579 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You aren't going to try and argue that relationships don't need a form of physical attraction to atleast initiate? Because that is a fudamental part of our biology.  

Why would I? Again, I'm not suggesting Joker form an a romantic attachment to the ship,

See, THAT would have been interesting. We have examples of cross species relationships all over ME - why not an emotional relationship between a human and a sentient starship? I'm waiting for the EVA platorfom to break, and have EDI possess a Geth platform. How much of a relationship do we have now?

Too weird? Probably.

[MegaSovereign]

Mr.House wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Romancing a synthetic was always silly to begin with, with or without the sexy body.

I always viewed Joker and EDI's relationship as platonic. I thought Bioware was kidding around pre-release when they were hinting at a romance between the two. It seemed more like misguided fanfare.

Regardless, I enjoyed EDI's character development in the third game, even if I didn't like the direction they decided to take with synthetics.

The romance thing was teased before ME2 even came out, it was always going to happen.

The game itself certainly didn't imply any romantic build up between the two. It was basically friend zone until EDI got her virtual hands on a new body.

[Iakus]

Mr.House wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...



EDI isn't an inanimate object. She's an intelligent, self aware being with a fully formed personality. If the car was an intelligent, self-aware being with a personality then things would be different.

True EDI is not, but the robot body is when she is not in it, She can leave that body anytime she wants to, what happens if she has something important to do and leaves while Joker is going at it? Yes I can make the joker and EDI relationship in ME3 even more creepy then it already is.

You don't have to.

EDI is never "in" the robot to begin with.  She controls it via remote with broadcast or tighbeam signals.  Thus why the robot can never be too far away from the Normandy itself.

[humes spork]

Mr.House wrote...

We are not talking about the Normandy, we are talking about EDI.

So, every crewman who is or ever has been assigned to the SR-2 has had their peener in EDI.

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Her body isn't the reason for the attachment, it is her personality. Her body just gives him the incentive to persue a relationship.

I beg to differ. Far more emphasis is placed on her appearance than any other aspect of her character. 

You aren't going to try and argue that relationships don't need a form of physical attraction to atleast initiate? Because that is a fudamental part of our biology.  

Why would I? Again, I'm not suggesting Joker form an a romantic attachment to the ship,

You do undestand it was EDI who started the romance...Not Joker.

Irrelevant. The relationship requires both sides to be attracted to each other, and Shepard's attempt to get them both together starts by giving EDI into how she can provoke Joker into admitting feelings he already has. 

[Eterna]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

iakus wrote...
EDI isn't the orb.  She isn't even the 'bot, really.  She's the Normandy.

That's where the Joker/EDI relationship really missed the mark.  Here was an opportunity to show an organic/synthetic relationship that really transcended physical boundaries, and instead EDI's appearance gets reduced to a juvenile fantasy.

Hit the nail on the head.

Objectophilia 

EDI is more than just an inanimate object.

The Normandy certainly is. 

So it'snot objectophillia. This is far more natural than some loony having sex with a car, EDI can talk, could easily enough conjure a more human projection instead of an orb, can interact with others, and has a personality. 

Even if EDI can do all those things it still wouldn't change the fact that she is the ship and Joker would have no interest in a romantic relationship. 

[Eterna]

Obadiah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You aren't going to try and argue that relationships don't need a form of physical attraction to atleast initiate? Because that is a fudamental part of our biology.  

Why would I? Again, I'm not suggesting Joker form an a romantic attachment to the ship,

See, THAT would have been interesting. We have examples of cross species relationships all over ME - why not an emotional relationship between a human and a sentient starship? I'm waiting for the EVA platorfom to break, and have EDI possess a Geth platform. How much of a relationship do we have now?

Too weird? Probably.

It would be a form of mental illness. 

[Ck213]

:lol:The things people whine about.
I like that they gave EDI a body. I also liked having her on missions.

[dreman9999]

Eterna5 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Not as awkward as it could be. At least with EDI in a body their is probably grounds for a fulfilling relationship to occur as apposed to Joker making out with the Normandys dashboard. 

You do know Jokers bones can break very easily.... Which was established in...MASS EFFECT.

I'm aware, but as you said, there is more to a relationship than just sex. In a human body EDI can provide humanistic companionship. 

sigh How is this not creepy or less creepy then Joker and orb EDI have a relationship?

Because she is a personality housed in a human like physical form that is capable of meeting all the needs for a fulfilling romantic relationship. 

You do undestand it was EDI who started the romance...Not Joker.

That's actually sort of irrelevant to what we are discussing. 

It is.
Think about for a momment.
If EDI was the one who started it, that mean the attraction started with her.
Sure , you can say Joker is physically attracted to here but on his side that was as far as we was going to take it. 
Simply looking form afar.

EDI was the one that started any romantic intrest if the first place.
With that it's best to look at this romance at her point of veiw.

You guys are looking at it based on Jokers and based on a humans side.

[Dark_Caduceus]

iakus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...



EDI isn't an inanimate object. She's an intelligent, self aware being with a fully formed personality. If the car was an intelligent, self-aware being with a personality then things would be different.

True EDI is not, but the robot body is when she is not in it, She can leave that body anytime she wants to, what happens if she has something important to do and leaves while Joker is going at it? Yes I can make the joker and EDI relationship in ME3 even more creepy then it already is.

You don't have to.

EDI is never "in" the robot to begin with.  She controls it via remote with broadcast or tighbeam signals.  Thus why the robot can never be too far away from the Normandy itself.

And the human body is controlled by a network of neurons sending electrical impulses to control muscles and physiological functions. If you somehow removed someone's brain and set it up so that it could remotely control their body; would that make it strange to be romantically involved with said body?

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

Even if EDI can do all those things it still wouldn't change the fact that she is the ship and Joker would have no interest in a romantic relationship. 

Why not? People already grow attached to her before she has a body because of her personality and her ability to interact. I don't see why it's a stretch to have Joker form some sort of stronger affection because he's already attached to the Normandy.

It's not that out of the realm of possibility. I won't repeat again that I don't think it should just happen like that. 

[Dark_Caduceus]

Ck213 wrote...

:lol:The things people whine about.
I like that they gave EDI a body. I also liked having her on missions.

I heard that avoiding issues is really easy if you label valid criticisms as "whining".

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Her body isn't the reason for the attachment, it is her personality. Her body just gives him the incentive to persue a relationship.

I beg to differ. Far more emphasis is placed on her appearance than any other aspect of her character. 

You aren't going to try and argue that relationships don't need a form of physical attraction to atleast initiate? Because that is a fudamental part of our biology.  

Why would I? Again, I'm not suggesting Joker form an a romantic attachment to the ship,

You do undestand it was EDI who started the romance...Not Joker.

Irrelevant. The relationship requires both sides to be attracted to each other, and Shepard's attempt to get them both together starts by giving EDI into how she can provoke Joker into admitting feelings he already has. 

Not irrelivent.
Joker was hessitant to even start a romance with her.
If EDI was the one who started it, that mean the attraction started with her.
Sure , you can say Joker is physically attracted to here but on his side that was as far as we was going to take it. 
Simply looking form afar.

EDI was the one that started any romantic intrest if the first place.
With that it's best to look at this romance at her point of veiw.

You guys are looking at it based on Jokers and based on a humans side.

It makes all the difference that EDIstarted the romance.

[Eterna]

dreman9999 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Not as awkward as it could be. At least with EDI in a body their is probably grounds for a fulfilling relationship to occur as apposed to Joker making out with the Normandys dashboard. 

You do know Jokers bones can break very easily.... Which was established in...MASS EFFECT.

I'm aware, but as you said, there is more to a relationship than just sex. In a human body EDI can provide humanistic companionship. 

sigh How is this not creepy or less creepy then Joker and orb EDI have a relationship?

Because she is a personality housed in a human like physical form that is capable of meeting all the needs for a fulfilling romantic relationship. 

You do undestand it was EDI who started the romance...Not Joker.

That's actually sort of irrelevant to what we are discussing. 

It is.
Think about for a momment.
If EDI was the one who started it, that mean the attraction started with her.
Sure , you can say Joker is physically attracted to here but on his side that was as far as we was going to take it. 
Simply looking form afar.

EDI was the one that started any romantic intrest if the first place.
With that it's best to look at this romance at her point of veiw.

You guys are looking at it based on Jokers and based on a humans side.

EDI can't feel attraction, that is a human trait. She started the relationship for completely unhuman reasons, such as a desire to understand and learn what an organic relationship is. 

[dreman9999]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

iakus wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...



EDI isn't an inanimate object. She's an intelligent, self aware being with a fully formed personality. If the car was an intelligent, self-aware being with a personality then things would be different.

True EDI is not, but the robot body is when she is not in it, She can leave that body anytime she wants to, what happens if she has something important to do and leaves while Joker is going at it? Yes I can make the joker and EDI relationship in ME3 even more creepy then it already is.

You don't have to.

EDI is never "in" the robot to begin with.  She controls it via remote with broadcast or tighbeam signals.  Thus why the robot can never be too far away from the Normandy itself.

And the human body is controlled by a network of neurons sending electrical impulses to control muscles and physiological functions. If you somehow removed someone's brain and set it up so that it could remotely control their body; would that make it strange to be romantically involved with said body?

The same thing can be said about here being part of the ship.

[Eterna]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Even if EDI can do all those things it still wouldn't change the fact that she is the ship and Joker would have no interest in a romantic relationship. 

Why not? People already grow attached to her before she has a body because of her personality and her ability to interact. I don't see why it's a stretch to have Joker form some sort of stronger affection because he's already attached to the Normandy.

It's not that out of the realm of possibility. I won't repeat again that I don't think it should just happen like that. 

He could develop feelings for her in theory, but it would never advance to the point it did with her body to true love. Human beings simply need more out of a relationship than what EDi in orb form can provide. 

I feel like we're going in circles. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 09 février 2013 - 01:46 .

[Kel Riever]

 Ancient argument is ancient.  

Take it up with Metropolis and work forward from there:

[MegaSovereign]

Eterna5 wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Romancing a synthetic was always silly to begin with, with or without the sexy body.

I always viewed Joker and EDI's relationship as platonic. I thought Bioware was kidding around pre-release when they were hinting at a romance between the two. It seemed more like misguided fanfare.

Regardless, I enjoyed EDI's character development in the third game, even if I didn't like the direction they decided to take with synthetics.

Why was the romance silly? She is a personality with a human like character and is able to even give consent, so why not? 

Seemed more like a fling because the galaxy was burning. At least that's how Joker initially approached it.

It was always silly to me. Synthetic life is awesome and unique in it's own sense because they have a certain practical mindset that organic's can't quite emulate. Likewise, strong organic emotions like love and lust, in my conservative sci-fi opinion, should be exclusive to organics.

Yea yea, I get it. Organics and synthetics are both technically a combination of hardware and software when you break it down. I like pinocchio as much as the next guy, but it wouldn't hurt to have some diversity between the two domains.

[ioannisdenton]

kelnagryphon wrote...

Seboist wrote...
......The design of it is idiotic from the metal boobs(why wouldn't the boobs be made of that synthetic material like the skin?) to that fake as hell looking plastic/metal hair......

At least the hair is explained

had miss this! nice catch!!!!!!
link for the lazy!

Modifié par ioannisdenton, 09 février 2013 - 01:47 .

[The Night Mammoth]

dreman9999 wrote...
Not irrelivent.
Joker was hessitant to even start a romance with her.
If EDI was the one who started it, that mean the attraction started with her.
Sure , you can say Joker is physically attracted to here but on his side that was as far as we was going to take it. 
Simply looking form afar.

EDI was the one that started any romantic intrest if the first place.
With that it's best to look at this romance at her point of veiw.

You guys are looking at it based on Jokers and based on a humans side.

It makes all the difference that EDIstarted the romance.

You're not doing anything to convince me that it's relevant. They're attracted to each other, who makes the first move is irrelevant, especially when the person who makes said first move only does so at the encouragment of a third party, which undermines your argument. 

[dreman9999]

Eterna5 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Not as awkward as it could be. At least with EDI in a body their is probably grounds for a fulfilling relationship to occur as apposed to Joker making out with the Normandys dashboard. 

You do know Jokers bones can break very easily.... Which was established in...MASS EFFECT.

I'm aware, but as you said, there is more to a relationship than just sex. In a human body EDI can provide humanistic companionship. 

sigh How is this not creepy or less creepy then Joker and orb EDI have a relationship?

Because she is a personality housed in a human like physical form that is capable of meeting all the needs for a fulfilling romantic relationship. 

You do undestand it was EDI who started the romance...Not Joker.

That's actually sort of irrelevant to what we are discussing. 

It is.
Think about for a momment.
If EDI was the one who started it, that mean the attraction started with her.
Sure , you can say Joker is physically attracted to here but on his side that was as far as we was going to take it. 
Simply looking form afar.

EDI was the one that started any romantic intrest if the first place.
With that it's best to look at this romance at her point of veiw.

You guys are looking at it based on Jokers and based on a humans side.

EDI can't feel attraction, that is a human trait. She started the relationship for completely unhuman reasons, such as a desire to understand and learn what an organic relationship is. 

Nope. EDI can't feel attration the way we do, not that She can't feel it at all. That just means how it's processed is different.
If she could not feel attraction at all she would never made any step to attracting Joker at all. Remeber, She went to Shepard asking him/her who to get the romance statedin the first place. 

It not that synthetics don'thave emotions, it's just how they are processed is different.

[Eterna]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Romancing a synthetic was always silly to begin with, with or without the sexy body.

I always viewed Joker and EDI's relationship as platonic. I thought Bioware was kidding around pre-release when they were hinting at a romance between the two. It seemed more like misguided fanfare.

Regardless, I enjoyed EDI's character development in the third game, even if I didn't like the direction they decided to take with synthetics.

Why was the romance silly? She is a personality with a human like character and is able to even give consent, so why not? 

Seemed more like a fling because the galaxy was burning. At least that's how Joker initially approached it.

It was always silly to me. Synthetic life is awesome and unique in it's own sense because they have a certain practical mindset that organic's can't quite emulate. Likewise, strong organic emotions like love and lust, in my conservative sci-fi opinion, should be exclusive to organics.

Yea yea, I get it. Organics and synthetics are both technically a combination of hardware and software when you break it down. I like pinocchio as much as the next guy, but it wouldn't hurt to have some diversity between the two domains.

I wouldn;t say EDI feels love and lust for Joker. She programmed herself to recieve positive feedback whenever interacting with him, feedback is a placebo form of emotion. She probably likes spending time with Joker, but she feels no love or lust towards him. 

[Eterna]

dreman9999 wrote...

Nope. EDI can't feel attration the way we do, not that She can't feel it at all. That just means how it's processed is different.
If she could not feel attraction at all she would never made any step to attracting Joker at all. Remeber, She went to Shepard asking him/her who to get the romance statedin the first place. 

It not that synthetics don'thave emotions, it's just how they are processed is different.

No Synthetics don't have emotion, they have basic self preservation instincts and emotional substitutes. She appproaches Joker because like all Synthetics she seeks understanding of Organics. It really is nothing more. 

[dreman9999]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
Not irrelivent.
Joker was hessitant to even start a romance with her.
If EDI was the one who started it, that mean the attraction started with her.
Sure , you can say Joker is physically attracted to here but on his side that was as far as we was going to take it. 
Simply looking form afar.

EDI was the one that started any romantic intrest if the first place.
With that it's best to look at this romance at her point of veiw.

You guys are looking at it based on Jokers and based on a humans side.

It makes all the difference that EDIstarted the romance.

You're not doing anything to convince me that it's relevant. They're attracted to each other, who makes the first move is irrelevant, especially when the person who makes said first move only does so at the encouragment of a third party, which undermines your argument. 

Who make the first move in this case makes all the difference.
And the third party does not make a difference because EDI was arracted to Joker before asking for Shepard's help.
That still mean she was arracted on her own.
That does not change my argument.

My point here is your not looking at this how a machine with emotions look at it. Which is narroing your view.

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Even if EDI can do all those things it still wouldn't change the fact that she is the ship and Joker would have no interest in a romantic relationship. 

Why not? People already grow attached to her before she has a body because of her personality and her ability to interact. I don't see why it's a stretch to have Joker form some sort of stronger affection because he's already attached to the Normandy.

It's not that out of the realm of possibility. I won't repeat again that I don't think it should just happen like that. 

He could develop feelings for her in theory, but it would never advance to the point it did with her body to true love. Human beings simply need more out of a relationship than what EDi in orb form can provide. 

I feel like we're going in circles. 

We're going in circles for two reasons. 

You keep talking about Joker forming a romantic relationship with the Normandy, and I repeatedly say I don't think it should happen like that.

You talk about EDI/Normandy as more of an object that something far more like an actual human. It's not objectophillia when Joker isn't attracted to an inanimate object.