468 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

[crimzontearz]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

because it is not a last breath

[MegaSovereign]

crimzontearz wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

because it is not a last breath

That's what I was getting at.

[Jadebaby]

crimzontearz wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Well, that's a tricky question. I haven't played it straight up in a game yet.. But when I saw it on youtube for the first time I cried.. So I think it might make me pretty damn happier.

so....whst exactly is the problem with enjoying the game at this point?

Well like I said, I haven't played it. I'm waiting for all the dlc because I still have faith. Complete and utter blind faith, but faith nonetheless.

Two things, one is Shepard's fate, the other is the sheer amount of bs that the Catalyst spills out of it's annoying damn mouth..

I know mehem fixes both of these, but I'm still holding out hope that BioWare have an ace up their sleaves...

[Iakus]

crimzontearz wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Well, that's a tricky question. I haven't played it straight up in a game yet.. But when I saw it on youtube for the first time I cried.. So I think it might make me pretty damn happier.

so....whst exactly is the problem with enjoying the game at this point?

The problem is it took a fan mod to finally give proper closure to a living Shepard that EC should have provided.  To this day Biwoare thinks the endings are all awesome, and have dismissed the concerns of anyone who thinks otherwise.  EC prety much shows they did not, in fact listen.

So sure, I can enjoy ME3 now  But I'd rather not have to wait each time Bioware releases a game to be sure the story is going to be worth getting invested in the character and the game to see it through.  What about the next time Bioware thinks burning our own characters in front of us is deep and artistic?  Will there always be a modder available to fix Bioware's mistakes?  ME3 is not mod-friendly and the tools used are homemade.  What about those who can't even instal mods, XBox and PS3 fans?  They can only enjoy MEHEM via Youtube.

[fiendishchicken]

Crimsontearz, dude seriously. Stop trying to turn Jade's opinion into yours. Stop trying to do that with anybody at all.

I respect your beliefs. Respect ours.

[Jadebaby]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

because it is not a last breath

That's what I was getting at.

There are 3 arguments for the breath scene.

One, it's Shepard's first breath which means they survive.

Two, it's Shepard's last breath before they die.

Three, it's Shepard's first breath when regaining consciousness, s/he starts breathing some more in a cold, dark, dirty place completely alone, they continue to bleed out and slowly die whilst waiting for help. Her/his corpse is found weeks later.


To be able to stomach 1 you have to be ignorant of the preceeding events which led to that scene.

Anyone who think it's 2, is frankly an idiot.

3 is where my money lies.

[BizkitRebellion]

iakus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

Well, that's a tricky question. I haven't played it straight up in a game yet.. But when I saw it on youtube for the first time I cried.. So I think it might make me pretty damn happier.

so....whst exactly is the problem with enjoying the game at this point?

The problem is it took a fan mod to finally give proper closure to a living Shepard that EC should have provided.  To this day Biwoare thinks the endings are all awesome, and have dismissed the concerns of anyone who thinks otherwise.  EC prety much shows they did not, in fact listen.

So sure, I can enjoy ME3 now  But I'd rather not have to wait each time Bioware releases a game to be sure the story is going to be worth getting invested in the character and the game to see it through.  What about the next time Bioware thinks burning our own characters in front of us is deep and artistic?  Will there always be a modder available to fix Bioware's mistakes?  ME3 is not mod-friendly and the tools used are homemade.  What about those who can't even instal mods, XBox and PS3 fans?  They can only enjoy MEHEM via Youtube.

I agree with you on that.
I'm mainly an xbox player and I'm stuck with the endings with lack of closure.
The ONLY thing I have ever complained about the ending since it's realize was no closure for Shepard, his LI, and his squadmates.
The "Breath Scene" did not provide ANY of that.

[crimzontearz]

Jadebaby wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

because it is not a last breath

That's what I was getting at.

There are 3 arguments for the breath scene.

One, it's Shepard's first breath which means they survive.

Two, it's Shepard's last breath before they die.

Three, it's Shepard's first breath when regaining consciousness, s/he starts breathing some more in a cold, dark, dirty place completely alone, they continue to bleed out and slowly die whilst waiting for help. Her/his corpse is found weeks later.


To be able to stomach 1 you have to be ignorant of the preceeding events which led to that scene.

Anyone who think it's 2, is frankly an idiot.

3 is where my money lies.

as of the EC it is established Shepard has a commlink to Hakett and Hackett has his location, once ye takes his first breath what is stopping him from radioing for help?

[crimzontearz]

fiendishchicken wrote...

Crimsontearz, dude seriously. Stop trying to turn Jade's opinion into yours. Stop trying to do that with anybody at all.

I respect your beliefs. Respect ours.

I like Jade, I am merely trying to help her as some of my friends helped me, I respect her views and especially her pain

[MegaSovereign]

Jadebaby wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

because it is not a last breath

That's what I was getting at.

There are 3 arguments for the breath scene.

One, it's Shepard's first breath which means they survive.

Two, it's Shepard's last breath before they die.

Three, it's Shepard's first breath when regaining consciousness, s/he starts breathing some more in a cold, dark, dirty place completely alone, they continue to bleed out and slowly die whilst waiting for help. Her/his corpse is found weeks later.


To be able to stomach 1 you have to be ignorant of the preceeding events which led to that scene.

Anyone who think it's 2, is frankly an idiot.

3 is where my money lies.

Shepard is not stuck under the rubble and he wasn't shown to be immobilized. Hackett also knows he's on the Citadel and he was able to communicate with him before the Catalyst scene.

The ending scenes don't seem to be chronological. The Normandy crew already got confirmation on what happened to Anderson, so it's plausible that there's already a search team looking for survivors at ground zero. His wounds aren't cumulative. If he was doomed to bleed out then it should have already happened given how much in-universe time has passed since TIM's confrontation, the Catalyst confrontation, and the Crucible activation. Unless Shepard literally has only minutes to spare before his wounds become fatal, there's no reason to believe that he's a goner.

And that's without using any meta-game logic. If you were, Shepard dying shortly after the breath scene sounds even more ridiculous.

[Twilight_Princess]

wright1978 wrote...

iakus wrote...

During that time between the original endings and EC, I put forth the idea of an ending for Destroy could be

If Shepard died, Hackett giving a speech at Shepard's funeral
If Shepard lived, Shep would be giving a similar speech at Anderson's funeral.

Sadly, Bioware chose not to give any closure at all in that route.  But fortunately MEHEM actually provides something like I envisioned.

Yep would have been good.

That would have been very good. But I guess losing a father figure is too much of a disney ending or something...<_<

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 10 février 2013 - 07:29 .

[PainCakesx]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

iakus wrote...

During that time between the original endings and EC, I put forth the idea of an ending for Destroy could be

If Shepard died, Hackett giving a speech at Shepard's funeral
If Shepard lived, Shep would be giving a similar speech at Anderson's funeral.

Sadly, Bioware chose not to give any closure at all in that route.  But fortunately MEHEM actually provides something like I envisioned.

Yep would have been good.

That would have been very good. But I guess losing a father figure is too much of a disney ending or something...<_<

This is why I never understood those claiming that Shepard unambiguously living was a Disney "rainbows and sunshine" ending. Just 5 mintues prior, his mentor was killed in front of him. Not only that, but Shepard was forced to pull the trigger - imagine the guilt of that, despite it not being his choice.

Shepard living would have been bittersweet.

[crimzontearz]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Jadebaby wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Back on topic, well sorta.

Last breath shouldn't occur if Shepard already stopped breathing. So the last breath interpretation contradicts what is explicitly shown.

because it is not a last breath

That's what I was getting at.

There are 3 arguments for the breath scene.

One, it's Shepard's first breath which means they survive.

Two, it's Shepard's last breath before they die.

Three, it's Shepard's first breath when regaining consciousness, s/he starts breathing some more in a cold, dark, dirty place completely alone, they continue to bleed out and slowly die whilst waiting for help. Her/his corpse is found weeks later.


To be able to stomach 1 you have to be ignorant of the preceeding events which led to that scene.

Anyone who think it's 2, is frankly an idiot.

3 is where my money lies.

Shepard is not stuck under the rubble and he wasn't shown to be immobilized. Hackett also knows he's on the Citadel and he was able to communicate with him before the Catalyst scene.

The ending scenes don't seem to be chronological. The Normandy crew already got confirmation on what happened to Anderson, so it's plausible that there's already a search team looking for survivors at ground zero. His wounds aren't cumulative. If he was doomed to bleed out then it should have already happened given how much in-universe time has passed since TIM's confrontation, the Catalyst confrontation, and the Crucible activation. Unless Shepard literally has only minutes to spare before his wounds become fatal, there's no reason to believe that he's a goner.

And that's without using any meta-game logic. If you were, Shepard dying shortly after the breath scene sounds even more ridiculous.

that is without mentioning the insane number of upgrades some shepards have including medigel injectors in their metal reinforced bones, microfiber enhanced muscles and I forget the rest but ME2 makes him out to be borderline unkillable

[fiendishchicken]

crimzontearz wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Crimsontearz, dude seriously. Stop trying to turn Jade's opinion into yours. Stop trying to do that with anybody at all.

I respect your beliefs. Respect ours.

I like Jade, I am merely trying to help her as some of my friends helped me, I respect her views and especially her pain

Well, she's stated that she doesn't need or want your help. Leave her be.

[crimzontearz]

fiendishchicken wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

fiendishchicken wrote...

Crimsontearz, dude seriously. Stop trying to turn Jade's opinion into yours. Stop trying to do that with anybody at all.

I respect your beliefs. Respect ours.

I like Jade, I am merely trying to help her as some of my friends helped me, I respect her views and especially her pain

Well, she's stated that she doesn't need or want your help. Leave her be.

no, and stop white knighting

[Iakus]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Shepard is not stuck under the rubble and he wasn't shown to be immobilized. Hackett also knows he's on the Citadel and he was able to communicate with him before the Catalyst scene.

The ending scenes don't seem to be chronological. The Normandy crew already got confirmation on what happened to Anderson, so it's plausible that there's already a search team looking for survivors at ground zero. His wounds aren't cumulative. If he was doomed to bleed out then it should have already happened given how much in-universe time has passed since TIM's confrontation, the Catalyst confrontation, and the Crucible activation. Unless Shepard literally has only minutes to spare before his wounds become fatal, there's no reason to believe that he's a goner.

And that's without using any meta-game logic. If you were, Shepard dying shortly after the breath scene sounds even more ridiculous.

We're not talking arterial spray here.  But Shepard's injuries are clearly pretty bad.  The armor was melted off, for crying out loud!  It's not a stretch to think the cybernetics were all that was keeping Shep alive at that point, before walking into the explosion!  Given we're not even allowed to see Shepard's face as he/she inhales, seeing that broken armor, debris, and knowing Shepard is in a hidden part of the Citadel, where even most of the Normandy crew cleasrly thinks Shep is dead (why else would they have made the plaque?) easily leads to all sorts of thought as internal injuries, infection, blood loss, Keepers and protein vats, etc.

Whether or not they meant the scene to be "hope" they left it far too ambiguous for that.  "It's open to interpretation" is likely face-saving for "Frak you, we're not changing it"

[Davik Kang]

Lol this thread is still going.

Internet how I u

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Shepard is not stuck under the rubble and he wasn't shown to be immobilized. Hackett also knows he's on the Citadel and he was able to communicate with him before the Catalyst scene.

The ending scenes don't seem to be chronological. The Normandy crew already got confirmation on what happened to Anderson, so it's plausible that there's already a search team looking for survivors at ground zero. His wounds aren't cumulative. If he was doomed to bleed out then it should have already happened given how much in-universe time has passed since TIM's confrontation, the Catalyst confrontation, and the Crucible activation. Unless Shepard literally has only minutes to spare before his wounds become fatal, there's no reason to believe that he's a goner.

And that's without using any meta-game logic. If you were, Shepard dying shortly after the breath scene sounds even more ridiculous.

We're not talking arterial spray here.  But Shepard's injuries are clearly pretty bad.  The armor was melted off, for crying out loud!  It's not a stretch to think the cybernetics were all that was keeping Shep alive at that point, before walking into the explosion!  Given we're not even allowed to see Shepard's face as he/she inhales, seeing that broken armor, debris, and knowing Shepard is in a hidden part of the Citadel, where even most of the Normandy crew cleasrly thinks Shep is dead (why else would they have made the plaque?) easily leads to all sorts of thought as internal injuries, infection, blood loss, Keepers and protein vats, etc.

Whether or not they meant the scene to be "hope" they left it far too ambiguous for that.  "It's open to interpretation" is likely face-saving for "Frak you, we're not changing it"

That's not because they've seen Shepard's condition. They're expecting the worse because his fate hasn't been confirmed. The LI/best friend still has hope so he/she never puts the plaque up.

If we were taking the Harbinger laser thing with maximum realism, Shepard wouldn't have been able to even take a breath at all. Ignoring that, Shepard being alive after Harbinger's attack is indication that his armor took most of the damage. He looks roughed up but none of the wounds at the point seem fatal.

If his cybernetics has kept him alive the entire time, why would they not continue doing their job now? The cybernetics have not been blown off. As per EC we see Garrus's face and the Quarians intact.

Modifié par The-Biotic-God, 10 février 2013 - 08:18 .

[JamieCOTC]

I would have liked Shepard to have narrated the ending regardless of the choice. BW was already breaking the fourth wall at the end anyway (after the beam by manipulating the player, not the character), so it would have been a nice goodbye to Shepard instead of mourning a helmet.

[Atekimagus]

Am I the only one who was reminded of "The Masters of the Universe" ending?

That being said, I think Bioware just added it as a joke. Since as far as we know we will never get post-ending dlc or a direct sequel, I think one shouldn't put to much meaning into this scene.

A nice little joke, just like with Sceletor. Nothing more.

[Iakus]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

That's not because they've seen Shepard's condition. They're expecting the worse because his fate hasn't been confirmed. The LI/best friend still has hope so he/she never puts the plaque up.

If we were taking the Harbinger laser thing with maximum realism, Shepard wouldn't have been able to even take a breath at all. Ignoring that, Shepard being alive after Harbinger's attack is indication that his armor took most of the damage. He looks roughed up but none of the wounds at the point seem fatal.

If his cybernetics has kept him alive the entire time, why would they not continue doing their job now? The cybernetics have not been blown off. As per EC we see Garrus's face and the Quarians intact.

And Shepard seen to still be breathing in a situation that looks really, really bleak is a step up?  The way the scene is framed simply does not taell me "Yay!  Shepard's still alive!"  That's a scene that says "WIll they get to Shepard in time?"  A question that never gets answered.

At least MEHEM shows that, yes, Joker went back for Shepard.

I understand the ending is so loaded down with space magic it's hard to take any of it seriously, but I'm afraid my brain can only suspend so much disbelief.  

Re: cybernetics Because cybernetcs break and take damage too.  The Lazarus upgrade was not adamantium laced bones.  After the Harbinger blast, Shepard's barely walking.   EC seems to have added some kind of grinding sound as Shepard stands up after taking the Conduit.  

And then, of course, Shepard walks into an explosion designed to wipe out synthetic life when Shepard is also "partly synthetic."

[Jadebaby]

I have to disagree though, Shepard is not invincible.. Even with all those upgrades it's a miracle s/he survived Harbinger's beam...

To even then keep going, get shot and then walk head first into a 20 kilometre wide explosion and expect to live? That's as believable as Synthesis.

But like I've said many times before, I'm happy for anyone who can find comfort in the breath scene, to me it just brings more pain. So hopefully once the dlc cycle is over, I can fix that.

[Jadebaby]

iakus wrote...
I understand the ending is so loaded down with space magic it's hard to take any of it seriously, but I'm afraid my brain can only suspend so much disbelief.  

IMHO, that's what it all comes down too, and I vehemently agree.

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

That's not because they've seen Shepard's condition. They're expecting the worse because his fate hasn't been confirmed. The LI/best friend still has hope so he/she never puts the plaque up.

If we were taking the Harbinger laser thing with maximum realism, Shepard wouldn't have been able to even take a breath at all. Ignoring that, Shepard being alive after Harbinger's attack is indication that his armor took most of the damage. He looks roughed up but none of the wounds at the point seem fatal.

If his cybernetics has kept him alive the entire time, why would they not continue doing their job now? The cybernetics have not been blown off. As per EC we see Garrus's face and the Quarians intact.

And Shepard seen to still be breathing in a situation that looks really, really bleak is a step up?  The way the scene is framed simply does not taell me "Yay!  Shepard's still alive!"  That's a scene that says "WIll they get to Shepard in time?"  A question that never gets answered.

At least MEHEM shows that, yes, Joker went back for Shepard.

I understand the ending is so loaded down with space magic it's hard to take any of it seriously, but I'm afraid my brain can only suspend so much disbelief.  

Re: cybernetics Because cybernetcs break and take damage too.  The Lazarus upgrade was not adamantium laced bones.  After the Harbinger blast, Shepard's barely walking.   EC seems to have added some kind of grinding sound as Shepard stands up after taking the Conduit.  

And then, of course, Shepard walks into an explosion designed to wipe out synthetic life when Shepard is also "partly synthetic."

They can break but they're never shown to. That's the point I'm getting at. Also, if cybernetics are affected by the Crucible then the Quarians should have taken internal damage and Garrus's face should have melted off or something. Not to mention anyone with biotic implants.

In any event, the Normandy is scene leaving the Garden planet. I doubt their destination is anywhere else besides the Citadel.

It's a bleak surrounding because that's ground zero of where the Crucible activated. If any of the events that occured during the Crucible activation were fatal, Shepard shouldn't have taken a breath at all.

I don't believe Project Lazarus is plausible, even by in-universe standards. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore what the game shows me after that event.

Modifié par The-Biotic-God, 10 février 2013 - 09:06 .