that and this is the reason why it feels underwhelming: The amount of time dedicated to it is just too small.

Modifié par El_Chala_Legalizado, 07 février 2013 - 06:05 .

[AlanC9]

Brhino wrote...

Many of us still find the ending incredibly dissappointing, however, and we were really hoping that the DLC would find some way to fix that.

Is there some way we could have both?  Something that could be added to the middle of the story that would change things so significantly that the ending is improved without actually being changed?

Isn't the answer to this question entirely dependent on what you consider the problem to be?

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 février 2013 - 06:02 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Another thing that could improve the ending slightly.

Replace the current Anderson dialog with the original version (or a variation of it to make it fit lore more). Because the current version is just lame.

[BirdsallSa]

Shepard should be able to disagree with Control on the grounds that he believes it's wrong/foolish, not just "I didn't come this far to give up everything I have." There should also be a black and white downside to picking control. The fact that control and synthesis are portrayed as outright better than destroy is so ridiculous, considering that was the goal of the game the whole time and the other two were methods consistently used by the enemy.

[Reofeir]

Problems I have would be fixed if these topics are explained:
How do you move the citadel so easily?
How come catalyst couldn't control the citadel in ME1?
Make the scene a little longer for the Shepard lives in order to confirm he is, in fact, alive.
Make references, foreshadow, synthesis before we get to the catalyst.