468 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Chashan wrote...
Speaking of "Romanticism", does Green not constitute the perfect example of a hopelessly naive, romantic "Golden Age"

I mean "Romanticism" as in the historical cultural movement of the late 18th and 19th century. Among other things, it pits nature against artifice, emotion against reason, autonomy against interdependency and art against science, and finds the latter lacking and the former closer to the "human spirit", respectively

This is a philosophy which would reject synthetic life because it has no soul, reject integration of technology because that would compromise our nature and corrupt our spirit (ME: "sacrifice the soul of our species"), reject much of technology because it makes us dependent on it, severing our connection to our true nature, and value art over science because the latter is seen as lifeless.

All of the original endings were Romantic in this sense. Just watch the Normandy crash scene and consider the implied dark age of the galaxy. A Romantic would see both as good. I am firmly convinced the original endings were made with this mindset, but only Destroy associates with several relevant themes.

As for Synthesis, yes, it does indeed associate with an utopian theme. I tend to interpret it away but that won't make the theme go away, just as the fact that most people who choose Destroy don't have the Romantic mindset doesn't make that theme go away. However, I find the underlying philosophy that knowledge can bring understanding and help to create a better future far more palatable than Destroy's thematic assertion that that there are things better left unknown.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 07 février 2013 - 11:44 .

[CynicalShep]

wright1978 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I don't know about you guys but I never said good bye to my LI on the Beam run, and she wasnt at the memorial scene

Don't worry your not alone in that.

^

[DeinonSlayer]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I never said it was an Easter Egg (at least, I dont remember ever saying that, and if I did I was wrong, because it is not an Easter egg).

The breath scene is there for fans who want to see Shepard's first breath after the end or his last breath after the end. It is up to the interpretation of the player as to which it is.

Bullocks. We all know it means he's alive. Showing his last breath would be a waste of time.

There are people who insist on interpreting it as a last breath. Why waste time and energy fighting them when you can simply throw up your hands and tell them to believe what they want? People who to this day push for an extended extended cut interpret everything as negatively as possible to try to regain the momentum they once had. In the pre-EC version, there was a lot more breathing space (if you'll pardon the expression) for speculation about mass starvation and an incestuous Normandy colony.

[Argolas]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Chashan wrote...
Speaking of "Romanticism", does Green not constitute the perfect example of a hopelessly naive, romantic "Golden Age"

I mean "Romanticism" as in the historical cultural movement of the late 18th and 19th century. Among other things, it pits nature against artifice, emotion against reason, autonomy against interdependency and art against science, and finds the latter lacking and the former closer to the "human spirit", respectively

This is a philosophy which would reject synthetic life because it has no soul, reject integration of technology because that would compromise our nature and corrupt our spirit (ME: "sacrifice the soul of our species"), reject much of technology because it makes us dependent on it, severing our connection to our true nature, and value art over science because the latter is seen as lifeless.

All of the original endings were Romantic in this sense. Just watch the Normandy crash scene and consider the implied dark age of the galaxy. A Romantic would see both as good. I am firmly convinced the original endings were made with this mindset, but only Destroy associates with several relevant themes.

As for Synthesis, yes, it does indeed associate with an utopian theme. I tend to interpret it away but that won't make the theme go away, just as the fact that most people who choose Destroy don't have the Romantic mindset doesn't make that theme go away. However, I find the underlying philosophy that knowledge can bring understanding and help to create a better future far more palatable than Destroy's thematic assertion that that there are things better left unknown.

I take that whole thing differently. Even if I ignore the aspect of Indoctrination, I still strongly believe that the Reapers must be destroyed or they will always threaten all free life in the galaxy. However, I do not reject the basic idea of Synthesis that you mention, but I believe that forcing it with the crucible would not be wise. I believe that organics integrating with synthetic technology and the understanding of organic life for Synthetics both need to grow naturally over time.

[CosmicGnosis]

Do not all charms fly
At the mere touch of cold philosophy?
There was an awful rainbow once in heaven:
We know her woof, her texture; she is given
In the dull catalogue of common things.
Philosophy will clip an Angel's wings,
Conquer all mysteries by rule and line,
Empty the haunted air, and gnomèd mine—
Unweave a rainbow, as it erewhile made
The tender-person'd Lamia melt into a shade.

- "Lamia", John Keats

This is what Ieldra is talking about. Keats' "cold philosophy" is science. Science has unweaved the rainbow, and revealed its true form. Keats believes that science ruins natural beauty. Frankly, I'm offended by this nonsense of Romanticism.

Modifié par CosmicGnosis, 08 février 2013 - 12:01 .

[spirosz]

CynicalShep wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I don't know about you guys but I never said good bye to my LI on the Beam run, and she wasnt at the memorial scene

Don't worry your not alone in that.

^

[Siegdrifa]

Steelcan wrote...

It's a cop out. They didnt want to say "Shepard is alive" even though he clearly is. So they came up with a scene that some people have determined is Shepard breathing in and dying?

C:/ Program Files / Origin Games / Mass Effect 3 / BIOGame / Movies
files :
End03_Shepard_Alive_Fem.bik
End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik

[spirosz]

Auld Wulf wrote...
Synthesis Shepard creates a lasting peace, galactic empathy, and a better life and future for all.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I was faster than Marauder Shields and made the head shot.

I find the pseudophilosophical interpretation of the destroy ending a pile of horse manure. It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. The whole ending was a pile of horse manure if you ask me. It didn't belong in the game. It belonged in Deus Ex, not Mass Effect. I didn't want a galactic police state. I didn't want to impose a utopia on the galaxy. I wanted to destroy the crazy AI running the damned cycle and its infernal death machines, rebuild our worlds and move on from where we were before the invasion. Was that an option? Nooooooo. We had to destroy all of our technology and go back to living in the stone age.

Best ending = MEHEM. Screw 'em.

[spirosz]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. 

But as a player, who didn't create the universe, maybe that was inevitable.  Not saying I disagree with you, just a thought.  Anyway, I've seen fans write better and fitting endings to the universe that Bioware gave them, without making it be all "rainbows and sunshine" or cheesy.  Though, it's easier to write something well, when you're not considering animation budget and all that jazz. 

[MegaSovereign]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I was faster than Marauder Shields and made the head shot.

I find the pseudophilosophical interpretation of the destroy ending a pile of horse manure. It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. The whole ending was a pile of horse manure if you ask me. It didn't belong in the game. It belonged in Deus Ex, not Mass Effect. I didn't want a galactic police state. I didn't want to impose a utopia on the galaxy. I wanted to destroy the crazy AI running the damned cycle and its infernal death machines, rebuild our worlds and move on from where we were before the invasion. Was that an option? Nooooooo. We had to destroy all of our technology and go back to living in the stone age.

Best ending = MEHEM. Screw 'em.

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

[Some Gamer Guy]

If you have high EMS (3100+), and choose Destroy, and then get the breath scene, you can reject it as meaning he lived. Maybe you want your Shepard to make the ultimate sacrifice.

That's when the breath scene becomes his last breath. It means the game isn't necessarily enforcing Shepard's survival onto you.

Modifié par Some Gamer Guy, 08 février 2013 - 12:32 .

[JamieCOTC]

Here's Chris's quote on the ending and the EMS change in the EC.

The original experience of the game was meant to reward players who did extra work (multiplayer, importing a save, playing the iOS games, etc) with greater levels of success in the end, which is appropriate to a story about a war that needs every possible advantage in order to win.  But now that we are moving to a post-launch period and have additional content for the endings, we wanted to make it easier for all players to experience even the best-cast endings.  Playing multiplayer is just one component is a sea of variables that can affect your ending. *snip*

As we all know it was impossible to see the breathe scene w/out playing MP before the EC ...

According to data found within the game, the total War Assets score is 8370. However, this number is unattainable in the game as obtaining the War Assets needed will require impossible feats to see all the scenes. Ashley and Kaidan surviving, or both saving and sacrificing the Council. Currently the highest obtainable War Assets is above 7500.

from Mass Effect Wiki on War Assets.

... Even though BW stated that we did not have to play MP to get the best SP endings before the game was released.

You do NOT have to play multiplayer to get the best single-player endings. - Jarret Lee

Chris never came out and stated the breathe scene was an easter egg, but I can see how this statement can be misinterpreted that way. In fact that’s the way I interpreted it as there was no, “Sorry, we messed up on the SP/MP EMS. It’s fixed now.”  However there is an attitude on the behalf of BW that the endings be interpreted by the player, that perhaps the best ending is the player’s ending, whatever that may be. And that’s fine, but it leaves me w/ only two ways to think about this. Either the SP/MP EMS was screwed up by mistake (and was fixed, thank you) or there is in fact a best ending which means the breathe scene can be interpreted as an easter egg.

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 08 février 2013 - 12:32 .

[spirosz]

MegaSovereign wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I was faster than Marauder Shields and made the head shot.

I find the pseudophilosophical interpretation of the destroy ending a pile of horse manure. It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. The whole ending was a pile of horse manure if you ask me. It didn't belong in the game. It belonged in Deus Ex, not Mass Effect. I didn't want a galactic police state. I didn't want to impose a utopia on the galaxy. I wanted to destroy the crazy AI running the damned cycle and its infernal death machines, rebuild our worlds and move on from where we were before the invasion. Was that an option? Nooooooo. We had to destroy all of our technology and go back to living in the stone age.

Best ending = MEHEM. Screw 'em.

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

Well, pre-EC, it seems like technology is stuck and won't progress further because the current races adapt their lives so much to these relays, without truly understanding them and wouldn't know how to get any further.  

Weren't they destroyed pre-EC as well, which was part of that "dark age" blah blah SuperMac had going? 

[TurianRebel212]

It is just an Easter egg, Bioware doesn't care and doesn't want to be liked by their fans. The breath scene is the last death rattle of the series, it's symbolic. Saying that ME is dead, alone and buried in ruble underneath the horrific execution and 'artistic integrity' of the endings, Just as Shepard (YOU THE PLAYER) is in the scene. It's OVER. Get over the endings. There is no hidden agenda or hidden theory, it's just bad writing- Casey and Mac's fault, and terrible execution, again their fault. If Drew Karpyshyn would have been apart of the ending writing process, this wouldn't have happened.


Get over it.

[MegaSovereign]

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I was faster than Marauder Shields and made the head shot.

I find the pseudophilosophical interpretation of the destroy ending a pile of horse manure. It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. The whole ending was a pile of horse manure if you ask me. It didn't belong in the game. It belonged in Deus Ex, not Mass Effect. I didn't want a galactic police state. I didn't want to impose a utopia on the galaxy. I wanted to destroy the crazy AI running the damned cycle and its infernal death machines, rebuild our worlds and move on from where we were before the invasion. Was that an option? Nooooooo. We had to destroy all of our technology and go back to living in the stone age.

Best ending = MEHEM. Screw 'em.

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

Well, pre-EC, it seems like technology is stuck and won't progress further because the current races adapt their lives so much to these relays, without truly understanding them and wouldn't know how to get any further.  

Weren't they destroyed pre-EC as well, which was part of that "dark age" blah blah SuperMac had going? 

Pre-EC never happened.

Because I said so.

ME3 came out on June 26, 2012.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 08 février 2013 - 12:35 .

[spirosz]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It is just an Easter egg, Bioware doesn't care and doesn't want to be liked by their fans. The breath scene is the last death rattle of the series, it's symbolic. Saying that ME is dead, alone and buried in ruble underneath the horrific execution and 'artistic integrity' of the endings, Just as Shepard (YOU THE PLAYER) is in the scene. It's OVER. Get over the endings. There is no hidden agenda or hidden theory, it's just bad writing- Casey and Mac's fault, and terrible execution, again their fault. If Drew Karpyshyn would have been apart of the ending writing process, this wouldn't have happened.


Get over it.

You really believe the Dark Energy plot Drew had going was much better?  I thought it was equally as bad as what we were given by Mac. 

[o Ventus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

The Catalyst tells you to your face that "most" of the technology that people rely on will be destroyed.

[spirosz]

MegaSovereign wrote...

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I was faster than Marauder Shields and made the head shot.

I find the pseudophilosophical interpretation of the destroy ending a pile of horse manure. It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. The whole ending was a pile of horse manure if you ask me. It didn't belong in the game. It belonged in Deus Ex, not Mass Effect. I didn't want a galactic police state. I didn't want to impose a utopia on the galaxy. I wanted to destroy the crazy AI running the damned cycle and its infernal death machines, rebuild our worlds and move on from where we were before the invasion. Was that an option? Nooooooo. We had to destroy all of our technology and go back to living in the stone age.

Best ending = MEHEM. Screw 'em.

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

Well, pre-EC, it seems like technology is stuck and won't progress further because the current races adapt their lives so much to these relays, without truly understanding them and wouldn't know how to get any further.  

Weren't they destroyed pre-EC as well, which was part of that "dark age" blah blah SuperMac had going? 

Pre-EC never happened.

Because I said so.

ME3 came out on June 26, 2012.

No.  

[MegaSovereign]

o Ventus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

The Catalyst tells you to your face that "most" of the technology that people rely on will be destroyed.

Chin. He tells me to my chin. He's not tall enough to see my face.

He said most technology that you rely on will be "affected" but those who survive the blast will have little difficulty repairing it.

[Iakus]

Some Gamer Guy wrote...

If you have high EMS (3100+), and choose Destroy, and then get the breath scene, you can reject it as meaning he lived. Maybe you want your Shepard to make the ultimate sacrifice.

That's when the breath scene becomes his last breath. It means the game isn't necessarily enforcing Shepard's survival onto you.

So where's the option/implication for Shepard to survive in Control or Synthesis?  Why does Destroy have to share?

[MegaSovereign]

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

spirosz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I was faster than Marauder Shields and made the head shot.

I find the pseudophilosophical interpretation of the destroy ending a pile of horse manure. It was about destroying the reapers, and not about sacrificing the technology. The whole ending was a pile of horse manure if you ask me. It didn't belong in the game. It belonged in Deus Ex, not Mass Effect. I didn't want a galactic police state. I didn't want to impose a utopia on the galaxy. I wanted to destroy the crazy AI running the damned cycle and its infernal death machines, rebuild our worlds and move on from where we were before the invasion. Was that an option? Nooooooo. We had to destroy all of our technology and go back to living in the stone age.

Best ending = MEHEM. Screw 'em.

The only relevant technology that was damaged were the relays, and they're on the priority checklist of the Rebuilding process.

I don't think the Destroy ending implies technological regression. It just means technological progress isn't further accelerated with the help of the Reapers.

Well, pre-EC, it seems like technology is stuck and won't progress further because the current races adapt their lives so much to these relays, without truly understanding them and wouldn't know how to get any further.  

Weren't they destroyed pre-EC as well, which was part of that "dark age" blah blah SuperMac had going? 

Pre-EC never happened.

Because I said so.

ME3 came out on June 26, 2012.

No.  

Pls?

[TurianRebel212]

spirosz wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

It is just an Easter egg, Bioware doesn't care and doesn't want to be liked by their fans. The breath scene is the last death rattle of the series, it's symbolic. Saying that ME is dead, alone and buried in ruble underneath the horrific execution and 'artistic integrity' of the endings, Just as Shepard (YOU THE PLAYER) is in the scene. It's OVER. Get over the endings. There is no hidden agenda or hidden theory, it's just bad writing- Casey and Mac's fault, and terrible execution, again their fault. If Drew Karpyshyn would have been apart of the ending writing process, this wouldn't have happened.


Get over it.

You really believe the Dark Energy plot Drew had going was much better?  I thought it was equally as bad as what we were given by Mac. 

"Equally as bad as what we were given by Mac"


NOT.EVEN.CLOSE.


but to each their own. Who really cares. The series is over,accept it and enjoy the game and it's offerings or move on. 

[spirosz]

Mega pls