83 odpowiedzi w tym temacie

[RedCaesar97]

brad2240 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

Solution without re-introducing weapon restrictions.
Make the soldier deal even more weapon damage, buff it's time dilaiton and give the soldier greater stability.

Personally I don't even think more time dilation is needed. Just damage/stability.

And more weight capacity, for those who like a lot of guns strapped to them. Not my style but I'd like to see it for those who play that way.

One of the Soldier's biggest problems with weight capacity (besides not having enough) is that you can only increase it at rank 6, but at the expense of more weapon damage and ammo power damage.

Compare this to every other class which can increase their capacity at rank 5 at the expense of squadmate buffs.

I would have to check the in-game numbers, but ignoring Tactical Cloak, Charge, and Adrenaline Rush, I think the Soldier's passive already allows for the same weapon damage as Vanguard and Infiltrator. The Soldier does get more damage from Ammo Powers. 

More stability (and possibly accuracy) in the passive would be ideal.

[brad2240]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

One of the Soldier's biggest problems with weight capacity (besides not having enough) is that you can only increase it at rank 6, but at the expense of more weapon damage and ammo power damage.

That bugs me to no end. I always thought the Headshot Damage should have been folded into Weapon Master at rank 6 and replaced with the +50 weight. Then the other rank 6 evo could be another +50 weight or something else entirely.

And, IMO, Soldier should have a higher base weapon damage bonus that either Vanguard or Infiltrator, and then the evolutions should widen that even more. Given that they have arguably the best powers in the game, Infiltrators and VGs can stand to be a bit behind in weapons damage.

But I'm a Soldier fanboy so I might be biased.

[capn233]

Since they were set on all classes having the same health, they could have given Soldier a 30% DR bonus increasing incrementally with rank of Combat Mastery. But even Stability bonus would have been nice.

[thisisme8]

I'm with Kronner on this one. I felt the Vanguard to be the pinnacle of high risk-high reward gameplay in ME2. The rush of charging into enemies and shooting/bashing your way out was so much fun, but in ME3 it felt way too easy. Nova just made them so powerful the rush was gone.

I find myself playing an Adept in ME1 (with Shotgun/Bastion), Vanguard in ME2, and going Adept/Sentinel in ME3.

[Abraham_uk]

The soldier is actually much better than I thought.

I've edited my earlier post where I review every class.

With the soldier I felt more encouraged to try out new guns.
Damn Mass Effect 3 has some pretty cool guns.

That Chakram Launcher that I wrongly assumed to be woeful was a killing machine!
Graal Spike throw got used a lot when I played soldier
The Talon and Saber were used. They're really nice weapons.

I managed to get more millage out of the geth pulse rifle. The normally woeful gun was transformed into a powerhouse when combined with incendiary ammo and adrenaline rush.


Also Rannoch Reaper didn't take me loads of attempts unlike other classes. The soldier's adrenaline rush allowed me to get longer targeting bursts and run out of the way quicker.


I've been trying out a lot of guns. Every weapon class got used, with the exception of SMG class. I know there are some good SMG's in Ground Resistance and Firefight, but I never downloaded those.

I don't like burst fire weapons on Commander Shepard so the N7 Valkyrie, Argus, Vindicator, Hornet, Suriken and Incisor were not used. Not that they're bad weapons (they're quite good) just not my cup of tea.

[Abraham_uk]

With the soldier I didn't want to use the Prothean Particle Rifle too much.

Simply because I use that gun on every play through.
Whilst it's an amazing gun, I felt I was missing out on the other gems in the game.
Turns out I was.

Also I hope the Chrakram Launcher makes it to multiplayer.


The point I was making, is until I played the soldier class, I had little incentive to try out the other guns. I was far to busy using my powers.

With the soldier, it felt necessary.

Użytkownik Abraham_uk edytował ten post 14 luty 2013 - 05:01

[brad2240]

Abraham_uk wrote...

The soldier is actually much better than I thought.

I've edited my earlier post where I review every class.

With the soldier I felt more encouraged to try out new guns.
Damn Mass Effect 3 has some pretty cool guns.

That Chakram Launcher that I wrongly assumed to be woeful was a killing machine!
Graal Spike throw got used a lot when I played soldier
The Talon and Saber were used. They're really nice weapons.

I managed to get more millage out of the geth pulse rifle. The normally woeful gun was transformed into a powerhouse when combined with incendiary ammo and adrenaline rush.


Also Rannoch Reaper didn't take me loads of attempts unlike other classes. The soldier's adrenaline rush allowed me to get longer targeting bursts and run out of the way quicker.


I've been trying out a lot of guns. Every weapon class got used, with the exception of SMG class. I know there are some good SMG's in Ground Resistance and Firefight, but I never downloaded those.

I don't like burst fire weapons on Commander Shepard so the N7 Valkyrie, Argus, Vindicator, Hornet, Suriken and Incisor were not used. Not that they're bad weapons (they're quite good) just not my cup of tea.

I'm glad you liked the Soldier.

I don't use a lot of burst fire weapons on Shep either. The Hornet is an acquired taste but decent when you get the hang of it. Can't stand it in MP, though, for some reason. The Vindicator I hated my first time through ME2, but later learned to love it by using it more on casters. I don't like it as much in ME3 and prefer the Mattock for a light AR, or Phaeston if I want full auto.

I prefer full auto weapons on my Soldier anyway, with preferences being the Revenant and the GPR (another gun I can't stand in MP). I also generally try to use different weapons on my Soldier than my other classes.

[BrutalReaper32]

Sentinel:10/10 I actually love the tech armor in ME2 more than tech armor in ME3 xD because if I was dying I can activate it and get new shields to survive. I also like the variety of tech and biotic powers :S
anguard:10/10 pretty fun to destroy everything in matter of seconds, I´ve rapped every enemy with my powers and the GPS, in ME3 I have to use the reegar carabine, not really useful against reapers :C
infiltrator:9/10 I use this class instead of soldier, because I can do more damage with every weapon and the tactical cloack can save your life a lot of times, pretty fun to use if you use it with a shotgun like a geth hunter :S
engineer:8/10 a good class, but I prefer guns over tech powers, and with that class I can use the best guns :C I miss the combat dron from ME2, the combat dron from ME3 is useless :C
adept:8/10 really powerful class, but that´s why I don´t like it too much, that class is really overpowered in ME3 so I don´t use it too much
soldier:7/10 good class but it´s like playing any military tps, I like guns but I can use heavy guns with sentinel and infiltrator.

[Bleachrude]

brad2240 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

I don't get why people like weapons restrictions on classes.

Maybe they're RPG traditionalists and think casters should be restricted to light weapons. Or maybe they think it gives each class more of a defined role. Or maybe they're afraid of the situation we have with the Soldier now, where the "weapons" class isn't that much better than a caster with the same gun. Who knows?

I'm neutral to the whole thing really. Restrictions never bothered me because each class always had useable guns. I don't think any of them ever suffered because of not starting with an AR or SR. Bonus weapons/talents made it even less of an issue. Neither does every class having all weapons bother me, except that I wish the Soldier had more of an edge, like stability built into his passive and/or more weapon damage bonuses.

Cant be RPG traditionalists.

Dragon age had open weapon matches...your mage could wield a sword and a fighter could wield a staff....It just wasn't as effective in the hands of the "proper" class.

Personally, I've ALWAYS found it to be world-breaking that you can't use any weapon in a modern-futuristic RPG. The reason why it made sense in a medieval themed world was that it took MUCH years of practice in real life to get "good/decent" with medieval weapons.

The english longbowmen were rightly feared by the French and this was because the english lords/kings made it a law that every englishman had to practise once  a week. A knight, starting from being a squire, was also at least a decade of training...

So yes, it makes it somewhat logical that in medieval RPGs that you can't wield every weapon type.

In modern-futuristic RPGs though? Shepard is a N7...supposedly the ME equivalent to the SAS and other special forces IRL, yet if he's an engineer, he can't even pick up an assault rifle OR a shotgun?

And this doesn't bother anyone else sense of versimilitude?

Użytkownik Bleachrude edytował ten post 25 luty 2013 - 08:30

[brad2240]

Bleachrude wrote...

Cant be RPG traditionalists.

Sure it can.

There are people out there that play Dungeons & Dragons (talking pen & paper here) or play/played old school RPG video games where mages were rectriced to things like a staff and only combat classes had access to all weapons. That's how they like it and there's nothing wrong with that.

DA is completely irrelevant to this point. 

And this doesn't bother anyone else sense of versimilitude?

It never bothered me. Theoretically it was done for game balance, but even of that didn't work as well as planned Shepard never really lacks for firepower. Pistols are the highest DPS weapon in ME1, and both pistols and SMGs are great weapons in ME2. Add in bonus weapons and any and every class can shoot all it wants and very effectively at that

[Bleachrude]

brad2240 wrote...

Bleachrude wrote...

Cant be RPG traditionalists.

Sure it can.

There are people out there that play Dungeons & Dragons (talking pen & paper here) or play/played old school RPG video games where mages were rectriced to things like a staff and only combat classes had access to all weapons. That's how they like it and there's nothing wrong with that.

DA is completely irrelevant to this point. 

And this doesn't bother anyone else sense of versimilitude?

It never bothered me. Theoretically it was done for game balance, but even of that didn't work as well as planned Shepard never really lacks for firepower. Pistols are the highest DPS weapon in ME1, and both pistols and SMGs are great weapons in ME2. Add in bonus weapons and any and every class can shoot all it wants and very effectively at that

*LOL*

I'm old school in that I started with 1st edition of AD&D and yes it makes sense like I said that you were restricted to certain weapons but I also played _OTHER_ TSR RPGs like Amazing Engines and Gamma World and other RPG company systems like Traveller (there is _NO_ Megatraveller) and GUPRS.

And they ALL allowed for the use of any weaponry by the character in modern-futuristic settings.

Thus, no way, no how, anyone who calls them a RPG traditionalist can say with a straight face that weapon restrictions on modern-future characters is a RPG tradtion since frankly, the tradition is the EXACT opposite.

Apparently, most people assume that there is only 1 type of RPG even back in the caveman days of the 80s....

Użytkownik Bleachrude edytował ten post 25 luty 2013 - 03:20

[brad2240]

[quote]Bleachrude wrote...

I'm old school in that I started with 1st edition of AD&D [/quote[

So have I, and I still play to this day. I've also played a ton of other P&P games, computer games, western and japanese RPGs, that restrict certain classes to certain weapons, regardless of setting. So don't act like it never happened.

[quote[Thus, no way, no how, anyone who calls them a RPG traditionalist can say with a straight face that weapon restrictions on modern-future characters is a RPG tradtion since frankly, the tradition is the EXACT opposite.
[/quote]

Well f*** me. I'm so glad you came here and told me what an RPG tradionalist is and what they're allowed to think.

Get off your goddamn high horse.

[Bleachrude]

??? Off my high horse?

Given that the complaint was that ME3 is not a traditional RPG because it allows for open weapon usage, it should then be easy to prove this by pointing out in which classic tabeltop RPGs, it is ignoring.

So name for me what table top RPGs actually restricted weapons in modern/future settings.

I can rattle off a long line of RPGs that did the opposite in such settings, (GURPS, CORPS, Amaxing Engine, Boot Hill, Champions, Traveller, D6 etc)

I am honestly blanking on the ME1/ME2 model though....unless you are using the japanese videogame RPGs and I don'tt hink those are considered "traditional" RPGs though by western audiences...

[Abraham_uk]

Wow. This is getting personal.

How these discussions should ideally go.

X makes a point.
Y disagrees.
X makes an argument to defend said point.
Y makes an argument to defend said disagreement.

Both X and Y have raised valid arguments without personal insults.

No one has the high horse. Both X and Y are merely having a healthy debate.

[Abraham_uk]

I've noticed there are a lot of overpowered tricks one can use.

A soldier can self detonate with incendiary concussive shot.
Marksman can be used during tactical cloak.
Vanguard has charge nova.


Balance is hurt badly.

[Bleachrude]

I'm trying not to be insulting but part of the claim against ME3 NOT being a true "traditional" RPG is that it offers open weapion usages...

This however I can't see as being true since every "traditional" tabletop RPG that I can think of has ALWAYS had open weapon usage.

What the difference was that if said RPG had classes (another thing not seen a lot in modern-future RPGs), the weapon using classes would get bonuses that would make weapons better in their hands.

Thus, a pistol in the hands of a soldier would do more damage (higher passives) but they would get more "weapon tricks". (thus in ME1, only the soldiers would actually get access to the Marksmen talent)

[Bleachrude]

Abraham_uk wrote...

I've noticed there are a lot of overpowered tricks one can use.

A soldier can self detonate with incendiary concussive shot.
Marksman can be used during tactical cloak.
Vanguard has charge nova.


Balance is hurt badly.

I'm not sure this is a BAD thing, the fact that yuo can combine skills to make devasting combos....there should be benefits for players that get further into the game once they acquire the points...

A solution would be trying to factor these tactics when designing enemies/environment...

Admittedly this is MUCH, MUCH harder since if you deisng for people using combinations of powers, it means that any person NOT using said powers is going to be savaged.

The simple fact is...the more CHOICE you give players in terms of how they build and use their characters, the HARDER it is to actually balance the game...

Take the Biotic power Charge for example.

In ME2, the only difference between Shepard is the final evolution, thus the designer at best has to create an enemy/scenario for two possible uses of harge...

Contrast this with Charge in ME3 where you have now 6 possible permutations of charge....yeah, the designer is looking at much harder designer work to adequately challenge this version of shepard...

I'm honestly not sure you can have customization with balance...people tend to agree that ME2 was the best balanced of the 3 games but it ALSO was the one with the least amount of customization of skills, weapons and loadouts....

Food for thought..

[BronzTrooper]

* bump *

[MegaSovereign]

I've been taking a liking to the Engineer class lately. With the Combat Drone and Turret on your side you basically have an army.

[Abraham_uk]

Balance is really hard to achieve.

I think (I cannot prove and this point isn't backed up by anything), the trouble with "power" shooters, is how do you make the various options available to the player all "viable" without making one option massively more powerful than the other.

Then you are not only taking into account how the various powers, melee, weapons and other combat abilities compare to each other, you must then compare what you can do against enemies.

Are my abilities too powerful against enemy types or have they become nerfed to the point of uselessness?

To even have a game where "powers" function in a way that is fun is in and of itself quite an achievement. But to then make these powers truly balanced, I don't blame the developers. It's really, really tricky.

[Steelcan]

I personally favor the sentinel and vanguard. Trying out the soldier and engineer soon. Don't care for adept or infiltrator.

[GreyLycanTrope]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I've been taking a liking to the Engineer class lately. With the Combat Drone and Turret on your side you basically have an army.

Suggest either a defense drone or Decoy to bulster your ranks General.

[godlike13]

The problem i have with ME3's Vanguard is how they pulled him away fro being a weapon/power class, and made him into more of just a power class.

They got rid of the point blank modifier, which is fine, but the weapon synergy on Charge is a joke. It should be the same as power synergy, and IMO both synergy bonuses should be at least 25% SP/40% MP.
In fact if im being completely honest i think Charge should have a base 40% weapon bonus after Charge. Keeping with TC's and AR's weapon bonus.

It would have made him a more versatile class IMO, with less leaning towards Nova spamming, and it would have made the class' transition into MP better too.

Użytkownik godlike13 edytował ten post 26 kwiecień 2013 - 08:02

[KaiserShep]

Adept turned out to be my favorite in the end, but it sure was challenging to progress in the beginning when I started my campaign from ME1 onward. Soldier is probably my least favorite, but then shooting was never as big a concern to me. I like seeing how much damage I can inflict on heavily armed/armored enemies with as few shots as possible, and in ME3, I ended up jumping into missions with nothing but my best pistol.

[Guglio08]

The Sentinel is by far the best class in ME3. I played him with the Hurricane and it's almost unfair how good of a class it is. Especially now that the powers have been changed to mimic MP,

Armored guys? Warp + Throw.
Shields and Barriers? Overload (although I used Energy Drain).
Health? Cryo Blast
Tech Armor through walls, lift grenades for clusters of enemies, etc. It's just insane.