468 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Pont is, the game is enforcing Shepard's survival, or lack of it

Choose Synthesis=Shepard dies
Choose Control=Shepard dies
Choose Refuse=Shepard dies
Choose Destroy with EMS<3100=Shepard dies
Choose Destroy with an EMS of 3100 or more, and Bioware will graciously allow you to interpret Shepard's survival

And Bioware is confused that EC didn't provide clarity and closure to folks?  This could have been resolved with five seconds of extra footage.  A single line of dialogue in the right plave.  One ending slide.  Why did dead SHepards get closure, and live SHepards got stuck with "implications"?

Why did Bioware abandon their fans?

Yep this.

[Kataphrut94]

To be fair, the writing was on the wall with Shepard. Even if you don't accept all that stuff about the weight of the world on his shoulders, the death-seeker lines, the dream sequence...he still got hit by a bloody big laser and had to practically crawl his way to the Citadel while bleeding profusely and with his armour burnt to a crisp. Even with all the physical fitness, cybernetic enhancements and sheer determined willpower in the world, a man has to know his limitations.

[Iakus]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

To be fair, the writing was on the wall with Shepard. Even if you don't accept all that stuff about the weight of the world on his shoulders, the death-seeker lines, the dream sequence...he still got hit by a bloody big laser and had to practically crawl his way to the Citadel while bleeding profusely and with his armour burnt to a crisp. Even with all the physical fitness, cybernetic enhancements and sheer determined willpower in the world, a man has to know his limitations.

And right up through the "best seats in the house" talk, it looked like EMS would decide if Shepard gets found and rescued before he/she bleeds out.  Did Shepard do enough?  Is it a hospital bed for Shepard or a casket?  Can Shep get the job done and go home one last time?

then The Endings happened...and the Catalyst tells us "Trolol, nope!"

[Bourne Endeavor]

It was just an ill-conceived plot device because BioWare was afraid to commit to the unilateral "Shepard dies" scenario. The backlash would have been immense. How little they knew. Instead we have a scene that is devoid of any narrative cohesion as it is not in any way plausible for Shepard to be on Earth, never mind survive. One exception is the theory she was transported back through the beam once a choice was made, but that would contrived.

No matter how you slice it. The scene is a meaningless plot device.

[Kataphrut94]

iakus wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

To be fair, the writing was on the wall with Shepard. Even if you don't accept all that stuff about the weight of the world on his shoulders, the death-seeker lines, the dream sequence...he still got hit by a bloody big laser and had to practically crawl his way to the Citadel while bleeding profusely and with his armour burnt to a crisp. Even with all the physical fitness, cybernetic enhancements and sheer determined willpower in the world, a man has to know his limitations.

And right up through the "best seats in the house" talk, it looked like EMS would decide if Shepard gets found and rescued before he/she bleeds out.  Did Shepard do enough?  Is it a hospital bed for Shepard or a casket?  Can Shep get the job done and go home one last time?

then The Endings happened...and the Catalyst tells us "Trolol, nope!"

What on Earth gave you that idea? It was just Shepard and Anderson having a father-son/daughter moment while watching the fighting with no indication of rescue or that Shepard would have anything left to do having opened the Citadel arms. There's talk of "we did it", "I'm proud of you" and that moment after Anderson dies in which Shepard examines his own wounds and slowly closes his eyes. Until Hackett interjected, it looked for very sure that Shepard was going to die that way.

That in itself would have been a far stronger moment, but we play the cards we're dealt. That's the beauty of the epilogue in that regard - Control and Synthesis make it very clear that Shepard did die, but that he ultimately sacrificed himself for the greater good, while the Destroy breath scene gives people reason to hope. And if you believe that Shepard survived that scene, then there is absolutely nothing in the game stopping you.

[Grubas]

After 9 pages of discussion i still see no point raised why "that scene" should be Shepards last breath.
That would actually make that scene ambigious in the first place.

Modifié par Grubas, 08 février 2013 - 08:31 .

[PainCakesx]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Kataphrut94 wrote...

To be fair, the writing was on the wall with Shepard. Even if you don't accept all that stuff about the weight of the world on his shoulders, the death-seeker lines, the dream sequence...he still got hit by a bloody big laser and had to practically crawl his way to the Citadel while bleeding profusely and with his armour burnt to a crisp. Even with all the physical fitness, cybernetic enhancements and sheer determined willpower in the world, a man has to know his limitations.

And right up through the "best seats in the house" talk, it looked like EMS would decide if Shepard gets found and rescued before he/she bleeds out.  Did Shepard do enough?  Is it a hospital bed for Shepard or a casket?  Can Shep get the job done and go home one last time?

then The Endings happened...and the Catalyst tells us "Trolol, nope!"

What on Earth gave you that idea? It was just Shepard and Anderson having a father-son/daughter moment while watching the fighting with no indication of rescue or that Shepard would have anything left to do having opened the Citadel arms. There's talk of "we did it", "I'm proud of you" and that moment after Anderson dies in which Shepard examines his own wounds and slowly closes his eyes. Until Hackett interjected, it looked for very sure that Shepard was going to die that way.

That in itself would have been a far stronger moment, but we play the cards we're dealt. That's the beauty of the epilogue in that regard - Control and Synthesis make it very clear that Shepard did die, but that he ultimately sacrificed himself for the greater good, while the Destroy breath scene gives people reason to hope. And if you believe that Shepard survived that scene, then there is absolutely nothing in the game stopping you.

Hope? Hope for what? At what point in the trilogy was a major plot point left to "hope?" At what point did BioWare earn, in a  narrative sense, to leave that up to interpretation? 

Ending a trilogy on a cliffhanger, the kind that reeks of sequel baiting, one that won't ever be coming, is the least cathartic and cohesive way to end a character arc. Especially one as imporant as Shepard's was. 

That's the problem with that scene.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 08 février 2013 - 08:35 .

[Han Shot First]

Has this been posted yet?

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

---Tully Ackland

ttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12758618]link[/url]


Also it should be noted that the files associated with the breath scene are named "End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik" and "End03_Shepard_Alive_Female.bik."

[Argolas]

Han Shot First wrote...

Has this been posted yet?

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

---Tully Ackland

ttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12758618]link[/url]


Also it should be noted that the files associated with the breath scene are named "End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik" and "End03_Shepard_Alive_Female.bik."

Yes it has been posted, more than once. Just like the file names and links to articels quoting Tully Ackland. However, this does not seem to count as proof.

[PainCakesx]

Argolas wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Has this been posted yet?

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

---Tully Ackland

ttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12758618]link[/url]


Also it should be noted that the files associated with the breath scene are named "End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik" and "End03_Shepard_Alive_Female.bik."

Yes it has been posted, more than once. Just like the file names and links to articels quoting Tully Ackland. However, this does not seem to count as proof.

Skepticism is based on contradictory statements made after that comment was made.

[Auztin]

iakus wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Bioware probably thought that they couldn't close the story in a way everyone would like, so they tried to make and ending that would let the player speculate, fill in the blanks, head canon, write fan fic ending or whatever you want to call it.

And they're never going to tell anyone they're wrong, they'll just keep saying it could be either or, however you want interpret it.

They did close the story on every single ending where Shepard (definitely) died though.  It's only in this one case where they decided to be coy.  

It's not like they went "Shepard jumps into the greenspace magic  beam.  Did he/she survive?  Speculations!"  Nope Shepard's dead.  We get to watch the disintigration process.


"Shepard lies broken and alone in a hidden part of the Citadel, and takes one shallow breath.  Does Shepard survive?  Speculations!"  That's what people who want their Shepards to live get.  Not waking up in a hospital.  Not a rescue scene.  Not even a message to the Normandy .  

How can Mass Effect 3's endings and Dragon Age: Origins endings come from the same company?

I have a problem with the highlighted.How were they any different.They basically were the same.All Dragon Age:Origins had that was different were more variations of the same thing & barely any interperation of anything besides what the next game is about & where your character diappeared to.DA:O endings while happy were spoon-fed down our throats even the main character was said that he dissappered in the end & never seen again until Awakening or other DLC unless he sacrificed himself.

Modifié par Auztinito, 08 février 2013 - 09:33 .

[Argolas]

PainCakesx wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Has this been posted yet?

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

---Tully Ackland

ttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12758618]link[/url]


Also it should be noted that the files associated with the breath scene are named "End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik" and "End03_Shepard_Alive_Female.bik."

Yes it has been posted, more than once. Just like the file names and links to articels quoting Tully Ackland. However, this does not seem to count as proof.

Skepticism is based on contradictory statements made after that comment was made.

The original intention is made clear best by old statements. In fact, the linked post by Tully Ackland is as clear as it will get. He basically says that the Breath Scene is meant to show that Shepard survives, but in case that this wasn't clear enough yet, the EC included another hint in the memorial wall scene.

If you want that scene to mean that Shepard lives, it's true. We won't be hearing anything else from Shepard anymore, so headcanon ahead.

[Evo_9]

Fnork wrote...

It got called a teaser or something of the sort at some comic con panel. Check this video @ 47:45. The panel confirms there's nothing more to the breath scene than a little something they added when they started thinking if perhaps they made things a little too bleak. It's ambiguous on purpose and could very well be his final breath (also their words), it's all up to you. Speculations, yay.

Why would anyone with half a brain create MORE ambiguity, ontop of all the other question marks, while ending a trilogy? 

I just dont get it....these are paid writers! they should know better

imagine the star wars trilogy ended with darth vader taking a breath....lol.....its just so stupid and unneccesary.

If this abomination of a scene was their intention to create uncertainty, why did they bother saying we would get CLOSURE to the series lol

im glad it back fired horribly so they never pull this crap again.

Modifié par Evo_9, 08 février 2013 - 10:29 .

[Indy_S]

I'm not glad it backfired but I'd like to know why as well. Closure is a desirable part of an ending so why are they promoting ambiguity? No memetic responses, please.

[1337b0r0m1r]

For me, the Extended Cut provided enough closure. That is not to say that providing more would have been bad, just that it was okay as it was.
Do people want being told what happens to all the important characters after the end of all things? A dialogue between Shepard and his/her LI, provided they survive, where you can choose what you want to do now? 

I think movies rarely provide more closure. Neither do all games. Some do, like the Lord of the Rings or BioWare's own Baldur's Gate II, but if you do provide that much closure, you walk a thin line and can easily fall off to the cheesy side of things.

Modifié par 1337b0r0m1r, 08 février 2013 - 11:39 .

[Davik Kang]

I can't believe this has generated 9 pages of talk. The ending was left open. That's really all there is to it.

Bioware's games have always had the player's personal story at heart. They took the time on KotOR, for example, to mould the sequel so that your own character's story would remain valid within the new plot. Leaving an open ending allows as many players as possible to have a sense of a personal ending that makes sense in the way they saw the Mass Effect world. Many players on this forum are still here because they want more from Bioware, but the majority of players have moved on.

And they repeatedly make statements to this effect too. But still you guys seem to be having fun proving whether Shepard lives or dies and talking about closure etc. etc. etc. so carry on.

[TheRealJayDee]

Auld Wulf wrote...

I'm getting this nagging suspicion that BioWare fans have absolutely no imagination whatsoever. [etc]

At first I was thinking about writing an angry reply to this whole post, but then realized that I've answered similar statements more than once in the past and it wasn't worth my time and energy anymore back then than it is now. So let me instead just express my sincere hope that you will continue having a great time wallowing in that feeling of superiority!

[o Ventus]

Davik Kang wrote...

I can't believe this has generated 9 pages of talk. The ending was left open. That's really all there is to it.

Bioware's games have always had the player's personal story at heart. They took the time on KotOR, for example, to mould the sequel so that your own character's story would remain valid within the new plot.

Yeah. Except Bioware didn't make Kotor 2

[crimzontearz]

Argolas wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Has this been posted yet?

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

-Tully A

Also it should be noted that the files associated with the breath scene are named "End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik" and "End03_Shepard_Alive_Female.bik."

Yes it has been posted, more than once. Just like the file names and links to articels quoting Tully Ackland. However, this does not seem to count as proof.

Skepticism is based on contradictory statements made after that comment was made.

The original intention is made clear best by old statements. In fact, the linked post by Tully Ackland is as clear as it will get. He basically says that the Breath Scene is meant to show that Shepard survives, but in case that this wasn't clear enough yet, the EC included another hint in the memorial wall scene.

If you want that scene to mean that Shepard lives, it's true. We won't be hearing anything else from Shepard anymore, so headcanon ahead.

you want "as clear as it gets"?


 
Here


 








Brenon Holmes
09:40 AM 2012-03-06
So yeah, there's a secret Shepard lives ending - it's not super happy though. It's more like a movie trailer thing where it hints at a sequel (there is no sequel, afaik - I'm just using it to illustrate the type of cinematic).



Notice the date, again this came to me after he asked Preston (look at the credits and you will see who Preston is)


 
The interpretation BS started after they realized that

A: Destroy was overshadowing the two pet endings (no disrespect, it is obvious Mac and Casey wanted us to LOOOOVE them...hence why they got way more closure)

And

B: IT was sooooo rampant that saying it was mot valid would have looked VERY bad

Modifié par crimzontearz, 08 février 2013 - 12:15 .

[RocketManSR2]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I never said it was an Easter Egg (at least, I dont remember ever saying that, and if I did I was wrong, because it is not an Easter egg).

The breath scene is there for fans who want to see Shepard's first breath after the end or his last breath after the end. It is up to the interpretation of the player as to which it is.

And that totally sucks, because there is nothing that shows me that Shepard will live. He's alive for the moment, but he has multiple injuries, including a damn gunshot wound. He's pinned by a large chunk of debris, there is no sign of a rescue team, the Normandy is days/weeks away from Sol, and BioWare expects me to headcanon a positive outcome? Don't make me laugh. Shepard will die a slow, cold, lonely death.

- When Tali finally reaches Earth, she will have only a casket draped in an Alliance flag waiting for her.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 08 février 2013 - 12:13 .

[Mcfly616]

Argolas wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Has this been posted yet?

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

---Tully Ackland

ttp://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12758618]link[/url]


Also it should be noted that the files associated with the breath scene are named "End03_Shepard_Alive_Male.bik" and "End03_Shepard_Alive_Female.bik."

Yes it has been posted, more than once. Just like the file names and links to articels quoting Tully Ackland. However, this does not seem to count as proof.

Skepticism is based on contradictory statements made after that comment was made.

The original intention is made clear best by old statements. In fact, the linked post by Tully Ackland is as clear as it will get. He basically says that the Breath Scene is meant to show that Shepard survives, but in case that this wasn't clear enough yet, the EC included another hint in the memorial wall scene.

If you want that scene to mean that Shepard lives, it's true. We won't be hearing anything else from Shepard anymore, so headcanon ahead.

pretty much...


I feel like Bioware just got sick of repeatedly having to answer the question and just said "fine....it means whatever you want it to mean"


For whatever reason, the file name (which has been known since the games release), the strategy guide, Tully Ackland, or just the simple fact that the scene only plays in that specific ending.....aren't enough for some people to get it through their head that it signifies Shepard's survival.

Makes me question whether they're just wanting it to be his last breath even though they know its not, for the sole purpose of having a reason to complain.

Modifié par Mcfly616, 08 février 2013 - 12:13 .

[Davik Kang]

o Ventus wrote...
Yeah. Except Bioware didn't make Kotor 2

Oh yeah whoops that leaves me looking pretty damn silly.

Still, personal story... up to player to decide... as many games are... because they put you in protagonist's shoes... damage control... that'll do... now I gotta climb outta this hole...

[1337b0r0m1r]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

And that totally sucks, because there is nothing that shows me that Shepard will live. He's alive for the moment, but he has multiple injuries, including a damn gunshot wound. He's pinned by a large chunk of debris, there is no sign of a rescue team, the Normandy is days/weeks away from Sol, and BioWare expects me to headcanon a positive outcome? Don't make me laugh. Shepard will die a slow, cold, lonely death.

- When Tali finally reaches Earth, she will have only a casket draped in an Alliance flag waiting for her.

Well, if it was a movie... have you seen many action/popcorn-ish movies where something really bad happens towards one of the heroes toward the end, and the viewer doesn't know what happened to him for some time, but then this hero reappers in terrible condition on the screen - but dies anyway? Doesn't happen too often, does it?

If someone can survive a free fall from space onto the surface of a planet in nothing but an armor suit, then he/she can surely survive that too. 

[Davik Kang]

LineHolder wrote...
I'm ok with headcanoning sometimes, though I'm amazed at how much I'm required to do at the end of ME3. 

The way I saw the ME series is that you begin with a background story and try to frame your playthrough, choices and interactions. So a little bit of imagination here and there adds to the excitement. It's like kids with toys. You see a plastic figurine. They see Superman smashing through a planet. 

So, filling in holes here and there with your imagination can be fun but totally coming up with your own scenario for the end? I don't know about that.

The original endings did leave a lot to fill in, but with the EC, what was implied was given visual context too.  I really don't think there's that much to fill in.  Relays gone, or damaged, Reapers gone or pacified, Shepard gone, unless breath scene in which case you have an uplifting final moment.

What could they have added thta would have made it better?  Everyone wants different things.  Some want medal ceremonies.  Others want the Rachni to arrive and squish Harbinger.  Most people want different stuf, but within the parameters of the actual ending(s), there's not much more to add.

Tbh I think this 'headcanon' criticism comes more from the inital disappointment and confusion surrounding the endings.  There isn't really much headcanon-ing to do at all.  I think most want to headcanon a completely different ending to ME3.  But that's not what this thread is about.