588 réponses à ce sujet

[robertthebard]

What I took away from the article:  Not enough gratuitous nudity.

From the article:

claiming to be for adults and then cutting away to people having sex in their underpants 

You know, I've read the same comments here, probably thousands of times.  This is certainly a refreshing viewpoint.  Oh, wait...

No Light/Dark Side Counter. Childish. Boring. Any system where you can commit atrocities and make up for it by handing over a few presents is a system in sore need of being ripped out and replaced with something more effective where deeds rather than integers are what counts

I thought this had been pretty effectively dealt with in DA 2.  I have yet to see a Feast Day gifts/pranks pack.  Did I miss some DLC?  It seems to me that if you didn't follow certain conditions in a certain quest, a certain party member wouldn't be available for Act III, regardless of whether they were romanced or not, just off the top of my head.

So, in short, what I took away from the article is a professional writer that wants to see certain things, and that that certain writer could have pulled every single point in his article from these very forums.  Just a point to order, but I can publish an OpEd piece just as easily.  There is no prerequisite that you be a trained writer, or have a job as a journalist to do so.  There was nothing fresh, new, or innovative about the piece, it's just a lot of what may as well be copy/pasting from BSN.  Especially since it wouldn't take a lot of work, although it may take some time, to find snippets from the article posted here years before it was written.

This is, of course, my opinion, and as with all opinions, it probably stinks.  Kudos for all the hits it probably generated though, if that's the ultimate goal.  It even got me to give it a read.

[imbs]

Conduit0 wrote...

AmstradHero, let me give you a piece of advice, just give up. Nothing you do or say will ever convince him. You could create a mod that completely replaces DAO's conversation system with a wheel, record every conversation in the game using the wheel and then post the resulting video on youtube for him to view and he would still find some BS excuse to tell you, you're wrong. DA2 haters live in their own special little world where they're always right and anyone who disagrees with them is always wrong, no matter how much evidence is presented.

utterly 0 self awareness.

[Kidd]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I don't have a problem with Investigate dialogue (that is, dialogue that does not move the conversation forward and provides contextual information) but it is different if it is clearly labeled.

If I know three of my six responses will be nothing but data dump, it lets you drop your attention and sit passively for the dialogue in question.

For what it's worth, there's been situations where we weren't allowed to ask all the questions we wanted, or where asking a question would force the dialogue further ahead. It's pretty rare though. I can only think of a dialogue with Liara in ME2 off the top of my head, after you finish her Ilium quest line.

[Imrahil_]

Structurally, the conversations in DA2 are done the same way as DAO. Given DAO had a response restriction of 5 lines

The Lloyd conversation in this thread, at about 0:54, shows 6 responses, so... you were saying?  Presented again:



Oh, Allan, that's 2 mistakes you didn't research, one with a link in this very thread, which you obviously never clicked on! Why aren't you concerned about your credibility? (still kidding, just, well, come on, that was too easy) 


PS: Allan, I am a fan of your frankness & willingness to discuss things.  I'm just ribbing you.  I hope you take it in stride, but also, a little serious, I guess?

[AmstradHero]

Imrahil_ wrote...

Structurally, the conversations in DA2 are done the same way as DAO. Given DAO had a response restriction of 5 lines

The Lloyd conversation in this thread, at about 0:54, shows 6 responses, so... you were saying?  Presented again:



Oh, Allan, that's 2 mistakes you didn't research, one with a link in this very thread, which you obviously never clicked on! Why aren't you concerned about your credibility? (still kidding, just, well, come on, that was too easy) 

Imrahil_: You stated that it was impossible to translate the dialogue list into the wheel. You said it couldn't be done. I proved that it could be done... twice. Then you changed your argument to something different. Would you care to refute this? Or aren't you concerned about your credibility?

Modifié par AmstradHero, 23 février 2013 - 04:06 .

[Kidd]

Imrahil_ wrote...

The Lloyd conversation in this thread, at about 0:54, shows 6 responses, so... you were saying?  Presented again:



Oh, Allan, that's 2 mistakes you didn't research, one with a link in this very thread, which you obviously never clicked on! Why aren't you concerned about your credibility? (still kidding, just, well, come on, that was too easy) 

Six options on the menu, yes. One being an awkward "let's talk about something else" to lead to another subsequent information hub, the other ending the conversation.



Chances are, had DAO had a higher limitation like DA2, the conversation may have been structured differently to allow that "I had other questions" to not exist. There's room for three more questions on the wheel I made above without breaking design conventions after all.


EDIT: Ack, I just realised you don't have any ME games registered. Commander Shepard says "I should go" all the time, hence the attempt at being funny~~

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 23 février 2013 - 08:22 .

[Imrahil_]

AmstradHero wrote...
Imrahil_: You stated that it was impossible to translate the dialogue list into the wheel. You said it couldn't be done. I proved that it could be done... twice. Then you changed your argument to something different. Would you care to refute this? Or aren't you concerned about your credibility?

I acknowledge you tried.  I acknowledge you failed... twice.  You moved several important dialogues off into "Investigate", like they didn't matter.  Because to you, they don't matter.  You apparently want to get through every dialogue as quickly as possible.  You don't need for your Character to have choices.  You don't even need for your different Characters to have different personalities.

You just need to click through to the resolution you want to happen.  You like being railroaded into a resolution you decided to arrive at ahead of time. You have no idea what it means to have a Character who has nuances, dilemmas, maybe a crisis of faith.

You have convinced me that you want a black & white resolution to every encounter.  I know this.  You know how I know this?  Because I downloaded & played Alley of Murders.  Long ago.  I just now realized you are the guy that created that amateurish dung.  My apologies.  I should have noticed that long before now.

Look, I'll ignore your shoddy voices, I'm not even gonna concern myself with how every character sounds like they are under water.  And hey, I understand that you are willing to excuse recycled areas, because you recycled areas.  Copy-Pasted, even.

But you railroaded the player into the whole encounter, I mean you couldn't even have real discussion with, what'shisface, the dwarf, he was so unmemorable I forgot him.  I remember I tried talking to his minions, but they had no dialogue.  I understand why you like characters that can be conversed with using 1-2 dialogue options, because your characters had 1-2 dialogue options.

Plus, you "designed" a dungeon crawl where you meet Arcane Horrors & some Shades for no reason, with little to no backstory.  No wonder you don't care about the story.  You prefer that to be optional. You made a dungeon crawl with no story (EDIT: well, except for: A Wizard Did It!).

I liked how Osyn... Olsen, Osen?  I'm not sure he wasn't memorable.. the ultimate Big Bad, had almost no dialogue & was like "I kill you" or else maybe "I'mma go die!"  But, he still exited stage left, regardless, never to be heard from again.  Weak.  Anyway, to our discussion, I'd like to see you re-write the Galmar & what'shername dialogues in a Wheel & make it interesting.  How does an elf become a Templar?  Oh, nevermind, it's all in Investigate.  I no longer care.  It was boring as a tree, too.

I think I understand why you like the Wheel.  You write terrible dialogue & the Wheel facilitates terrible dialogue. I wanna be a Dragon! I wanna hunt down a Blood Mage! Raaaar!

No nuance.  No room for "I don't want to hunt down a Blood Mage, because I am a Blood Mage."  No room for "maybe I wanna side with these Dwarf-led people!"  Where's "I'm not sure this is the right thing to do."?  It fits your style.  It took me too long to realize you were that guy, who wrote that terrible MOD.  My mistake.  That's on me, really.  I apolgize for not realizing before now.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 23 février 2013 - 09:04 .

[AmstradHero]

Imrahil_ wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
Imrahil_: You stated that it was impossible to translate the dialogue list into the wheel. You said it couldn't be done. I proved that it could be done... twice. Then you changed your argument to something different. Would you care to refute this? Or aren't you concerned about your credibility?

I acknowledge you tried.  I acknowledge you failed.  You moved several important dialogues off into "Investigate", like they didn't matter.  Because to you, they don't matter.  You apparently want to get through every dialogue as quickly as possible.  You don't need for your Character to have choices.  You don't even need for your different Characters to have different personalities.

You just need to click through to the resolution you want to happen.  You like being railroaded into a resolution you decided to arrive at ahead of time. You have no idea what it means to have a Character who has nuances, dilemmas, maybe a crisis of faith.

As I said before, you're assuming that, and you're incorrect. I do nothing of the sort. I had no idea that my Hawke would be forced to kill Anders, the man she loved, because of her principles. She was a glib, sarcastic Hawke, but as much as she loved him and was mostly-happy-go-lucky, and even though she supported the mages, she couldn't let that murder and destruction pass. That was a real dilemma and a crisis of faith and love for her, but she had to do, because it was the right thing for her to do. A completely different Hawke would have done no such thing.

Imrahil_ wrote...
You have convinced me that you want a black & white resolution to every encounter.  I know this.  You know how I know this?  Because I downloaded & played Alley of Murders.  Long ago.  I just now realized you are the guy that created that amateurish dung.  My apologies.  I should have noticed that long before now.

Oh wow. Personal attacks. What a credible way to support your argument.

Imrahil_ wrote...
Look, I'll ignore your shoddy voices, I'm not even gonna concern myself with how every character sounds like they are under water.  And hey, I understand that you are willing to excuse recycled areas, because you recycled areas.  Copy-Pasted, even.

I'm sorry that the talented voice artists, who did unpaid work I might add, don't have 100% professional equipment and studios. I'm very sorry you can't accept that. And I'm sorry that you can't read that I said upfront that the mod uses recycled areas because I wanted players and modders to see that someone could make a 30-60 minute adventure that was fully voiced and added in cleanly to the main campaign.

If you'd bothered to do your research, you'd know that I even made available an entirely new village area freely available for other modders to use for their work - and that it won the first "community content" contest than ran many years ago. It seems you didn't do that.  You'd also know that my forthcoming mod uses entirely new areas for almost all of the campaign.

Imrahil_ wrote...
But you railroaded the player into the whole encounter, I mean you couldn't even have real discussion with, what'shisface, the dwarf, he was so unmemorable I forgot him.  I remember I tried talking to his minions, but they had no dialogue.  I understand why you like characters that can be conversed with using 1-2 dialogue options, because your characters had 1-2 dialogue options.

You mean you couldn't have lengthy conversations with henchmen? Like you couldn't have lengthy conversations with random barkstring NPCs in the world of the full game? The dwarf (Safin) would let you have a conversation with him about the elf he was protecting, and nothing else, but given you'd just killed a number of his men, that's somewhat unsurprising. You could decide to talk with him, say you'd make up your mind later, and then you could even betray him to the guard. From your discussion here, it seems that you didn't consider any of those options and just decided to kill him.

Also, there is not a single case where the player is given only one dialogue option. I avoid this at all costs. Also, the only time you get only two options in the mod are when you speak to Lieutentant Harsen a second time without any else to tell him. All other dialogue nodes have three or (usually) more options. If you'd done your research properly, you would know this.

Imrahil_ wrote...
Plus, you "designed" a dungeon crawl where you meet Arcane Horrors & some Shades for no reason, with little to no backstory.  No wonder you don't care about the story.  You prefer that to be optional. You made a dungeon crawl with no story.

You mean with encounters of a similar vein to those in the sidequests where you hunt a rage demon with an aging templar, and where you hunt down blood mages? You mean a couple of brief encounters that were there to provide combat between the next piece of story content regarding Osen?

It's very interesting that you consider the mod to be a dungeon crawl with no story, considering that the average player spent more time in dialogue than they did in combat in my mod. Perhaps you chose to just skip all the dialogue because you perceived it to be "pointless" investigate nodes?

Imrahil_ wrote...
I liked how Osyn... Olsen, Osen?  I'm not sure he wasn't memorable.. the ultimate Big Bad, had almost no dialogue & was like "I kill you" or else maybe "I'mma go die!"  But, he still exited stage left, regardless, never to be heard from again.  Weak.  Anyway, to our discussion, I'd like to see you re-write the Galmar & what'shername dialogues in a Wheel & make it interesting.  How does an elf become a Templar?  Oh, nevermind, it's all in Investigate.  I no longer care.  It was boring as a tree, too.

Oh, I'm sorry i didn't turn him into a companion and provide hundreds of lines of voiced dialogue. I'm sorry I didn't make modifications to core dialogue in the game from NPCs whom I don't have the original voice actors to insert new lines of dialogue to reference your decision.

Again, here you are saying that YOU don't care about a dialogue option when it is placed in investigate. This is not a problem with the dialogue, this is your interpretation. Whenever you click the "I'd like to ask you a few questions" in the main DAO campaign, mechanically, you're doing the equivalent of selecting "Investigate" on the dialogue wheel, you just don't realise it. For you, not understanding the mechanics behind how the game works leads you to believe that the game is somehow more dynamic than one using the wheel. It is not.

Imrahil_ wrote...
I think I understand why you like the Wheel.  You write terrible dialogue & the Wheel facilitates terrible dialogue. I wanna be a Dragon! I wanna hunt down a Blood Mage! Raaaar!

How childish. I did not offer any such options. If you'd actually played the game, then you'd realise there's actually more nuance in the dialogue. Maybe you just watched a let's play on YouTube rather than actually playing it, or read the comments in my project page, because you seem to remember an awful lot about my mod considering you've been telling me repeatedly how terrible it is and you played it years ago. It's also interesting that you don't seem to know anything about the choices and possibilities available to you while playing the mod. I would assume that since you said you've played it that you would, but maybe you didn't bother to explore and just picked one single path and assumed that was the only option available to you.

If you'd explored the mod, maybe you would then know that you could choose to aid the dwarf or kil him. Maybe you would know how you could choose to rescue an innocent elf by framing someone else. Or how you could voice disapproval of the templars and how you could actually pursue Osen with an aim to help him. For someone who accused me of treating everything as black and white and lacking an ability to roleplay, you're demonstrating that you have a phenomenal inability to roleplay.

Imrahil_ wrote...
No nuance.  No room for "I don't want to hunt down a Blood Mage, because I am a Blood Mage."  No room for "maybe I wanna side with these Dwarf-led people!"  Where's "I'm not sure this is the right thing to do."?  It fits your style.  It took me too long to realize you were that guy, who wrote that terrible MOD.  My mistake.  That's on me, really.  I apolgize for not realizing before now.

No room for "I don't want to hunt down a Blood Mage, because I am a Blood Mage."? It's strange that you think that, because you can tell the templars "Sorry, but I don't trust templars" or "I see no reason to risk my life for you.", which would easily fit the bill of telling them you don't want to hunt down a Blood Mage..
No room for "maybe I wanna side with these Dwarf-led people"? Well, it's funny you should mention that... because that IS in fact an option that you have.
Perhaps YOU would like to do your research and check your facts, but again, it seems that you have no regard for your credibility.

By all means, continue your personal attacks on me and my work while demonstrating that you know nothing of my roleplaying or my modding efforts. I would welcome some valid and constructive criticism, should you actually have bothered to try my work.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 23 février 2013 - 09:51 .

[AllThatJazz]

Imrahil_ wrote...

AmstradHero wrote...
Imrahil_: You stated that it was impossible to translate the dialogue list into the wheel. You said it couldn't be done. I proved that it could be done... twice. Then you changed your argument to something different. Would you care to refute this? Or aren't you concerned about your credibility?

I acknowledge you tried.  I acknowledge you failed... twice.  You moved several important dialogues off into "Investigate", like they didn't matter.  Because to you, they don't matter.  You apparently want to get through every dialogue as quickly as possible.  You don't need for your Character to have choices.  You don't even need for your different Characters to have different personalities.

You just need to click through to the resolution you want to happen.  You like being railroaded into a resolution you decided to arrive at ahead of time. You have no idea what it means to have a Character who has nuances, dilemmas, maybe a crisis of faith.

You have convinced me that you want a black & white resolution to every encounter.  I know this.  You know how I know this?  Because I downloaded & played Alley of Murders.  Long ago.  I just now realized you are the guy that created that amateurish dung.  My apologies.  I should have noticed that long before now.

Look, I'll ignore your shoddy voices, I'm not even gonna concern myself with how every character sounds like they are under water.  And hey, I understand that you are willing to excuse recycled areas, because you recycled areas.  Copy-Pasted, even.

But you railroaded the player into the whole encounter, I mean you couldn't even have real discussion with, what'shisface, the dwarf, he was so unmemorable I forgot him.  I remember I tried talking to his minions, but they had no dialogue.  I understand why you like characters that can be conversed with using 1-2 dialogue options, because your characters had 1-2 dialogue options.

Plus, you "designed" a dungeon crawl where you meet Arcane Horrors & some Shades for no reason, with little to no backstory.  No wonder you don't care about the story.  You prefer that to be optional. You made a dungeon crawl with no story (EDIT: well, except for: A Wizard Did It!).

I liked how Osyn... Olsen, Osen?  I'm not sure he wasn't memorable.. the ultimate Big Bad, had almost no dialogue & was like "I kill you" or else maybe "I'mma go die!"  But, he still exited stage left, regardless, never to be heard from again.  Weak.  Anyway, to our discussion, I'd like to see you re-write the Galmar & what'shername dialogues in a Wheel & make it interesting.  How does an elf become a Templar?  Oh, nevermind, it's all in Investigate.  I no longer care.  It was boring as a tree, too.

I think I understand why you like the Wheel.  You write terrible dialogue & the Wheel facilitates terrible dialogue. I wanna be a Dragon! I wanna hunt down a Blood Mage! Raaaar!

No nuance.  No room for "I don't want to hunt down a Blood Mage, because I am a Blood Mage."  No room for "maybe I wanna side with these Dwarf-led people!"  Where's "I'm not sure this is the right thing to do."?  It fits your style.  It took me too long to realize you were that guy, who wrote that terrible MOD.  My mistake.  That's on me, really.  I apolgize for not realizing before now.

Gosh, this entire reply comes across as incredibly rude and mean-spirited. Do you speak to people this way in real life? 

Both Alley of Murders and AH's fantastic NWN2 mod Fate of a City showed a huge amount of hard work and effort, and both imo were highly entertaining. If that sort of thing is what you consider 'amateurish dung' I honestly can't wait to play the masterpiece of nuanced line-dialogue that is your module.

[Kidd]

Amstrad, please don't listen to this, and don't go on arguing. This is about as constructive as all those "DA2 sucks and everybody who worked on it should feel bad and perhaps even die"-topics that kept popping up a few days after the DA2 launch. At least, I get the very same cringe and desire to skip reading paragraphs to save my sanity. Not liking something and voicing constructive criticism is one thing. Downright hating is quite another.

You seem to have realised he's not giving your work a fair shot already as it is - you won't make him go through your mod a second time for a second opinion when he's being this dismissive.

Speaking of mods, I really should try some. Got DAO for PC mad late so I missed most of the content being made back in the day. Might as well start with the links in your signature =)

Modifié par KiddDaBeauty, 23 février 2013 - 09:45 .

[AmstradHero]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Amstrad, don't listen to this, and don't go on arguing. This is about as constructive as all those "DA2 sucks and everybody who worked on it should feel bad and perhaps even die"-topics that kept popping up a few days after the DA2 launch. At least, I get the very same cringe and desire to skip reading paragraphs to save my sanity. You seem to have realised he's not giving your work a fair shot already as it is - you won't make him go through your mod a second time for a second opinion when he's being this dismissive.

Don't worry, I'm not taking any of this to heart, I just did not want anyone to read his post and think that his criticism was accurate. I'm all for constructive criticism, even if it's brutal. I got given some very strong criticism for my previous work, which was initially hard to take considering how much effort I put into my modding, but it allowed me to improve my work and my skills.

However, I do feel the need to correct anything that is blatantly and deliberately inaccurate from someone trying to attack me, if not simply to point out that is what is happening.

I hope you find some good DAO mods that you enjoy - there are some great ones available!

[Firky]

Wow. I'd vaguely stopped reading this thread.

But I have to say, Amstrad's Alley of Murders was great.

Not that I'm saying "It's great for a mod," because it genuinely was fun to play, but the fact that one modder can successfully use so many aspects of a developer toolkit and create a cohesive result is pretty amazing, in of itself, to my mind. Alley of Murders was released ages ago, too. Like, in the - everyone's still experimenting with the toolset - phase.

Go Amstrad. The DA toolset has a pretty steep learning curve. I know this from my own experience with it and it's probably also evidenced by the (relative) lack of large, playable campaigns released. (PS. Man, I can't wait for the Divinity: Original Sin toolset. This year!)

[Imrahil_]

[quote]AmstradHero wrote...
 Oh wow. Personal attacks. What a credible way to support your argument.[/quote]
Please quote my "Personal attacks".  I've criticized your MOD, to illustrate a point, not you.  Never criticized you, personally.


[quote]I'm sorry that the talented voice artists, who did unpaid work I might add, don't have 100% professional equipment and studios. I'm very sorry you can't accept that. And I'm sorry that you can't read that I said upfront that the mod uses recycled areas because I wanted players and modders to see that someone could make a 30-60 minute adventure that was fully voiced and added in cleanly to the main campaign.[/quote]
I criticized your MOD, which as you say "don't have 100% professional equipment and studios".  It's a valid critcism, which you even agree with!  And just saying upfront that you Copy-Paste areas doesn't excuse the fact that you Copy-Paste'd areas.  Again, it's a valid criticism that even you acknowledge is a down-side.  We agree!  We're on the same side here.

[quote]
You mean you couldn't have lengthy conversations with henchmen? Like you couldn't have lengthy conversations with random barkstring NPCs in the world of the full game?
[/quote]
Well, to be fair, you couldn't have any conversation with them, much less a lengthy one.

[quote][quote]Imrahil_ wrote...
Plus, you "designed" a dungeon crawl where you meet Arcane Horrors & some Shades for no reason, with little to no backstory. No wonder you don't care about the story. You prefer that to be optional. You made a dungeon crawl with no story.
[/quote]
You mean with encounters of a similar vein to those in the sidequests where you hunt a rage demon with an aging templar, and where you hunt down blood mages? You mean a couple of brief encounters that were there to provide combat between the next piece of story content regarding Osen?
[/quote]
Again we agree.  Your encounters were akin to the most basic sidequests in the main game.  Is that something to be aspired to?

[quote]
It's very interesting that you consider the mod to be a dungeon crawl with no story, considering that the average player spent more time in dialogue than they did in combat in my mod. Perhaps you chose to just skip all the dialogue because you perceived it to be "pointless" investigate nodes?
[/quote]
Heh.  "It's very interesting..."  Are you Sherlock Holmes?  I find that most interesting, my Dear Watson.  How long does combat take?  How long does dialogue, even uninteresting dialogue take?  That's a strange metric.  A game with no combat & 100% boring dialogue would... be... good?  By your metric?  Elementary, I say!

[quote]Oh, I'm sorry i didn't turn him into a companion and provide hundreds of lines of voiced dialogue. I'm sorry I didn't make modifications to core dialogue in the game from NPCs whom I don't have the original voice actors to insert new lines of dialogue to reference your decision.
[/quote]
Yes, I said as much.  It's a shame you didn't make him interesting in any way.  We agree.

[quote]Again, here you are saying that YOU don't care about a dialogue option when it is placed in investigate. This is not a problem with the dialogue, this is your interpretation. Whenever you click the "I'd like to ask you a few questions" in the main DAO campaign, mechanically, you're doing the equivalent of selecting "Investigate" on the dialogue wheel, you just don't realise it. For you, not understanding the mechanics behind how the game works leads you to believe that the game is somehow more dynamic than one using the wheel. It is not.
[/quote]
Er, no.  There really isn't an "I'd like to ask a few questions..." option in DA:O, except when you're talking to your companions in camp occasionally.  Which, granted, could be worded better, but it's like "hey, companion I've  been travelling with forever, let's have a conversation...".

It doesn't really happen with people you meet outside of camp, although I don't doubt you cold find one or two instances where that happens, although I can't off the top of my head think of anyime it happens outside of camp. It's just not... normal. Unlike the Investigate option, which happens all the time.

[quote][quote]Imrahil_ wrote...
I think I understand why you like the Wheel. You write terrible dialogue & the Wheel facilitates terrible dialogue. I wanna be a Dragon! I wanna hunt down a Blood Mage! Raaaar!
[/quote]
How childish. I did not offer any such options. If you'd actually played the game, then you'd realise there's actually more nuance in the dialogue. Maybe you just watched a let's play on YouTube rather than actually
playing it, or read the comments in my project page, because you seem to remember an awful lot about my mod
considering you've been telling me repeatedly how terrible it is and you played it years ago.
[/quote]How literal.  Obviously the "I wanna be a Dragon" is from DA2.  It literally happens in DA2.  I thought most people knew that.  But, as I said, I downloaded & played your MOD long before I realized I was haing a conversation with the person who created it.  I referenced characters from it.  I referenced encounters from it.  You know I played it.  You even admit I "remember an awful lot about [your] mod".  Make up your mind.  Did I watch it on YouTube or did I play it?  You can't have it both ways.



[quote]Maybe you would then know that you could choose to aid the dwarf or kill him. Maybe you would know how you could choose to rescue an innocent elf by framing someone else.[/quote]
Those are the same thing.  You can't just say "Bugger off."  You can either aid the Dwarf by framing someone or kill him & rescue the innocent elf.  You're trying to make it sound like you have a lot of choices but you don't.  It's Door #1 or Door #2.  It's lierally "Help me or die!" *twirls moustache*.  Tres cliche.

[quote]
Or how you could voice disapproval of the templars and how you could actually pursue Osen with an aim to help him.
[/quote]Oh, yeah, certainly.  And how does that change the outcome?  What's that?  It doesn't.  Oh, right.

[quote]
For someone who accused me of treating everything as black and white and lacking an ability to roleplay, you're demonstrating that you have a phenomenal inability to roleplay.[/quote]
No, I'm accusing you of treating everything like DA2 does.  "What would you like to choose? A or B? - Aha! No matter what you choose, the same thing happens! Ta da! Choice! dum dm dum"  But with additional bad dialgue.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 23 février 2013 - 10:19 .

[AllThatJazz]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

Amstrad, please don't listen to this, and don't go on arguing. This is about as constructive as all those "DA2 sucks and everybody who worked on it should feel bad and perhaps even die"-topics that kept popping up a few days after the DA2 launch. At least, I get the very same cringe and desire to skip reading paragraphs to save my sanity. Not liking something and voicing constructive criticism is one thing. Downright hating is quite another.

You seem to have realised he's not giving your work a fair shot already as it is - you won't make him go through your mod a second time for a second opinion when he's being this dismissive.

Speaking of mods, I really should try some. Got DAO for PC mad late so I missed most of the content being made back in the day. Might as well start with the links in your signature =)

Alley of Murders is a great addition to the main campaign! Highly recommended by this player.  Also, if you're into the romance stuff, or more companions (with plenty to say) in general, then the Ser Gilmore mod is another good one

[AmstradHero]

Imrahil_ wrote...
Er, no.  There really isn't an "I'd like to ask a few questions..." option in DA:O, except when you're talking to your companions in camp occasionally.  Which, granted, could be worded better, but it's like "hey, companion I've  been travelling with forever, let's have a conversation...".

It doesn't really happen with people you meet outside of camp? You mean I was imagining that question in the video of Lloyd's conversation you posted earlier? How factually inaccurate of you.

Imrahil_ wrote...
as I said, I downloaded & played your MOD long before I realized I was haing a conversation with the person who created it.  I referenced characters from it.  I referenced encounters from it.  You know I played it.  You even admit I "remember an awful lot about [your] mod".  Make up your mind.  Did I watch it on YouTube or did I play it?  You can't have it both ways.

I was demonstrating that you either didn't play it, or "experienced" it such a way that is must have been memorable or recent (since you remember most of the character names). Given the fact you're demonstrating that you don't know much at all about the dialogue options and choices involved, it seems fairly likely that you didn't actually play it.

Imrahil_ wrote...
Those are the same thing.  You can't just say "Bugger off."  You can either aid the Dwarf by framing someone or kill him & rescue the innocent elf.  You're trying to make it sound like you have a lot of choices but you don't.  It's Door #1 or Door #2.  It's lierally "Help me or die!" *twirls moustache*.  Tres cliche.

Actually no, there's no option to "kill him & rescue the innocent elf". Again, you're demonstrating that you don't know anything about the mod or the choices involved. I would kindly request that you stop making blatantly inaccurate claims about my work.

You know what? You can't tell Duncan "bugger off, I don't want to be a warden." You can't say "bugger off, I don't want to fight the blight." It's literally, kill the archdemon or die. You know, this applies to pretty much every single quest in every RPG ever. Your way of telling someone to bugger off from a sidequest is to not do the sidequest.

Imrahil_ wrote...

For someone who accused me of treating everything as black and white and lacking an ability to roleplay, you're demonstrating that you have a phenomenal inability to roleplay.

No, I'm accusing you of treating everything like DA2 does.  "What would you like to choose? A or B? - Aha! No matter what you choose, the same thing happens! Ta da! Choice! dum dm dum"  But with additional bad dialgue.

No, the same thing doesn't happen. Safin and Fatheren can live or die. Harsen can find his killer or not. You can kill Elsylmun or spare his life. Tyria might live or die, and that happens as a result of other choices you make within the mod  You can kill Osen or spare him.  Each choice you get actually makes a difference to those NPCs and what happens, but you obviously weren't aware of that.

Again, I repeat my request that you be factually accurate when discussing my mod.

Modifié par AmstradHero, 23 février 2013 - 10:44 .

[Imrahil_]

AmstradHero wrote...
It doesn't really happen with people you meet outside of camp? You mean I was imagining that question in the video of Lloyd's conversation you posted earlier? How factually inaccurate of you.

Well then surely you should be able to quote where it happens, right?  I wonder why you didn't...

I was demonstrating that you either didn't play it, or "experienced" it such a way that is must have been memorable or recent (since you remember most of the character names). Given the fact you're demonstrating that you don't know much at all about the dialogue options and choices involved, it seems fairly likely that you didn't actually play it.

No, wishful thinking on your part.  I quoted specific examples of characters & encounters.  You're flailing.  "Oh, you must not have played it!"  This critique does you no favors.

Imrahil_ wrote...
Those are the same thing.  You can't just say "Bugger off."  You can either aid the Dwarf by framing someone or kill him & rescue the innocent elf.  You're trying to make it sound like you have a lot of choices but you don't.  It's Door #1 or Door #2.  It's lierally "Help me or die!" *twirls moustache*.  Tres cliche.

Actually no, there's no option to "kill him & rescue the innocent elf". Again, you're demonstrating that you don't know anything about the mod or the choices involved.

Hmmm... I'm starting to think you only watched it on YouTube.  Have you even played Alleys of Murder?  Please, illustrate for me the options you have for dealing with the Dwarf.  I also like how you don't even mention him by name - does he even have a name?

You know what? You can't tell Duncan "bugger off, I don't want to be a warden." You can't say "bugger off, I don't want to fight the blight." It's literally, kill the archdemon or die. You know, this applies to pretty much every single quest in every RPG ever. Your way of telling someone to bugger off from a sidequest is to not do the sidequest.

Yes, that's a common criticism of DA:O as a whole.  But it doesn't apply to most side-encounters. 

]
No, the same thing doesn't happen. Safin and Fatheren can live or die. Harsen can find his killer or not. You can kill Elsylmun or spare his life. Tyria might live or die, and you don't even get to decide this directly.  You can kill Osen or spare him.  Each choice you get actually makes a difference to those NPCs and what happens, but you obviously weren't aware of that.

Fascinating.  And how does anything play out different?  How does the plot change if Safin & Fasereth die?  Two steps down the road, what changes, exactly?  What does it matter if you kill Osen?  Some gloves, or guantlets, I believe?  How do your companions react?

Modifié par Imrahil_, 23 février 2013 - 10:49 .

[AmstradHero]

Imrahil_ wrote...
Have you even played Alleys of Murder? 

No, I haven't. I did, however, create Alley of Murders.

Given you can't even be bothered to get the name of my mod correct, and this is in addition to making countless other blatantly inaccurate claims, I'm afraid that I cannot give any serious consideration to your flaming. I suggest that you visit RPGCodex and start ranting about DA2 and my mod there.

Should you wish to have a reasoned discussion about the dialogue wheel or raise some constructive criticism regarding my mod, I will be here.

[Imrahil_]

I accept your concession.

Please try to view a YouTube of The Alleys of Some Murders if you want to have further discussions.

Modifié par Imrahil_, 23 février 2013 - 11:03 .

[Gotholhorakh]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Gosh, this entire reply comes across as incredibly rude and mean-spirited. Do you speak to people this way in real life? 

^This.

[Renmiri1]

Sad troll is sad.

Creative people and gamers alike respect AmstradHero and not one of your hate filled screeds will change that. You are nothing and have nothing to add to the world. AmstradHero's work speaks for itself

[andrew252]

i want a home base that rivals the normandy,ill settle for a castle though

[WoolyJoe]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The problem stems when someone states that "objectively" something is anything, because people only use it in a way to dismiss the other perspective as being less meaningful.

When you also include the term "steaming pile of trash" any hope of having an "objective" discussion is out.

If you like DA2 then yay for you. If you don't like DA2 then yay for you. Continuing to sidetrack discussions by making obviously fruitless claims that people consistently disagree with is not productive. Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

Although I'm not Commander Shepard, this is probably why Schumacher is one of my favourite posters on the forum.

[Renmiri1]

Now THIS is a well written article. You can make suggestions and even criticism without coming accross like a forum troll, ya know ?

http://www.oxm.co.uk...u-need-to-know/

Modifié par Renmiri1, 26 février 2013 - 04:41 .

[andrew252]

i want to see one instance where swooping is NOT bad.you know just once for the kids at home

[AmstradHero]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Now THIS is a well written article. You can make suggestions and even criticism without coming accross like a forum troll, ya know ?

http://www.oxm.co.uk...u-need-to-know/

Yeah, that's not bad.  Of course, in the future I do expect to hear the complaint:
"BioWare are liars! They said I would be able to play as a panda in DA4!"



PS I, for one, support our new panda overlords.