579 réponses à ce sujet

[HiddenInWar]

David7204 wrote...

Tell me. What does a woman need to be attractive? Or a man? And be honest.

All depends on personal preference.

To me: eyes, nice sense of humour, and a great ass.

[RogueBot]

Lathrim wrote...

RogueBot wrote...
But who cares, it's a video game. 

People who want videogames to be taken as more than a way to satisfy a teenager's sexual pleasures.

Fair enough, I get you. But I think one should keep reasonable expectations in regard to video-game storytelling.

I love games and I appreciate it when devs try to tell a good story, but I have yet to experience a video-game story that's actually great by anything other than "video-game standards".

Modifié par RogueBot, 10 février 2013 - 12:14 .

[darkway1]

Lathrim wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Tell me. What does a woman need to be attractive? Or a man? And be honest.

Exposing the shape of his/her genitals is not in that list, that's for sure. A desirable body is most certainly necessary, but the private part of it should not be exposed despite the fact that the character is wearing clothes in no way whatsoever. Doing so is plain and utter disrespect.

Hell, a case could be made to label it misogyny! I am absolutely not going there, however.

Your kinda highlighting the point........her shape is simply based on the ideal human form,she's has no shame or modesty,she's an AI......clothes are for functional reasons only,warmth,armour etc,all of which are irrelevant to EDI..........if EDI were a male then I'd expect him to walk around butt naked too...........EDI character does a great job of challenging our own insecurities and how we perceive others by how they look.
EDI has nothing to hide,no insecurities and presents her self bold as brass and in your face.....isn't that what we would ideally like to be able to do.......but we can't,stupid human feeling prevent most people from doing that as we don't meet our own ideal's.

And you are missing the point. The issue is that that lack of decency is disrespectful to many women (not all take offense to it) and men out here who want the gaming industry to be taken seriously by the general populace, and that isn't happening until pointless and insulting sexualization of characters (MOSTLY female) diminishes in frequency and success.

Give me a break.....you can add shed loads of nudity,sex,bad language and violence to any game.....a true mature game isn't afraid to tackle such themes.....it's an immature game that won't or doesn't know how to tackle such themes that makes all the difference.

Modifié par darkway1, 10 février 2013 - 12:12 .

[spirosz]

Okay, TW2 for example, shows no male nudity (waste down), yet isn't shy about showing most of Trish, double standards?

There has yet to be a "mature game", IMO.

[David7204]

Here's a little something David Gaider (the lead Dragon Age writer) wrote about reactions to male and female characters on his blog:

"More problematic is how people react when we first reveal characters. In a way, we’re asking them to react superficially to them because we’re only showing the characters and providing nothing more than their appearance… but even so it can be vicious, and often makes me uncomfortable to read. As a general rule (to which there are always exceptions) male characters tend to oohed and ahhed over by the female fans, who immediately begin conjuring backgrounds for them (if said background is unknown) and wondering if they’re romanceable. Female characters, meanwhile, are immediately condemned for every physical flaw they might have or the way they dress. And not just by male fans. It’s even worse if they have a screenshot which shows the character at an odd angle or in mid-expression.

Think I’m kidding? The initial reveal of Alistair was pretty positive, with lots of speculation over whether he was romanceable. The initial reveal of Morrigan focused— at length— over how ugly her face was, how big her lower lip appeared, and how her outfit was completely inappropriate for her character (despite them knowing nothing about her). The initial reveal of Fenris? Aside from some discussion of his outfit, it was largely talk over how cool he was and what his strange tatoos could mean, and how he was surely romanceable. With Isabela? Her “giant jawline”, the size of her breasts and her outfit. With Merrill? How she looked like a child, and how a child shouldn’t have such giant breasts (you had to see the screenshot) as it smacked of pedophilia."

[spirosz]

That is true David, and that is an issue for sure. I have yet to see many complaints about Kaidan becoming "buffed" up all of the sudden.

[SlottsMachine]

People are idiots is basically all I took from that quote. That's never going to change. 

Also this.

Modifié par General Slotts, 10 février 2013 - 12:32 .

[darkway1]

Lathrim wrote...

RogueBot wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

RogueBot wrote...
But who cares, it's a video game. 

People who want videogames to be taken as more than a way to satisfy a teenager's sexual pleasures.

Fair enough, I get you. But I think one should keep reasonable expectations in regards to video-game storytelling.

I love games and I appreciate it when devs try to tell a good story, but I have yet to experience a video-game story that's actually great by anything other than "video-game standards".

Yes, true. I do believe it is quite reasonable to expect a game to have a presentable level of maturity, however. Titles that possess sexualized characters for the sake of being sexualized are anything but that.

darkway1 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Tell me. What does a woman need to be attractive? Or a man? And be honest. 

Exposing the shape of his/her genitals is not in that list, that's for sure. A desirable body is most certainly necessary, but the private part of it should not be exposed despite the fact that the character is wearing clothes in no way whatsoever. Doing so is plain and utter disrespect.

Hell, a case could be made to label it misogyny! I am absolutely not going there, however.

Your kinda highlighting the point........her shape is simply based on the ideal human form,she's has no shame or modesty,she's an AI......clothes are for functional reasons only,warmth,armour etc,all of which are irrelevant to EDI..........if EDI were a male then I'd expect him to walk around butt naked too...........EDI character does a great job of challenging our own insecurities and how we perceive others by how they look.
EDI has nothing to hide,no insecurities and presents her self bold as brass and in your face.....isn't that what we would ideally like to be able to do.......but we can't,stupid human feeling prevent most people from doing that as we don't meet our own ideal's.

And you are missing the point. The issue is that that lack of decency is disrespectful to many women (not all take offense to it) and men out here who want the gaming industry to be taken seriously by the general populace, and that isn't happening until pointless and insulting sexualization of characters (MOSTLY female) diminishes in frequency and success.

Give me a break.....you can add shed loads of nudity,sex,bad language and violence to any game.....a true mature game isn't afraid to tackle such themes.....it's an immature game that won't or doesn't know how to tackle such themes that makes all the difference.

Nudity for the sake of nudity is the exact opposite of mature content. A game in which a woman walks around completely naked for no justifiable reason other than the fact that it makes her sexy is fucking childish!

Also, this:

spirosz wrote...

Okay, TW2 for example, shows no male nudity (waste down), yet isn't shy about showing most of Trish, double standards? 

There has yet to be a "mature game", IMO.

If the developers of Witcher2 were in fact "allowed" to to depict male gen's I'm sure they would have no issue doing so......all the nudity in W2 was in context and apart from the opening scene (where there's nudity)........you can play the game with out seeing any nudity what so ever......unless you choose to seek it.
Bioware characters are quite amazing.....on one end of the scale you have EDI but on the other you have say....Tali...her shape is obviously alien,she always covered up from head to toe,you never get to see what she actually looks like........and yet her personality is nothing short of beautiful.

[The Night Mammoth]

That's nice and all, but the game was released almost a whole year ago. This isn't an issue of aesthetic misconceptions anymore.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

Here's a little something David Gaider (the lead Dragon Age writer) wrote about reactions to male and female characters on his blog:

"More problematic is how people react when we first reveal characters. In a way, we’re asking them to react superficially to them because we’re only showing the characters and providing nothing more than their appearance… but even so it can be vicious, and often makes me uncomfortable to read. As a general rule (to which there are always exceptions) male characters tend to oohed and ahhed over by the female fans, who immediately begin conjuring backgrounds for them (if said background is unknown) and wondering if they’re romanceable. Female characters, meanwhile, are immediately condemned for every physical flaw they might have or the way they dress. And not just by male fans. It’s even worse if they have a screenshot which shows the character at an odd angle or in mid-expression.

Think I’m kidding? The initial reveal of Alistair was pretty positive, with lots of speculation over whether he was romanceable. The initial reveal of Morrigan focused— at length— over how ugly her face was, how big her lower lip appeared, and how her outfit was completely inappropriate for her character (despite them knowing nothing about her). The initial reveal of Fenris? Aside from some discussion of his outfit, it was largely talk over how cool he was and what his strange tatoos could mean, and how he was surely romanceable. With Isabela? Her “giant jawline”, the size of her breasts and her outfit. With Merrill? How she looked like a child, and how a child shouldn’t have such giant breasts (you had to see the screenshot) as it smacked of pedophilia."

Difference here being that organic characters---humans, elves, asari---are "naturally" equipped with said features. Eva's mechanical body was crafted with those attributes in mind, and it was forced onto a mostly asexual presence in the narrative.

Really, they're two different things. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 10 février 2013 - 02:35 .

[spirosz]

Maybe we should blame TIM's standards for the body? It was his agent after all, lol.

[Merchant2006]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 10 février 2013 - 06:37 .

[David7204]

That's always going to be the case in a video game, if not from a narrative-context, then from a meta-context. A character in a film or TV series can be attractive because her actress is attractive. But a video game character can't be attractive, unattractive, or even existent unless someone creates her to be that way. And I get the feeling many developers are condemned because of that when it's impossible to avoid.

I get the feeling that simply making a video game character attractive is seen as analogous to breast enhancement or something, since someone had to put focused work and effort in to do it as opposed to it occuring naturally. It's seen as a deviation from being 'naturally' attractive.

Modifié par David7204, 10 février 2013 - 12:42 .

[David7204]

How in the hell is fans overlooking 'male sexualization' indicitive of the industry being one-sided? Doesn't that post by Gaider make it clear that's something developers have no control over?

Modifié par David7204, 10 février 2013 - 12:42 .

[Cassandra Saturn]

guys, guys, just don't make sexualized comments or anything like that. stay on topic. this is NOT about EDI's "assets" or what part of her "body" leave that context out of the thread.

[darkway1]

Lathrim wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

If the developers of Witcher2 were in fact "allowed" to to depict male gen's I'm sure they would have no issue doing so......all the nudity in W2 was in context and apart from the opening scene (where there's nudity)........you can play the game with out seeing any nudity what so ever......unless you choose to seek it.
Bioware characters are quite amazing.....on one end of the scale you have EDI but on the other you have say....Tali...her shape is obviously alien,she always covered up from head to toe,you never get to see what she actually looks like........and yet her personality is nothing short of beautiful.

You know what that is? Speculation. When you have something concrete to counter what has been said in this thread you disagree with, try again. :/

Again your missing the point....if the Witcher was nude....who care's...it's in context..........it's not me dictating what's expectable or not,that up to each individual developer.
EDI's body simply reflects the ideal female form......the "******" blatantly highlights this fact as having such a feature has no purpose what so ever (she cast in chrome or what ever)..........other than mimicking the human female form.
EDI is a challenging character for reasons I have already stated,her presence will obviously cause some people offence.......hence this very thread.

Modifié par darkway1, 10 février 2013 - 01:09 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

How did this topic go from creepy robot-fetishist-dream-robot EDI to not showing someone's package in the Witcher?

[darkway1]

ReconTeam wrote...

How did this topic go from creepy robot-fetishist-dream-robot EDI to not showing someone's package in the Witcher?

LOL,it's all in the same ball park in a around about way.

[Jadebaby]

David7204 wrote...

Here's a little something David Gaider (the lead Dragon Age writer) wrote about reactions to male and female characters on his blog:

"More problematic is how people react when we first reveal characters. In a way, we’re asking them to react superficially to them because we’re only showing the characters and providing nothing more than their appearance… but even so it can be vicious, and often makes me uncomfortable to read. As a general rule (to which there are always exceptions) male characters tend to oohed and ahhed over by the female fans, who immediately begin conjuring backgrounds for them (if said background is unknown) and wondering if they’re romanceable. Female characters, meanwhile, are immediately condemned for every physical flaw they might have or the way they dress. And not just by male fans. It’s even worse if they have a screenshot which shows the character at an odd angle or in mid-expression.

Think I’m kidding? The initial reveal of Alistair was pretty positive, with lots of speculation over whether he was romanceable. The initial reveal of Morrigan focused— at length— over how ugly her face was, how big her lower lip appeared, and how her outfit was completely inappropriate for her character (despite them knowing nothing about her). The initial reveal of Fenris? Aside from some discussion of his outfit, it was largely talk over how cool he was and what his strange tatoos could mean, and how he was surely romanceable. With Isabela? Her “giant jawline”, the size of her breasts and her outfit. With Merrill? How she looked like a child, and how a child shouldn’t have such giant breasts (you had to see the screenshot) as it smacked of pedophilia."

lulz society.

[spirosz]

Merchant2006 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Okay, TW2 for example, shows no male nudity (waste down), yet isn't shy about showing most of Trish, double standards?

There has yet to be a "mature game", IMO.

YEAH! WE NEED MORE DIGITAL CGI PENISES IN OUR GAMES. HOOAH FOR EQUALITY. MAKE SURE THEY ALSO HAVE PUBIC HAIR AND ERECT WILLIES. THAT'S ONE STEP CLOSER TO MATURITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...

Yes.