579 réponses à ce sujet

[xAmilli0n]

Eterna5 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
It's before the beam run. Do you really think EDI would have ever felt as a part of the crew without her body? That she would have ever reached a equal footing in the crews mind if she stayed as a orb? 

Yes, because I could look past the orb. 

If EDI is restricted to the ship how could she ever have known what it is to be alive? How could she understand the human experience while confined to a ship? 

But is the human experience that unique?  Are we not in fact incrediby limited in what we can experience?  I always find it funny that in sci-fi in general, robots and AI are often trying to become human.  And how emotion is usually shown as being what is uniquely human, or the defining feature of being alive.

Just some thoughts your comment stirred up.

[spirosz]

Mr.House wrote...

Just because Miranda's sexualization was part of her character does not mean she should go out in a fire fight zone in a cat suit.

That is Bioware's fault on not adding enough resources to add armor, not Miranda herself.  That issue could of been easily avoided, while still keeping that "unique" look for each character, by adding unique armor, when in space or in combat situations.

[Mr.House]

Kabooooom wrote...

Believe it or not, playing to their sexuality to seduce and interrogating men is something females in espionage do, and intentionally

Yep. I actually had a conversation with my girlfriend about this awhile back. She was saying that every female spy drama she has seen basically hypersexualizes the lead character. My response was - well, yeah, but that is reality. They use sex as a weapon. And honestly, I think that is pretty damned clever.

Miranda never uses seduction at all in ME2 to advance the plot or any quest, nor does she interrogate anyone using her looks. Her design was pure fan service.

[Kabooooom]

They should have just made her a Roomba.

Side note: I really want a Roomba.

Miranda never uses seduction at all in ME2 to advance the plot or any
quest, nor does she interrogate anyone using her looks. Her design was
pure fan service.

What's your point? I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about the real-life application of sex in espionage. But way to read way too much into that post.

Modifié par Kabooooom, 09 février 2013 - 12:14 .

[KingWrex]

I still can't take EDI seriously. So I can't take her on missions. It makes Shep look ridiculous for having that sex bot follow her around. I still laugh when Shep walks up to someone and EDI is standing behind him/her in all her sexbot glory.

[Eterna]

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
It's before the beam run. Do you really think EDI would have ever felt as a part of the crew without her body? That she would have ever reached a equal footing in the crews mind if she stayed as a orb? 

Yes, because I could look past the orb. 

If EDI is restricted to the ship how could she ever have known what it is to be alive? How could she understand the human experience while confined to a ship? 

Because she's around humans 24/7.  Also, I don't believe she ever needs to truly "understand" humans as some would like, but that's me not liking what Bioware did with the whole arc... I liked the idea of her growing, but I don't know if the idea of a body necessarily improves her understanding.  I understand if you like the idea, I just think it would of been interesting if shown in other ways because it's so typical for AI's to "want to become more" and end up trying to achieve humanity, haha. 

How could having face to face conversations and organic relationships not help her grow and understand organics? How does being sorrounded by people all the time help her grow or understand them if they simply consider her as a inhuman computer? There is only so much one can learn from observation, observation only describes events, it does not explain them. 

[xAmilli0n]

spirosz wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Just because Miranda's sexualization was part of her character does not mean she should go out in a fire fight zone in a cat suit.

That is Bioware's fault on not adding enough resources to add armor, not Miranda herself.  That issue could of been easily avoided, while still keeping that "unique" look for each character, by adding unique armor, when in space or in combat situations.

I really liked Mirand's DLC armor from ME2.  Wish something like that would have her standard combat armor.

[Eterna]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
It's before the beam run. Do you really think EDI would have ever felt as a part of the crew without her body? That she would have ever reached a equal footing in the crews mind if she stayed as a orb? 

Yes, because I could look past the orb. 

If EDI is restricted to the ship how could she ever have known what it is to be alive? How could she understand the human experience while confined to a ship? 

But is the human experience that unique?  Are we not in fact incrediby limited in what we can experience?  I always find it funny that in sci-fi in general, robots and AI are often trying to become human.  And how emotion is usually shown as being what is uniquely human, or the defining feature of being alive.

Just some thoughts your comment stirred up.

By human experience I should have said organic experience. She like all Synthetics want to understand their creators because they already have full understanding of themselves. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
It's before the beam run. Do you really think EDI would have ever felt as a part of the crew without her body? That she would have ever reached a equal footing in the crews mind if she stayed as a orb? 

Yes, because I could look past the orb. 

If EDI is restricted to the ship how could she ever have known what it is to be alive? How could she understand the human experience while confined to a ship? 

Why does she need to understand the human experience?

Why can't she naturally develop into a unique character, instead of being forced down the sterotype route? 

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
How could having face to face conversations and organic relationships not help her grow and understand organics? How does being sorrounded by people all the time help her grow or understand them if they simply consider her as a inhuman computer? There is only so much one can learn from observation, observation only describes events, it does not explain them. 

She can still have face to "face" conversations.
She had a relationship with Joker before hand.
Traynor and Adams seem to treat her more than "an inhuman computer" even before the body.

[Mr.House]

spirosz wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Just because Miranda's sexualization was part of her character does not mean she should go out in a fire fight zone in a cat suit.

That is Bioware's fault on not adding enough resources to add armor, not Miranda herself.  That issue could of been easily avoided, while still keeping that "unique" look for each character, by adding unique armor, when in space or in combat situations.

See I would buy that, if Liara was also given some crappy cat suit or revealing armor. Yet she get's proper armor that is uniuqe and fits her character. They also gave Ash armor(even if they used that stupid blue outfit for the ship) depsite the fact her character redesign in ME3 was ment to be sexy and Tali always wears proper gear. It has nothing to do with resources, it has to do with Bioware sexing things up or plain just not caring.

Modifié par Mr.House, 09 février 2013 - 12:19 .

[dreamgazer]

The original "sex bot".

[humes spork]

Mr.House wrote...

Just because Miranda's sexualization was part of her character does not mean she should go out in a fire fight zone in a cat suit.

No it doesn't, nor does it justify her skirting around vacuum with a tiny little breathing mask. That's on BW's head for exacerbating an already touchy issue. Though, they almost get a pass on this one considering all squadmates' armor appearances are static, save whatever helmet they have during space missions.

Miranda in high heels and a cat suit in combat makes about as much sense as Jacob in a T-shirt and fatigue pants, or Thane and his business suit and overcoat.

[spirosz]

Eterna5 wrote...

How could having face to face conversations and organic relationships not help her grow and understand organics? How does being sorrounded by people all the time help her grow or understand them if they simply consider her as a inhuman computer? There is only so much one can learn from observation, observation only describes events, it does not explain them. 

Was she not having face to face conversations while as an orb?  All the body does is add mobility and that sense of "touch", but could she not "feel" when people walked aboard the Normandy, in the same way as giving a hug to Joker? 

[Masha Potato]

"A little" is really an understatement

[xAmilli0n]

Eterna5 wrote...

By human experience I should have said organic experience. She like all Synthetics want to understand their creators because they already have full understanding of themselves. 

I think thats reasonable, but I think even organics would argue over what that means.  Or that its even wroth experiencing lol.

[spirosz]

dreamgazer wrote...

*snip*
The original "sex bot".

Utopia. 

[Eterna]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
How could having face to face conversations and organic relationships not help her grow and understand organics? How does being sorrounded by people all the time help her grow or understand them if they simply consider her as a inhuman computer? There is only so much one can learn from observation, observation only describes events, it does not explain them. 

She can still have face to "face" conversations.
She had a relationship with Joker before hand.
Traynor and Adams seem to treat her more than "an inhuman computer" even before the body.

Do the face to face conversations matter if the people talking to her simply regard her as a tool?

The relationship was Joker was more one of understanding than actual friendship. Notice how Joker doesn;t consider a serious relationship with her until she recieves her body. 

 They say thank you after she finishes running errands for them and she explains the Normandys system to them....

[spirosz]

Mr.House wrote...

spirosz wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Just because Miranda's sexualization was part of her character does not mean she should go out in a fire fight zone in a cat suit.

That is Bioware's fault on not adding enough resources to add armor, not Miranda herself.  That issue could of been easily avoided, while still keeping that "unique" look for each character, by adding unique armor, when in space or in combat situations.

See I would buy that, if Liara was also given some crappy cat suit or revealing armor. Yet she get's proper armor that is uniuqe and fits her character. They also gave Ash armor(even if they used that stupid blue outfit for the ship) depsite the fact her character redesign in ME3 was ment to be sexy and Tali always wears proper gear. It has nothing to do with resources, it has to do with Bioware sexing things up or plain just not caring.

Well, I still truly believe Bioware only gave Ashley armor because of the fan backlash of her first reveal, or more so made it clear that her skin-tight outfit wasn't her only armor.  I think it's a bit of not caring and wanting to obviously apply more sex appeal to characters, it's even stated in the art book.  

Sex Appeal!

Modifié par spirosz, 09 février 2013 - 12:23 .

[Mr.House]

Eterna5 wrote...


Do the face to face conversations matter if the people talking to her simply regard her as a tool?

The relationship was Joker was more one of understanding than actual friendship. Notice how Joker doesn;t consider a serious relationship with her until she recieves her body. 

 They say thank you after she finishes running errands for them and she explains the Normandys system to them....

Sam was turned on by EDi's voice.... and Adams outright says he grew to like her when Shepard was doing whatever she was doing in the room on Earth.

[Eterna]

spirosz wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

How could having face to face conversations and organic relationships not help her grow and understand organics? How does being sorrounded by people all the time help her grow or understand them if they simply consider her as a inhuman computer? There is only so much one can learn from observation, observation only describes events, it does not explain them. 

Was she not having face to face conversations while as an orb?  All the body does is add mobility and that sense of "touch", but could she not "feel" when people walked aboard the Normandy, in the same way as giving a hug to Joker? 

A hug and walking onto something have completely different significance and meaning. Do you really think EDI could learn the significance of a hug just by people walking on her?

She could observe a hug, but she would not understand the true meaning of a hug until she was placed in an exoerience that warranted one. 

[Mr.House]

spirosz wrote...

Well, I still truly believe only gave Ashley armor because of the fan backlash of her first reveal, or more so made it clear that her skin-tight outfit wasn't her only armor.  I think it's a bit of not caring and wanting to obviously apply more sex appeal to characters, it's even stated in the art book.  

Sex Appeal!

Oh I would not be surprised if the armor was added last minute because of the backlash. Notice in the art book she is not in any type of armor but in diffrent sexy outfits where in Kaidans page he is in diffrent armor types.

[Eterna]

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...


Do the face to face conversations matter if the people talking to her simply regard her as a tool?

The relationship was Joker was more one of understanding than actual friendship. Notice how Joker doesn;t consider a serious relationship with her until she recieves her body. 

 They say thank you after she finishes running errands for them and she explains the Normandys system to them....

Sam was turned on by EDi's voice.... and Adams outright says he grew to like her when Shepard was doing whatever she was doing in the room on Earth.

That doesn't really mean they'd really lose sleep over her being shut off though... 

[The Night Mammoth]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
How could having face to face conversations and organic relationships not help her grow and understand organics? How does being sorrounded by people all the time help her grow or understand them if they simply consider her as a inhuman computer? There is only so much one can learn from observation, observation only describes events, it does not explain them. 

She can still have face to "face" conversations.
She had a relationship with Joker before hand.
Traynor and Adams seem to treat her more than "an inhuman computer" even before the body.

Do the face to face conversations matter if the people talking to her simply regard her as a tool?

No, so it's just as well neither Adams or Traynor think of her like that, or the Cerberus team who creates her, or Joker (eventually) well before she gains a body. 

The relationship was Joker was more one of understanding than actual friendship. Notice how Joker doesn;t consider a serious relationship with her until she recieves her body.

EDI's assets definitely don't have anything to do with it. How very shallow. 

[spirosz]

Eterna5 wrote...
A hug and walking onto something have completely different significance and meaning. Do you really think EDI could learn the significance of a hug just by people walking on her?

She could observe a hug, but she would not understand the true meaning of a hug until she was placed in an exoerience that warranted one. 

That's true.  I guess, back to the topic at hand of sexual appeal, I still think that her body is a form of sex appeal and that it could of been avoided, if EDI was in another body.