169 réponses à ce sujet

[metaempiricist]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Distilled Poison wrote...

thatdamnlobster wrote...

methinks this is the first mp game you really played

I could throw a controller at my game library and not hit a game with as many bugs as ME3. Which is a bit of a feat considering I have 112 games in my trophy list. And that's only the games I've owned on PS3.

I don't like quoting Bryan with such a negative post right after he got back. He was unfairly dogpiled before, but I just wanted to address the statement. Most games don't get a year of support because they don't need it.

Yah you may feel there is a lot of bugs in the game, I am not going to deny that there are bugs in the game, I have never done so.

Support for bug fixing and additional content support are 2 different things. So much so that these typically fall under 2 different project teams. Regardless it isn't very often a game does see a year of support (of either) and even rarer that the support is revolved around fresh content.

We have done 30 weekend operations, spanning almost a year. Some studios would treat each one of those kinds of things as a significant marketing event and run maybe 5.

don't listen to them Bryan, This is multiplayer masterwork and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

llandwynwyn wrote...

People were singing its death even before ME3 was released.

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The post-launch
content really isn't free though.  It's effectively subsidized by people
paying for microtransactions.  BioWare never would have made all this
"free" content if they weren't taking in revenue from the store.  They
might have launched one free MP DLC, but certainly not four of them. 

It doesn't matter. People paying money were doing so to buy packs, no dlc. The dlcs were free for all of us.

I still don't think you get it.  The dlcs weren't "free for all of us."  Please have some understanding of how this business model generates revenue before you dismiss what I write.

Rolenka wrote...

The difference between some other game
getting a year of support and this game is that this game's new content
continues to generate profit. As long as that's the case, the support
will continue.

That's exactly right.  If this game did not generate the revenue it did, the support in all likelihood would have ended a long time ago.  Probably a couple of months after the first DLC would have been the end of it.

And there's nothing wrong with that either, btw.  But people are being incredibly naive if they think EA/BioWare is pushing out new content simply because they're such kind and generous people.

Modifié par CmnDwnWrkn, 09 février 2013 - 01:38 .

[Bryan Johnson]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still don't think you get it.  The dlcs weren't "free for all of us."  Please have some understanding of how this business model generates revenue before you dismiss what I write.

Well you are using a fairly rigid definition of free. You are saying it is not free because overall it isn't a net free action.

However society has found it acceptable to deem something free, if an individual does not require to pay. An example with our own industry is free-to-play, it is not free by your definition but it is free to the individual. 

Another example is if someone is giving you a free arm chair, it is not a free based action because they had to pay for it at some point.

[staindgrey]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Let's be frank for a moment here, most games do not get support for a year. Who knows when we will be done.

Yeah, even Gears 3 didn't get a full year of support. They gave up after about 6 months.

Kudos, devs. ME3's MP has far and away surpassed my expectations.


Thank you. 

[Tonymac]

staindgrey wrote...

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Let's be frank for a moment here, most games do not get support for a year. Who knows when we will be done.

Yeah, even Gears 3 didn't get a full year of support. They gave up after about 6 months.

Kudos, devs. ME3's MP has far and away surpassed my expectations.


Thank you. 

^  QFT, and seconded!

[CmnDwnWrkn]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still don't think you get it.  The dlcs weren't "free for all of us."  Please have some understanding of how this business model generates revenue before you dismiss what I write.

Well you are using a fairly rigid definition of free. You are saying it is not free because overall it isn't a net free action.

However society has found it acceptable to deem something free, if an individual does not require to pay. An example with our own industry is free-to-play, it is not free by your definition but it is free to the individual. 

Another example is if someone is giving you a free arm chair, it is not a free based action because they had to pay for it at some point.

That's true.  Nobody was required to pay for the DLC.  It was made available for free, and people have the option to pay for packs if they choose to do so.  My only point is that this game, or any other game that follows a similar model, likely wouldn't have received the level of support it did for so long if people weren't buying packs in the store.

Overall, this game has been incredible, despite my gripes with it over the past few months.  I've really enjoyed the whole series, and to me it was worth it to buy packs in the store not just for the packs but also to support BioWare.

[nicethugbert]

Anybody who say that ME3 gets a lot of support has not heard of Neverwinter Nights. Please google it.

[Homey C-Dawg]

nicethugbert wrote...

Anybody who say that ME3 gets a lot of support has not heard of Neverwinter Nights. Please google it.

That's not really a point tbh. The fact that there are examples in existence of something being more supported than ME3MP does not change the fact that ME3MP has gotten a helluvalot of support.

[llandwynwyn]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

I still don't think you get it.  The dlcs weren't "free for all of us."  Please have some understanding of how this business model generates revenue before you dismiss what I write.

I think you're the one that don't get it. Players can pay real money to buy packs, if they want -> the profit is used to create free dlc to all players that may or not buy pack with their money. A lucrative method for them, yes.

Money doesn't grow on trees, so EA wouldn't pay their employers to create new content if they couldn't profit in some way, after all, they're not insane. But they didn't charge money for the dlc.

[GriM_AoD]

HorriblePlajer wrote...

Being thinking, with all those current replies from BW devs, saying that changes on X and Y aren't possible because total cost of doing it is too high, too many changes etc etc. With the DA3 on horizon I do think that ME3 will stay as-is, no more MP dlc.

I presume that all menpower and money goes for other projects.

[aeryk117]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote:
That's true.  Nobody was required to pay for the DLC.  It was made available for free, and people have the option to pay for packs if they choose to do so.  My only point is that this game, or any other game that follows a similar model, likely wouldn't have received the level of support it did for so long if people weren't buying packs in the store.

Overall, this game has been incredible, despite my gripes with it over the past few months.  I've really enjoyed the whole series, and to me it was worth it to buy packs in the store not just for the packs but also to support BioWare.

Personally, I want BioWare to make money on ME3.  Financial success means more DLC, continued development of ME4, jobs for Brian, Chris, Eric, Derek, NP & the rest, and a bright future for ME.  I want all of these things.

I love this game and agree that it has been an incredible ride.  Two aspects that I think are truly brilliant are: 1) the mechanics of balance changes without requiring a patch and 2) the business model supporting mp.

By providing mp DLC "for free," BioWare has been able to add mp content without fracturing the player base with each DLC add.  Everyone who plays online can download Retaliation and play without spending anything - this is a huge gift to the player base.  The micro transaction model has enabled them to do so and still have it make financial sense.

[MP-Ryan]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

 Regardless it isn't very often a game does see a year of support (of either) and even rarer that the support is revolved around fresh content.

Bryan, I have a lot of respect for you and the other BioWare staff, but this just isn't true in multiplayer.  I've been playing shooter-type MP games since Rainbow Six in 1999 and through dozens of other titles (nevermind Wacraft and the original C&C Red Alert), and not only are most MP games significantly less buggy than ME3MP, they have gotten quite a bit more support on the bugfixing end too.  I agree that most don't get significant content updates.  If we look at the industry's best multiplayer developer - Valve by leaps and bounds - bugs are often fixed the day they are found or shortly thereafter, and they've introduced new content on larger scales and more frequently than ME3MP.

I've always <3ed BioWare, but you guys are pretty new to the multiplayer realm and it really does show.  Waiting months for major gamebreaking bugs to be fixed just isn't acceptable in this realm.  You've been fortunate that ME3MP is addictive as hell and was tied to a singleplayer release, but had this been released standalone it would have been dead a long time ago.  I sincerely hope that any future Mass Effect MP titles see significantly more support, particularly on the development and bugfixing end, than this one.

Modifié par MP-Ryan, 09 février 2013 - 03:38 .

[LegionofRannoch]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Let's be frank for a moment here, most games do not get support for a year. Who knows when we will be done.

To be honest, im extremely glad that this game recieved the FREE... DLC it gave us. most games, if any, do not get Free DLC at all.
This is why i love Bioware. 
Thanks for all effort in keeping this game fresh and new with the free DLC and weekly/bi-weekly balance changes.

[aeryk117]

nicethugbert wrote...

Anybody who say that ME3 gets a lot of support has not heard of Neverwinter Nights. Please google it.

I love NWN & NWN2.   I agree that NWN had amazing support.

But, where's NWN3?

I personally have been impressed by the support provided ME3 by BioWare.  My hope is that they are able to do so in a sustainable way that makes financial sense for the future of BioWare and ME.

[Darthvero]

Bhatair wrote...

I assume most of the creative talent has moved on to other projects, yes. The team behind the MP (and the SP DLC) is the one that was assigned to work on ME4, and with a new console generation on the horizon and an all new engine to work with I'd imagine they have their work cut out for them.

I wouldn't expect too much beyond normal balance changes for ME3 MP in the neat future. Maybe one last DLC. TO be honest I'm surprised its had as much staying power as it has had. ME3 's MP was one of my biggest surprises of 2012.

[Bleachrude]

Mp-Ryan, that's because most MP gams are PC only...It costs Valve nothing to update a game anytime they find a bug...

Sony and MS charge EA/Bioware 40k for each patch....We've had 5 patches for each console I believe, the first patch both Sony and MS give for free...which means that Bioware/EA has had to spend $320K

(Anyone want to double check my math...pretty sure I'm right though).

That's not paying the actual people doing the testing/coding..that's just pure money they had to give Sony/MS.

[Sundance31us]

dreman9999 wrote...

Distilled Poison wrote...

Most games also don't launch with the number of bugs ME3 did.

You're kinding right?

I seem to remember Skyrim had quite a few.

[Bleachrude]

Sundance31us wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Distilled Poison wrote...

Most games also don't launch with the number of bugs ME3 did.

You're kinding right?

I seem to remember Skyrim had quite a few.

Heh...Ps3 owners IIRC couldn't even play the game...what is it about the Ps3 that makes so many games roll over and play dead?

[Pyth the Bull]

nicethugbert wrote...

Anybody who say that ME3 gets a lot of support has not heard of Neverwinter Nights. Please google it.

That's the old BioWare.

The new BioEA uses hair gel and high fives themselves in the mirror.

[Kinom001]

Actually, I think this has been one of the best supported and updated games I've ever seen. The fact that these guys are continually working on it and interacting with the community is amazing, something to be grateful for.

[Gh0strang3r]

I agree with some of the guys about the bugs and such, but I still think this is a great game. So, instead of being negative and compare to past games I'll just say thanks to BroJo and the guys.

This has been a very fun game and well worth the money invested.

[LeandroBraz]

Distilled Poison wrote...

thatdamnlobster wrote...

methinks this is the first mp game you really played

I could throw a controller at my game library and not hit a game with as many bugs as ME3. Which is a bit of a feat considering I have 112 games in my trophy list. And that's only the games I've owned on PS3.

I don't like quoting Bryan with such a negative post right after he got back. He was unfairly dogpiled before, but I just wanted to address the statement. Most games don't get a year of support because they don't need it.

I could throw a controller at my game library and don't hit any game at all, since they are all digital.. I would need a new monitor though... damn, I just realise I don't even have a controller to throw in the first place..


 anyway, you clearly don't have any Bethesda game, our you got TES and fallout out of your library, didn't you?

[LeandroBraz]

For a MP that nobody believed it would work, I think ME3 is doing just fine, actually it''s awesome, a lot better than I hoped for. I know there's bugs in the game, but really, the only thing that still annoying me is disconnection, and it got better two weeks ago, I have no idea why. All the other bugs, I don't even remember they exist.

Right now, I prefer to enjoy what Bioware accomplished and hope for a better MP on ME4, which I have hig faith they will deliver...

[Euric]

Bryan Johnson wrote...

Let's be frank for a moment here, most games do not get support for a year. Who knows when we will be done.

This^^.

[nicethugbert]

aeryk117 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Anybody who say that ME3 gets a lot of support has not heard of Neverwinter Nights. Please google it.

I love NWN & NWN2.   I agree that NWN had amazing support.

But, where's NWN3?

I personally have been impressed by the support provided ME3 by BioWare.  My hope is that they are able to do so in a sustainable way that makes financial sense for the future of BioWare and ME.

How can you compare ME3's 5(?) patches versus NWN's 24 patches?  How is 5 impressive when 24 is amazing? 

NWN3 was smothered by the collective nonsense of WotC, Atari, and Hasbro.  In it's place we will have Neverwinter Online which is no longer an Atari project.  Perfect World and Cryptic are making it and it looks to be turning out very well.  It will not have PWs.  But it will have a toolset and will be free to play.

There is also SUI Generis on kickstarter.

As far as I know, neither NWN 1 or 2 failed to make money.  What happened is that game companies suspected that they could make more money some other way, mainly by dumping MP and/or toolset, and prioritizng consoles, and producing less content.  DA series has a toolset and no MP.  ME series has no toolset and now has MP.  There are lots of MMOs making money.  The Witcher2 is coming out with a free dev kit and that game is close to 2 years old.  Skyrim has a mod kit and an open world with tons of content.  It's over a year old and it's still producing expansions and it still costs $60.  ME3 is almost a year old and it costs $20 now, not $60 as it did upon release.

The reasons why games fail to make money are not because it costs money to make toolsets and MP and open worlds and content.  It's because game companies make bad decissions.