24 réponses à ce sujet

[TARITARI]

What a disappointment in an otherwise enjoyable game!

Played all the way through to almost the end and finally got to the part where Kaiden finally tells the commander how he feels.    At least I think it was him talking because all I could see was the back of his head the whole time!    I am playing femshep because I am a girl!    I don't want to look at me while he finally comes out with it!   If they only had enough money for one scene why could it not have featured the face of BOTH of the people involved in the conversation?

I expected that camera angles would not favor the feminine viewer.  (And of course, the sex scene didn't.) That was a no-brainer given the general lack of choice or anything aproaching equal romance options but  up to that point we pretty much got to look at the face of the person speaking!   I did not expect a huge change in direction like that.    I was really looking forward to that scene and now I am wondering if I should buy the rest of the series like I was planning to.  'cause


Can anybody tell me if the rest of the love scenes in the series are written so purely from a masculine taste point of view?

[radishson]

I remember watching this scene a while ago and never noticing anything weird, but... I just watched it over again and I know what you mean about the back of his head! Odd. I don't understand the "masculine point of view", though. My female Shepard romanced Liara and it seems femshep takes her place in the Kaidan LI animations, but other than that it seems fine.

Anyways, I've not yet played ME2 or ME3 but I'veheard that Female heterosexual romances get shafted in the following games. Less options and less development than hetero Male Sheps get, apparently. But consider what a small portion romance actually plays - it's maybe 10 minutes of extra context per game, max. Defeating the Reapers is way more important than getting it on with crew mates!

[TARITARI]

Well.. Different strokes but I can't agree with the last statement :-)  if it was real life it would probably be more important.  (I don't want to be reaped any more than anybody else does:-)

 But it's a game and really, the important  thing is to entertain.  These games, appeal to lots of different people and not all of us are getting a fair shake.    I like stopping the Reapers and the romance and there is plenty of room for both and the game contains both.     I wasn't expecting a lot of  "getting it on with crewmates" or even equal choices  since I am a girl and I know what I want is not something game designers are going to lose any sleep over but I was looking forward to that scene and I (naively as it turns out) thought that they wouldn't couldn't  mess it up TOO much... Right?

I didn't know or realize they would go out of their WAY to mess it up.

I can explain what I mean by masculine point of view.  A masculinely focused watcher of that scene is probably more likely in that situation to want to watch the woman's body and the woman's face.  Probably in that order.  Someone like me mostly wants to watch the man's face.. although a look at his body is entertaining too.    In this scene the bulk of the time we were exclusively watching HER face as he spoke and during the brief love scene we (as unfortunately, expected.) saw a lot of her and very little of him.. (although what little we got was nice because at least it seemed he was being distracted from his headaches

None of that was a problem except the very disappointing focus on only showing HER face while he was speaking the most intense lines he has in the whole game!
  The direction of the whole scene camera- wise, was very poor, shoddilly done and couldn't have been written by anybody but a male for males with little thought for anyone else.  And it was a sudden departure from the rest of the game where the camera was on the speaker so I have to assume it was deliberately crafted that way.   I just went to You tube and watched the same romance scene with Male Shepard and Ashley and it was ENTIRELY different.  The camera was always on HER face as she was speaking and was superbly directed, much longer and lovingly crafted. That is what I am objecting to!

They didn't even get the sound right.   At one point it was obvious that they tossed in an abrupt extra line recorded at a different time and didn't even bother to get the sound level or voice modulation and tone anywhere near what was said before.   The effect is jarring.

I realize this is an old game I am playing.. and that these games have a long way to go even now before they will be fair to everybody who plays them.   But what I am hoping that this situation improved at least a little over the subsequent releases.

I want to know if this rather aggregious difference in quality (depending on your orientation) continues in the other games and I would like to know without watching them ahead of time on youtube (and spoiling the fun) or buying the games and potentially being so  disappointed and saddened  as I was by this one.  Which is why I asked.        I wasn't asking for any more content.   Just a reasonable expectation that the content I was getting was crafted with equal quality and attention.   If that is asking too much then something is wrong.

[ViciousCargo]

I'm not a girl gamer so maybe you'll dismiss my answer off the bat, but I get your complaint over Kaidan's love scene. It was awkwardly done, absolutely poor viewpoint. To answer your question if this continues in the next couple games, I can tell you that it doesn't in ME2 (I refuse to play ME3).  Each love scene is different. My femshep has romanced Garrus and Thane, and the viewpoint is more balanced. Same with Jacob, but I saw that on Youtube

Modifié par ViciousCargo, 12 février 2013 - 05:15 .

[TARITARI]

Far from dismissing it I THANK you! I probably should have said femshep gamers.. but at least typically the male femshep players seem to tend to romance the female alien. (I myself when I RP can and do take any sex and orientation. I don't tend to replay games so this was likely my one and only play through so I took my own)

Thanks again for the answer, I can go ahead and buy ME2 and give it a try. With my enjoyment focused on the romantic moments of the game I didn't want to slog through all of the hours of mayhem again.. (some of which got pretty repetitive) only to watch the face of my own character again when I got to the moments I enjoy best. Jury is still out on whether I want to risk getting a cold, hard soul-stomping by ME3. I don't blame you for not doing it. I probably shouldn't (and may not.)

[Sir George Parr]

With regards to ME3 its probably best to hold on a bit longer and see what the final DLC has to offer before making a purchase, If it still leaves me wanting anti-depressants by the end i know it won't be for me.But if you go into ME2 pick Garrus for Female Shepard as he is as good as it gets.

[TARITARI]

Good idea. Thanks! I will hold off buying ME3 till that DLC comes out. Is there any ETA for that? What is it called? Is there much hope that this will finally really make the ending tolerable or do you think they are they just going to disappoint again?
(Reminds me of the movie "Mars Attacks" where the martians keep saying "Don't run.. we are your friends!".. and then vaporizing people and they keep falling for it.

I will probably stick with Alenko this time. After hearing the voice actor's recording of the letter he sends you in ME2 I'd feel too bad jilting him. That was beautiful and well acted. Too bad they did not put that in the game!

Modifié par TARITARI, 13 février 2013 - 03:57 .

[Sir George Parr]

Expected sometime in march.if it adds something useful to the ending like clarity of shepard's fate in the destroy ending,which is the closest I get to the ending I want for my female shepard then its something I will buy with out it,I have no reason to buy and can just trade in the games.so yeah I hope it makes the sp something that I can revisit as once you have done me3 you really don't won't to do it again as you have nothing to look forward to at the end even with the ec.

[ViciousCargo]

I'm not investing in ME3 until they have where Shepard wins out. Period. No comprimises, just total victory. That's why we play video games. To win. And I want my Sheps to end up with who they have devoted themselves to whether it be Garrus, Tali, Liara, etc. This idea of a tragedy does not suit me one bit.

[TARITARI]

I hear that!
The reason the first one is so good for me is that it is Space Opera. Like the first Star Wars. The people who wanted it to end up dark and deep and as tragic and unfair as real life is.. well. To me, that isn't entertainment.. That is the nightly news.

"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. Because they were holding on to something... There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for.
Sam, Lord of the Rings"

I haven't played the end and may never do so, but from what I have read they did not have that shadow pass or the sun shine out the clearer.. and they should have. At least it should have been an option from the choices you made after devoting so many hours of your life to a game where you were promised different outcomes from the choices you made.   ( Devistating, worse and soul-crushing are most of the descriptions of I am hearing. Not my idea of much of a choice of outcomes.)

Modifié par TARITARI, 13 février 2013 - 07:00 .

[Sir George Parr]

But after Alenko, in any future plays of ME2 give Garrus a try.

[ViciousCargo]

TARITARI wrote...

I hear that!
The reason the first one is so good for me is that it is Space Opera. Like the first Star Wars. The people who wanted it to end up dark and deep and as tragic and unfair as real life is.. well. To me, that isn't entertainment.. That is the nightly news.

"It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn't. Because they were holding on to something... There's some good in this world, Mr. Frodo. And it's worth fighting for.
Sam, Lord of the Rings"

I haven't played the end and may never do so, but from what I have read they did not have that shadow pass or the sun shine out the clearer.. and they should have. At least it should have been an option from the choices you made after devoting so many hours of your life to a game where you were promised different outcomes from the choices you made.   ( Devistating, worse and soul-crushing are most of the descriptions of I am hearing. Not my idea of much of a choice of outcomes.)

Makers of Mass Effect need to take a look at the greatest games, movies of all times.  Do they end like real life?  No.  Star Wars, LOTR, Harry Potter, Mario Bros, early RPGs. (OK, maybe not the best example, but you can't deny their appeal), all end happily...well, mostly.  It's not about making it like real life.  Like you said: tune in to nightly news or pick up a newspaper if you're an addict to real life.  Games are fantasy.  Want to make them realistic?  Fine.  But I still want to win.  I want the girl (Tali) in the end, I want to stomp on the reapers as they burn across the galaxy, and feel as if my Shepard actually accomplished something.  Because according to everything I've read, what you do in ME1 and ME2 is moot in ME3.  Nothing matters.  It doesn't matter if you saved the Rachni Queen or the Council.  Doesn't matter if you cure the genophage or find peace between the quarians and geth.  It doesn't matter.  Shepard dies, reapers win or mess up the galaxy pretty horribly (in the least), and the series is over. 

Sorry to rant.  I guess I'm off topic.  I'll stop now.....

Modifié par ViciousCargo, 14 février 2013 - 12:46 .

[PsiFive]

Star Wars: evil dad maims his son, eventually redeems himself but then dies. Harry Potter: protagonist loses both parents, then in adolescence also loses godfather, several mentors he was hugely fond of, and one of his bestie's brothers. Lord of the Rings: Boromir dead, Denethor mad and then dead, King Theoden mad and old but then sane and healthy... and then dead, elves and Gandalf all leave for the West taking Frodo with them because he's got the magic version of PTSD.

Plenty of tragedy in those, but when the story makes sense and overall the good guys win it's okay. And really all of those have either the protagonist or someone close to him making a similar kind of sacrifice to Shepard in the end. When the story is mad and favourite characters die for no good reason to end up with the hero sacrificing their life because space magic needs it to work isn't very satisfying. Nothing wrong with fictional tragedy done well, it's just that ME hasn't done it well.

[TARITARI]

For me.. I USUALLY think there is too much tragedy. I could have lived with Frodo going back to the Shire and getting better, (At least the movie skipped the Scouring of the Shire.) Harry Potter not ending up with so many casualties, and as far as Star Wars is concerned I stopped really enjoying it after the first movie.
But as you say.. Tragedy that worked in varying degrees. When people who really aren't up to it try to make a story like that it just seems to end up a senseless bloodbath. Like real life. Not like a good story.
I haven't played it and may never.. depending on how that DLC turns out.. but so many people were wounded.. Good sense says don't even go there.

[ViciousCargo]

Tragedy is part of most stories, even fairy tales. Not debating that. My argument is that all the stories I mentioned ended with protagonists coming out on top (even with tragedy and heart-ache) not on the bottom. Those are the most celebrated stories and have the widest appeal to audiences everywhere.

Modifié par ViciousCargo, 14 février 2013 - 03:42 .

[Halcyon Lavellan]

I actually think that the Destory with Extended Cut (3100+ EMS) ending is fine. Sure, I would *like* a more explicit denoument but really it's pretty obvious that's a happy one (as it gets given what has to happen to facilitate). It's nice to have a "they lived happily ever after" acted on screen but given the evidence (especially relative to other endings) you can pretty much fill in the blanks. If this was a movie you'd get something very similar I would think.

That said though, I would definitely play ME3 even for the journey there - the ending was probably the weakest part, sure but the rest of the game is amazing, and the Shenko arc is just so beautiful. You're only cutting your nose off to spite your face by missing out on more Kaidan, imho! 

Modifié par pashionsydney, 15 février 2013 - 01:47 .

[thisisme8]

I won't get into the endings, but ME3 in general has the best writing, music, and mood of all 3 games. Especially the writing.

Seeing the end of the Geth/Quarian war, the resolution of the Genophage, going up against all odds. It was fantastic.

Now, I said I wouldn't give my opinion on the endings, but my opinion on the reaction people gave to the endings was a bit dramatic. It's weird because I was fine filling in the blanks left by the original endings, then the EC came out and I enjoyed the epilogue monologues. I dunno. I've been in and seen war first-hand - maybe that's why I was ok with the themes presented in the end. Sometimes the good guys win, but sometimes victory has a price.

[PsiFive]

Then I won't try to wreck your enjoyment of it by pointing out all that's wrong with the genophage resolution and the geth/quarian war. It's enough to say that I think both are examples of where people's feelings about the endings and the last scenes of a couple of much loved characters, which admittedly were well written *scenes*, has led many to overlook the huge faults with the overall plot itself. Lovely tree, shame the rest of the forest is on fire.it

Mood is rather subjective but since I've spent a large portion of my single incomplete playthrough laughing when I'm not supposed to I've not really noticed that it has much. We're clearly getting very different game experiences. The characters give across some sense of pessimism yet determination, but that's about all. I'll give you that it has good music, but that really has nothing to do with the story and its internal inconsistencies. I'd also have to point out that it reused plenty of ME2 music.

[ViciousCargo]

thisisme8 wrote...

I won't get into the endings, but ME3 in general has the best writing, music, and mood of all 3 games. Especially the writing.

Seeing the end of the Geth/Quarian war, the resolution of the Genophage, going up against all odds. It was fantastic.

Now, I said I wouldn't give my opinion on the endings, but my opinion on the reaction people gave to the endings was a bit dramatic. It's weird because I was fine filling in the blanks left by the original endings, then the EC came out and I enjoyed the epilogue monologues. I dunno. I've been in and seen war first-hand - maybe that's why I was ok with the themes presented in the end. Sometimes the good guys win, but sometimes victory has a price.

The best writing? Seriously.  Wow.  I'm speechless.....

I guess we're all entitled to our opinions....

[thisisme8]

When I was young, I felt like every little thing needed to please me and my impossible standards.  As I get a bit older, I just enjoy a good bit of sci-fi with a little action and drama thrown in.

I feel like people today have a similar attitude as I did when I was young, but it's a bit more severe.  I feel bad for all the kids that can't just enjoy a bit of fiction without it offending them on so many levels.

Look at the original Star Wars.  If those 3 movies were released today they would receive scathing reviews from every self-titled internet critic out there for terrible dialogue and massive plot holes with appalling acting throughout.  But back then, we just enjoyed being taken for a ride in space for a little while.

Same concept here.  Forums give us a medium to talk directly to the developers and each other in a way previously impossible.  That medium also puts the developers out in the spotlight while we're safe behind the anonymity of our computers.  We're fast to point out every little thing they did wrong - hell, we go out of our way to look for things to point out - meanwhile, some of us just enjoyed a good 20 hours of flying through space with alien friends and evil robot space ships.

Say what you will - but I can see past ME being imperfect since it was one of the funnest romps through the galaxy since Cowboy Bebop.  I'm willing to say that it even stands out as proof that video games are a legitimate platform for great storytelling .

[ViciousCargo]

thisisme8 wrote...

When I was young, I felt like every little thing needed to please me and my impossible standards.  As I get a bit older, I just enjoy a good bit of sci-fi with a little action and drama thrown in.

I feel like people today have a similar attitude as I did when I was young, but it's a bit more severe.  I feel bad for all the kids that can't just enjoy a bit of fiction without it offending them on so many levels.

Look at the original Star Wars.  If those 3 movies were released today they would receive scathing reviews from every self-titled internet critic out there for terrible dialogue and massive plot holes with appalling acting throughout.  But back then, we just enjoyed being taken for a ride in space for a little while.

Same concept here.  Forums give us a medium to talk directly to the developers and each other in a way previously impossible.  That medium also puts the developers out in the spotlight while we're safe behind the anonymity of our computers.  We're fast to point out every little thing they did wrong - hell, we go out of our way to look for things to point out - meanwhile, some of us just enjoyed a good 20 hours of flying through space with alien friends and evil robot space ships.

Say what you will - but I can see past ME being imperfect since it was one of the funnest romps through the galaxy since Cowboy Bebop.  I'm willing to say that it even stands out as proof that video games are a legitimate platform for great storytelling .

Um, yeah, so about Kaidan's head being in the way....

[thisisme8]

ViciousCargo wrote...



Um, yeah, so about Kaidan's head being in the way....

Kids these days.  You're so clever.

Anyway, there's a whole behind the scenes video on the advances they made in the "cinematagrophy" between ME1 and 2 and how they are able to have better camera angles during scenes much like the ones you describe, so to answer your question:  Yes, it gets better.

[ViciousCargo]

thisisme8 wrote...

ViciousCargo wrote...



Um, yeah, so about Kaidan's head being in the way....

Kids these days.  You're so clever.

Anyway, there's a whole behind the scenes video on the advances they made in the "cinematagrophy" between ME1 and 2 and how they are able to have better camera angles during scenes much like the ones you describe, so to answer your question:  Yes, it gets better.

BTW, it's "cinematography."
Kids these days....

[thisisme8]

ViciousCargo wrote...

BTW, it's "cinematography."
Kids these days....

You prove my point.  I apologize if I spell a word incorrectly, I'm still human.

[ViciousCargo]

thisisme8 wrote...

ViciousCargo wrote...

BTW, it's "cinematography."
Kids these days....

You prove my point.  I apologize if I spell a word incorrectly, I'm still human.

You're human???    This changes everything....

Modifié par ViciousCargo, 19 février 2013 - 07:31 .