468 réponses à ce sujet

[dorktainian]

well the game file is called something like shep_alive (cant remember the exact name) so everything that needs to be said it right there.

[Nightvayne5749]

Got the breathe scene without mp or DLC at 3800 ems or higher everytime.On another profile I have.

[1337b0r0m1r]

People still fretting about the "last breath"... even if you disregard that BioWare suggests that Shepard does indeed survive, as some previous posters already pointed out, just use reasonable expectations.
Yes, the very last scene of "Avatar" could mean that Jake Sully is just having a last seizure or something, but c'mon... if you see a scene like that in a movie, the hero always survives.

Regardless, why do people hate any form of ambiguity so much? Not all questions need to be answered at the end of a story. Some better aren't.

[PainCakesx]

1337b0r0m1r wrote...

People still fretting about the "last breath"... even if you disregard that BioWare suggests that Shepard does indeed survive, as some previous posters already pointed out, just use reasonable expectations.
Yes, the very last scene of "Avatar" could mean that Jake Sully is just having a last seizure or something, but c'mon... if you see a scene like that in a movie, the hero always survives.

Regardless, why do people hate any form of ambiguity so much? Not all questions need to be answered at the end of a story. Some better aren't.

Some are. This isn't one of those things.

I don't hate ambiguity. I liked Inception, which was a giant box of ambiguity. Mass Effect has always been explicit in its narrative - to leave one of the most important aspects of the story ambiguous without any justification leads to an anticathartic end to the character arc. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 09 février 2013 - 10:30 .

[Synergizer]

This reminds me of the ending in Inception, was the spinning top going to stop? we don't know for sure. Those type of things are usually added just to make the endings a bit ambiguous - using Inception as an example, who would question if he was still dreaming if it weren't for the spinning top being added in at the end? Bioware added this N7 soldier (could be anyone in N7) gasping back to life to provoke conversation. The answer is not important, it's about interpretation. And since the Shepard character will not be appearing in any new N7 games, Shepard could live or die - you're still not going to play as that character any further.

[Reorte]

dorktainian wrote...

well the game file is called something like shep_alive (cant remember the exact name) so everything that needs to be said it right there.

Having to dig into the game and look at what the file names say doesn't say everything. There's nothing to stop the file being called javik_sings.

Whilst it seems that the intention of the scene is to show Shepard alive everything contained purely within that scene says he's screwed. You've got to look at file names and second-guess the developer's intentions to come to another conclucions (even if it's not a hard one to arrive at) and that, IMO, makes it an incredibly badly written piece of storytelling. It should be able to get its message across unambiguously to someone with no imagination or any experience of fiction unless there's a good reason for it to be ambiguous.

[PainCakesx]

Synergizer wrote...

This reminds me of the ending in Inception, was the spinning top going to stop? we don't know for sure. Those type of things are usually added just to make the endings a bit ambiguous - using Inception as an example, who would question if he was still dreaming if it weren't for the spinning top being added in at the end? Bioware added this N7 soldier (could be anyone in N7) gasping back to life to provoke conversation. The answer is not important, it's about interpretation. And since the Shepard character will not be appearing in any new N7 games, Shepard could live or die - you're still not going to play as that character any further.

Leaving the character's fate up to interpretation is a cop-out. Inception worked because the entire movie was based on the premise of questioning reality - what's a dream and what isn't?

Mass Effect had no such theme. The narrative was straightforward and linear. The plot was explicit and defined. Inception earned, in a narrative sense, its ambiguous ending. Mass Effect didn't - insead of coming off as profound ,it comes off as cheap sequel baiting for a game that is never going to come. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 09 février 2013 - 11:00 .

[wright1978]

PainCakesx wrote...

Leaving the character's fate up to interpretation is a cop-out. Inception worked because the entire movie was based on the premise of questioning reality - what's a dream and what isn't?

Mass Effect had no such theme. The narrative was straightforward and linear. The plot was explicit and defined. Inception earned, in a narrative sense, its ambiguous ending. Mass Effect didn't - insead of coming off as profound ,it comes off as cheap sequel baiting for a game that is never going to come. 

Yep it is a cop out, though it is 100 times worse to promise clarification/closure, add that to other endings and then try and hold up an ambiguity shield. Cheap and nasty and it is certainly something i won't let slide in a hurry.

[1337b0r0m1r]

PainCakesx wrote...

Mass Effect had no such theme. The narrative was straightforward and linear. The plot was explicit and defined. Inception earned, in a narrative sense, its ambiguous ending. Mass Effect didn't - insead of coming off as profound ,it comes off as cheap sequel baiting for a game that is never going to come. 

Indoctrination theory fans might disagree here.

PainCakesx wrote...

(...)  Mass Effect has always been explicit in its narrative - to leave one of the most important aspects of the story ambiguous without any justification leads to an anticathartic end to the character arc. 

You see, neither do I think that it actually is that ambiguous, nor that it would be bad if it was, and that's unfortunately all I have to say on that matter.


 

Modifié par 1337b0r0m1r, 09 février 2013 - 12:30 .

[PainCakesx]

1337b0r0m1r wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Mass Effect had no such theme. The narrative was straightforward and linear. The plot was explicit and defined. Inception earned, in a narrative sense, its ambiguous ending. Mass Effect didn't - insead of coming off as profound ,it comes off as cheap sequel baiting for a game that is never going to come. 

Indoctrination theory fans might disagree here.

PainCakesx wrote...

(...)  Mass Effect has always been explicit in its narrative - to leave one of the most important aspects of the story ambiguous without any justification leads to an anticathartic end to the character arc. 

You see, neither do I think that it actually is that ambiguous, nor that it would be bad if it was, and that's unfortunately all I have to say on that matter.


 

This isn't going to be popular. but BioWare has seemingly gone out of their way to disprove IT. At this point, the theory reeks of grasping for straws.

Additionally, the intent of the scene isn't but it comes off that way due to the near impossible nature of Shepard's supposed survival. There needs to be more concrete evidence of Shepard's survival to overcome the cognative created by the scene. Based on evidence only given in the scene, Shepard's survival is impossible. If they were willing to give a little bit more context and expand on it, it would be more platable.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 09 février 2013 - 07:38 .

[crimzontearz]

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

[PainCakesx]

crimzontearz wrote...

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

Additionally, the kids look older and he couldn't see his kids' faces in the dream state. 

I saw a diagram that Chris Nolan used when designing the different dream levels. The end was reality.

I have no doubt that the breath scene is supposed to mean he survives. Nobody here has been able to explain *how* can survive after all that happens though.

[crimzontearz]

PainCakesx wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

Additionally, the kids look older and he couldn't see his kids' faces in the dream state. 

I saw a diagram that Chris Nolan used when designing the different dream levels. The end was reality.

I have no doubt that the breath scene is supposed to mean he survives. Nobody here has been able to explain *how* can survive after all that happens though.

well...I could give you a list of reasons...nut they would all be speculations...

[PainCakesx]

crimzontearz wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

Additionally, the kids look older and he couldn't see his kids' faces in the dream state. 

I saw a diagram that Chris Nolan used when designing the different dream levels. The end was reality.

I have no doubt that the breath scene is supposed to mean he survives. Nobody here has been able to explain *how* can survive after all that happens though.

well...I could give you a list of reasons...nut they would all be speculations...

I'm interesting in hearing someone make sense of that scene.

[crimzontearz]

PainCakesx wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

Additionally, the kids look older and he couldn't see his kids' faces in the dream state. 

I saw a diagram that Chris Nolan used when designing the different dream levels. The end was reality.

I have no doubt that the breath scene is supposed to mean he survives. Nobody here has been able to explain *how* can survive after all that happens though.

well...I could give you a list of reasons...nut they would all be speculations...

I'm interesting in hearing someone make sense of that scene.

so, the breath scene itself?

well....number one the explosion never envelopes Shepard, if you turn down the brightness and expand the blacks on your TV you can see that the explosion merely pushes him back (thank my daughter for messing with my settings while playing dead space) and only light reaches him...

secondly, the explosion that ensues after the crucible fires looks massive but if you see the slider with the broken citadel at the end the presidium is relatively OK Compared to the arms of the station....so evidently that's where all the force of the explosion went to (and the cinematic was kept from the previous scene). So all in all Shepard survived...and after the EC it is established he had a commlink to hakett, which means also hakett had his position on the citadel (which would explain a rescue effort for later)

quite simple really....improbable but straight forward

[Iakus]

crimzontearz wrote...

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

I would also point out they showed the reunion first, then focused on teh spinning top, letting us "speculate" on whether what we were seeing was real or not.  

What ME3 does, in comparisson, is end things with Cobb still sleeping on the plane, ending when he takes a breath that might or might not indicate he's waking up at all.

[crimzontearz]

iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

if people paid attention they would know the spin top was not his totem....but instead it was his wedding ring

yes Cobb is awake at the end of Inception

open ended endings especially at the end of a trilogy that pivots on player agency and emotional investment are idiotic

ESPECIALLY if one considers the underlying reason of THIS specific case

I would also point out they showed the reunion first, then focused on teh spinning top, letting us "speculate" on whether what we were seeing was real or not.  

What ME3 does, in comparisson, is end things with Cobb still sleeping on the plane, ending when he takes a breath that might or might not indicate he's waking up at all.

.....yup

[hermiona15]

Yes, Shepard lives.

[Synergizer]

hermiona15 wrote...


Yes, Shepard lives.

Case closed?

[Oni Changas]

So, as this thread continues to show... Not even BW knows what the ****ing ending is. Talk about a lack of consensus.

[Codename_Code]

Priestly : It could be shepards last breath ! or first !
Official guide : Shepards lives.
File name : Shepard lives.

Hilarious.

[crimzontearz]

Codename_Code wrote...

Priestly : It could be shepards last breath ! or first !
Official guide : Shepards lives.
File name : Shepard lives.

Hilarious.

Project lead : Shepard lives

[Iakus]

Codename_Code wrote...

Priestly : It could be shepards last breath ! or first !
Official guide : Shepards lives.
File name : Shepard lives.

Hilarious.

Breath Scene:  WTF

[Jadebaby]

does that mean Shepard bloody survives!? no.

[crimzontearz]

Jadebaby wrote...

does that mean Shepard bloody survives!? no.

perspective Jade,
also...Preston says he survives you know WHY the interpretation bull**** started