468 réponses à ce sujet

[PainCakesx]

clennon8 wrote...

It's pretty clear that the breath scene was 100% intended as a "Shepard lives!" moment.

The "It's whatever you want it to be!" stance is strategy that has been adopted in the aftermath.

I don't disagree. But the seemingly intentional muddying of the ending by various BioWare comments is baffling as it does nothing but fuel the fire. And they had to know it as well.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 08 février 2013 - 04:22 .

[FlamingBoy]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I never said it was an Easter Egg (at least, I dont remember ever saying that, and if I did I was wrong, because it is not an Easter egg).

The breath scene is there for fans who want to see Shepard's first breath after the end or his last breath after the end. It is up to the interpretation of the player as to which it is.

...............................
the highlighted bit is with out a doubt the most infuriating thing about the ending.
because that basic philosphy is seen throughout the ending and it makes an excurtiatingly painful experience

[clennon8]

ME3's ending is a Rorschach image. What do YOU see?

[Priss Blackburne]

They should have named the movie "end03_Shepard" ..instead of "end03_Shepard_alive" if their intention was to leave it up to interpretation or speculation.

To me it feels like a stance of we don't want to anger another portion of our fan base so we will be non-committal in our comments.

[Iakus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

iakus wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Possibly because those fans abandoned any sense of proportion of what abandonment actually is.

Yeah silly players expecting to have some explicit "Shepard lives" endings to go with all the explicit "Shepard dies" endings to cap off a trilogy five years in the making.  Who do those entitled whiners think they are?

Silly people who exagerate and have a propensity for making straw man arguments?

Well, they might not think of themselves as that, but we're not addressing their self-awareness at the moment. Simply their accuracy.

How is it a strawman when we are outright told "All these endings mean Shepard dies.  This one ending means Shepard lives or dies"  It was reiterated yet again on this very thread! 

[FlamingBoy]

crimzontearz wrote...

Documental wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Documental wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

Squallypo wrote...

hehe lost faith in eaware fully, well time to explore new developers i guess that doesnt mean i wont keep an eye around, not hating just displeased.

check out Cdprojekt red, Their a real developer of action RPG's that actually care abou their fanbase. It's best to leave good game development to the pros, not a Subsidiarity[/b] of a publisher that's biggest franchises are sport's games. Just sayin' 

Wow, the bitterness just flows through you.

he is not entirely wrong

I just think it is absurd that people think BioWare don't care about their fans, it's been pretty bloody obvious in the past year that they do care about their fans.

it is also absurd to ignore EA's influence...especially after some third parties who worked on other games pretty much came out right away pointing out some of the BS

The thing about ethics (or caring..) is, its the thing you do when no one is watching, CD protjekts (or whatever) just does it (free dlc, pc support if you care about that, and a fit for purpose game).

Bioware/EA only seems to "care" when the world is watching them as seen with the extended cut

[Iakus]

FlamingBoy wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I never said it was an Easter Egg (at least, I dont remember ever saying that, and if I did I was wrong, because it is not an Easter egg).

The breath scene is there for fans who want to see Shepard's first breath after the end or his last breath after the end. It is up to the interpretation of the player as to which it is.

...............................
the highlighted bit is with out a doubt the most infuriating thing about the ending.
because that basic philosphy is seen throughout the ending and it makes an excurtiatingly painful experience

Yes, thank you.

Bioware just doesn'tseem to get it.

Modifié par iakus, 08 février 2013 - 04:38 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

The easter-egg thing never sounded serious to me. I don't even remember who called it that, if at all.

What BioWare did say is the breath scene could have been Shepard's last breath, which is probably worse than calling it an easter-egg, all things considered.

[Indy_S]

scyphozoa wrote...

The problem is the ME trilogy taught its players that if you hit the big blue button you will get the happy outcome. Well, there was no blue button for them to hit at the end of the game and they went into shell shock.

That is not the problem. A lack of closure is the problem.

[Aaleel]

Bioware probably thought that they couldn't close the story in a way everyone would like, so they tried to make and ending that would let the player speculate, fill in the blanks, head canon, write fan fic ending or whatever you want to call it.

And they're never going to tell anyone they're wrong, they'll just keep saying it could be either or, however you want interpret it.

[High Kicks]

I think Shepard is dead :-(
He's brunt crispy, bleeding out, bruised, fatigued, probably has to go to the bathroom, and in a part of the citadel only the keepers and reapers know about.
What rescue party is gonna find him??? They don't know where the heck he is!

And them being all vague about it makes my butt ich. Why not just give a definate answer?
We've been playing the game for years. The end comes up and now all of suddend we have to use our imagination? This ain't Barney! 

Modifié par High Kicks, 08 février 2013 - 04:49 .

[FlamingBoy]

but mass effect 3 ending was outright vague,
and people interpreted based on the knowledge that they had. Mass relays exploding= galaxy destroyed based on arrival dlc. (this particular example was retconed in the extended cut and they were "damaged")
These problems are throughout the extended cut and quite frankly its not acceptable

[Iakus]

Aaleel wrote...

Bioware probably thought that they couldn't close the story in a way everyone would like, so they tried to make and ending that would let the player speculate, fill in the blanks, head canon, write fan fic ending or whatever you want to call it.

And they're never going to tell anyone they're wrong, they'll just keep saying it could be either or, however you want interpret it.

They did close the story on every single ending where Shepard (definitely) died though.  It's only in this one case where they decided to be coy.  

It's not like they went "Shepard jumps into the greenspace magic  beam.  Did he/she survive?  Speculations!"  Nope Shepard's dead.  We get to watch the disintigration process.


"Shepard lies broken and alone in a hidden part of the Citadel, and takes one shallow breath.  Does Shepard survive?  Speculations!"  That's what people who want their Shepards to live get.  Not waking up in a hospital.  Not a rescue scene.  Not even a message to the Normandy .  

How can Mass Effect 3's endings and Dragon Age: Origins endings come from the same company?

[Kataphrut94]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

The easter-egg thing never sounded serious to me. I don't even remember who called it that, if at all.

What BioWare did say is the breath scene could have been Shepard's last breath, which is probably worse than calling it an easter-egg, all things considered.

That was a joke. One of the guys at a panel said it half mockingly when asked about it by a fan. It was all in good nature, but a few people on the forums who weren't there got a bit cranky about the whole thing.

The idea behind the breath scene is that it's whatever you want it to be. Most choose to believe it means Shepard survived. Some say he died. Some say it's the only way to beat the game. Those people are dumb, but all views are welcomed.

Modifié par Kataphrut94, 08 février 2013 - 04:56 .

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Bioware probably thought that they couldn't close the story in a way everyone would like, so they tried to make and ending that would let the player speculate, fill in the blanks, head canon, write fan fic ending or whatever you want to call it.

And they're never going to tell anyone they're wrong, they'll just keep saying it could be either or, however you want interpret it.

They did close the story on every single ending where Shepard (definitely) died though.  It's only in this one case where they decided to be coy.  

It's not like they went "Shepard jumps into the greenspace magic  beam.  Did he/she survive?  Speculations!"  Nope Shepard's dead.  We get to watch the disintigration process.


"Shepard lies broken and alone in a hidden part of the Citadel, and takes one shallow breath.  Does Shepard survive?  Speculations!"  That's what people who want their Shepards to live get.  Not waking up in a hospital.  Not a rescue scene.  Not even a message to the Normandy .  

How can Mass Effect 3's endings and Dragon Age: Origins endings come from the same company?

So you don't think Synthesis is ambigious? Shepard's fate is about the only concrete thing you can get from the Synthesis ending without having to fill in the blanks with interpretations and headcanon.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

So you don't think Synthesis is ambigious? Shepard's fate is about the only concrete thing you can get from the Synthesis ending without having to fill in the blanks with interpretations and headcanon.

Umm, Shepard's death was exactly what I was talking about.  As you pointed out, there is no ambiguity there.

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

So you don't think Synthesis is ambigious? Shepard's fate is about the only concrete thing you can get from the Synthesis ending without having to fill in the blanks with interpretations and headcanon.

Umm, Shepard's death was exactly what I was talking about.  As you pointed out, there is no ambiguity there.

There's more to the conclusion than Shepard living/dying.

You're implying that Destroy offers the least amount of closure, I'm inclined to disagree.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

So you don't think Synthesis is ambigious? Shepard's fate is about the only concrete thing you can get from the Synthesis ending without having to fill in the blanks with interpretations and headcanon.

Umm, Shepard's death was exactly what I was talking about.  As you pointed out, there is no ambiguity there.

There's more to the conclusion than Shepard living/dying.

You're implying that Destroy offers the least amount of closure, I'm inclined to disagree.

As far as the question of Shepard living or dying goes, yes it does.  It's the Shrodinger's Cat of character fates.  It's a hook for a sequel that will never come.  It is completely lacking in catharsis, it's anticathartic.

[Fnork]

It got called a teaser or something of the sort at some comic con panel. Check this video @ 47:45. The panel confirms there's nothing more to the breath scene than a little something they added when they started thinking if perhaps they made things a little too bleak. It's ambiguous on purpose and could very well be his final breath (also their words), it's all up to you. Speculations, yay.

Modifié par Fnork, 08 février 2013 - 06:50 .

[Auld Wulf]

I'm getting this nagging suspicion that BioWare fans have absolutely no imagination whatsoever. You getting that too, Chris?

I was actually fine with the ending pre-EC. I'm a creative person, and things like worldcrafting and storyboarding plots are things which I enjoy. After the ending of ME3, I sat back in my chair, looked on with a mild sense of awe and spoke quietly "touché, BioWare. Touché." The most immediate concern in my mind was all of those fleets seemingly now stranded, and then many other issues came to mind.

Instead of running to the forums and screaming about it, I actually began to formulate the hypothesis that the reapers themselves would likely help with rebuilding civilisation. Except, of course, unless you choose Destroy. Then you're not going to have that chance at all and everyone's going to run out of resources and die. This is something I hinted at in my prior post on this thread. Hurrah for Shepard the Butcher, blessed be his name, cursed be his name.

Still, for Synth and Control, there was the option of having the reapers repair the relays. In Synth and Control I believe they only looked damaged, it was only in Destroy were the relays entirely obliterated, and that was just to add to the sense of melancholy of what Shepard had just done. But I digress. The fact of the matter is is that there could be many meanings to take away from the breath scene. I take it as the end of the legacy of Shepard the Butcher, the man dies alone contemplating his many sins. To me, that's the most meaningful ending.

But for the gung-ho people who'd rather be shooting faces and not dreaming up new worlds, then I suppose it's nice to think that you have your binary ending - where, hey, you defeated Dem Bad Guys and saved Us Gud Guys and everything is so very shiny, lollipops, and rainbows. Despite the fact that the kind of Shepard who'd just wipe out entire races (not only the geth, but those within the reaper consensus as well) is kind of a genocidal madman and not really a 'good guy' at all.

But hey, it HAS to be that Shepard is alive. And it can't be anything else.

Sigh. Gamers.

[Auld Wulf]

LineHolder wrote...

[...] there is absolutely no reason not to pick 'Destroy' IMO.

Except that you are killing every single race the reapers preserved in their consensus over countless aeons. They're getting to live in virtual utopias, protected by the reapers, then along you come with your giant hate button to ruin their day. I mean, seriously, didn't you even consider that?

The protheans and every other preserved race have now been truly destroyed. They don't have the chance to have new bodies built for them, so that they can leave the consensus and wander around in reality again. Nope. That's because they're all now so very bloody dead.

Yup, Destroy sure is an ethical option! And that's even if you're not considering EDI and the geth.

Why are gamers such homicidal madmen? I fail to understand.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 08 février 2013 - 06:59 .

[Indy_S]

Auld Wulf wrote...

I'm getting this nagging suspicion that BioWare fans have absolutely no imagination whatsoever. You getting that too, Chris?

I was actually fine with the ending pre-EC. I'm a creative person, and things like worldcrafting and storyboarding plots are things which I enjoy. After the ending of ME3, I sat back in my chair, looked on with a mild sense of awe and spoke quietly "touché, BioWare. Touché." The most immediate concern in my mind was all of those fleets seemingly now stranded, and then many other issues came to mind.

Instead of running to the forums and screaming about it, I actually began to formulate the hypothesis that the reapers themselves would likely help with rebuilding civilisation. Except, of course, unless you choose Destroy. Then you're not going to have that chance at all and everyone's going to run out of resources and die. This is something I hinted at in my prior post on this thread. Hurrah for Shepard the Butcher, blessed be his name, cursed be his name.

Still, for Synth and Control, there was the option of having the reapers repair the relays. In Synth and Control I believe they only looked damaged, it was only in Destroy were the relays entirely obliterated, and that was just to add to the sense of melancholy of what Shepard had just done. But I digress. The fact of the matter is is that there could be many meanings to take away from the breath scene. I take it as the end of the legacy of Shepard the Butcher, the man dies alone contemplating his many sins. To me, that's the most meaningful ending.

But for the gung-ho people who'd rather be shooting faces and not dreaming up new worlds, then I suppose it's nice to think that you have your binary ending - where, hey, you defeated Dem Bad Guys and saved Us Gud Guys and everything is so very shiny, lollipops, and rainbows. Despite the fact that the kind of Shepard who'd just wipe out entire races (not only the geth, but those within the reaper consensus as well) is kind of a genocidal madman and not really a 'good guy' at all.

But hey, it HAS to be that Shepard is alive. And it can't be anything else.

Sigh. Gamers.

I really get annoyed at your posts. They're insults and all possible discussion-worthy elements get covered in that slime. You accuse the fans of having no imagination? Well, why do you believe ambiguity is so great? The storyteller put Shepard in rubble and had him breathe. That's a sequel hook that was frankly unnecessary when you consider that Shepard's fate is pre-determined. He plays out a messianic allegory. Survivng that defeats the narrative purpose but lo and behold, he can survive.

I am fond of the strawman you keep suggesting where most people are binary thinkers if only because of how wrong you are. I don't think anybody has an issue with the Reapers imposing some galactic order or Shepard becoming a morally damnable human being. People have issues with the logic and narrative execution of both of those. The Catalyst thinks organic life is threatened and no proof is ever provided. That has nothing to do with binary thinking.

Sigh. Wulves.