588 réponses à ce sujet

[H. Birdman]

The list was pretty much spot on. I can take or leave the boobs, but the rest is right.

One other point: If you're still defending DA2, that's fine. Just accept it's because you love the Dragon Age universe with all your heart and don't particularly care what kind of game BioWare produces. I love my kids and enjoy their art projects, regardless of their merit. But DA2, like my 3 year old's scribbling, is bad from any objective perspective.

Notice that you never see any BioWare employees come to the boards and vigorously defend DA2. Nobody who had to put their name on it ever says, "It was brilliant. You just don't understand it." At most, they say, "It was a mix of good and bad, and we're working on fixing the bad." They know --we know, everybody knows-- DA2 was a rushed mess.

If you're okay with a rushed mess, that's fine. Just don't deny objective reality.

[AlexJK]

H. Birdman wrote...

But DA2, like my 3 year old's scribbling, is bad from any objective perspective.

[...]

If you're okay with a rushed mess, that's fine. Just don't deny objective reality.

If you disliked or even hated DA2, that's fine. But stop pretending you understand what "objective" means. DA2 was not objectively bad. It literally, by definition, wasn't.

[The Teyrn of Whatever]

Silent protagonist is not going to happen. I think BioWare sees that as a step back and so do I.

[Sutekh]

H. Birdman wrote...

One other point: If you're still defending DA2, that's fine.  
<snip>

If you're okay with a rushed mess, that's fine. Just don't deny objective reality.

"Objective Reality" set aside, you do realize that article is aimed as DAO as well as DA2, right?

[Thetford]

I don't get how he praises Shepard in one paragraph, and moans about voiced protagonists in the next. To me, voiced or not, it still doesn't give me half the options of what I would say, in any case, I can live with or without it.

The only issue I have with the boobs issue, is that while everyone seems to wear lower body underwear with some sort of Medievalesque motif, the bras the women wore in DAO seemed to have come from a 20th century department store.

Birdman, I may be mistaken, but I don't think I've seen any developer of any game defend a game with such enthusiasm, they all seem to go for muted civility (and those are the cases where the developers bother to interact with the community).

[Renmiri1]

AlexJK wrote...

H. Birdman wrote...

But DA2, like my 3 year old's scribbling, is bad from any objective perspective.

[...]

If you're okay with a rushed mess, that's fine. Just don't deny objective reality.

If you disliked or even hated DA2, that's fine. But stop pretending you understand what "objective" means. DA2 was not objectively bad. It literally, by definition, wasn't.

I think even us who love DA2 can agree the game was rushed and it shows in certain areas. But from there to go overboard like Birdman... I don't think you know what "objective reality" means Mr Bird. Far from it.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

PC Gamer has no credability anymore after their DA2 review.

[Anchor5]

"It’s not a question of making Dragon Age a dark universe so much as actually living up to the darkness already written into it"

While I love Dragon Age, I completely agree with this point. I've always felt like the games never quite lived up to the lore. For example, if I had never played and someone tried to describe the darkspawn or abominations to me, I'd probably think "that sounds like a really creepy and scary game," but so far it feels like game's engine hasn't been able to fully capture the depth and engrossment of the story.

[imbs]

H. Birdman wrote...

The list was pretty much spot on. I can take or leave the boobs, but the rest is right.

One other point: If you're still defending DA2, that's fine. Just accept it's because you love the Dragon Age universe with all your heart and don't particularly care what kind of game BioWare produces. I love my kids and enjoy their art projects, regardless of their merit. But DA2, like my 3 year old's scribbling, is bad from any objective perspective.

Notice that you never see any BioWare employees come to the boards and vigorously defend DA2. Nobody who had to put their name on it ever says, "It was brilliant. You just don't understand it." At most, they say, "It was a mix of good and bad, and we're working on fixing the bad." They know --we know, everybody knows-- DA2 was a rushed mess.

If you're okay with a rushed mess, that's fine. Just don't deny objective reality.

This board is nearly entirely in denial about DA2 m8. People swear that the combat was amazing, the characters were good and the story was a "good and interesting tale of political intrigue" - I swear people actually believe this stuff.

I find it irritating that people refuse to be objective about the steaming pile of trash that DA2 was, and when you actually give reasons why it was trash they act as though it's inarguable because "opinion"

No, DA2 was bad, but try telling this board that yo.

[Eelectrica]

They make some good points. I loved playing a Blood Mage in DA2.
Blood mages are bad we must kill them all... Oh I'm a blood mage... Oops.

But yes, I don't want a straight Console to PC port. I'm done if that's the way it's going to be.

[Dean_the_Young]

Commander Kurt wrote...

 What is this star map he's talking about (is he confusing DA with skyrim? ..really?)?

He's referring to a story structure concept, as seen in games such as KOTOR, DAO, and ME1. It's the typical design structure of non-linear storytelling.

It doesn't necessarily have only five parts, since the actual number is irrelevant, but five is the base number for the illusion of non-linearity. A game will have an initial intro section (usually composing the tutorial section and setting the requirements for the Epic Quest), a middle group of Main Quests that can be done in any order (usually finding key plot devices to reach a necessary requirement to reach some goal), and then finale, once again returning to a more linear path for the conclusion.

In DAO, this would be separated as Origin through Ostagar: Treaty Quests: Landsmeet and finale. In ME1, Eden Prime : Story missions through Virmire : post-Mutiny. Etc. In the case of KOTOR, it would obviously be Intro : Treaty Quests: Finale. This is distinguished from, say, DA2 or ME2 because those games have a more linear critical path.

[Atakuma]

imbs wrote...

I find it irritating that people refuse to be objective about the steaming pile of trash that DA2 was, and when you actually give reasons why it was trash they act as though it's inarguable because "opinion"

There is nothing objective about it. If they think it's a good game then it is to them, arguing otherwise just makes you sound like a narcissistic jackass.

[FINE HERE]

Thetford wrote...

I don't get how he praises Shepard in one paragraph, and moans about voiced protagonists in the next. To me, voiced or not, it still doesn't give me half the options of what I would say, in any case, I can live with or without it.

He says that Shepard was more of a set character than the Warden, and that a set character like Shepard worked for Mass Effect. In his opinion, Hawk in Dragon Age 2 didn't work as well and came across as an annoying character and not the one he wanted to roleplay.

At least, that's how I understood it.

[imbs]

Atakuma wrote...

imbs wrote...

I find it irritating that people refuse to be objective about the steaming pile of trash that DA2 was, and when you actually give reasons why it was trash they act as though it's inarguable because "opinion"

There is nothing objective about it. If they think it's a good game then it is to them, arguing otherwise just makes you sound like a narcissistic jackass.

Thinking a game is good is different to liking a game

[Allan Schumacher]

The problem stems when someone states that "objectively" something is anything, because people only use it in a way to dismiss the other perspective as being less meaningful.

When you also include the term "steaming pile of trash" any hope of having an "objective" discussion is out.

If you like DA2 then yay for you. If you don't like DA2 then yay for you. Continuing to sidetrack discussions by making obviously fruitless claims that people consistently disagree with is not productive. Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

[AntiChri5]

Whats this subjectivity nonsense?

There is only one valid, objective opinion and that is, of course, mine.

[imbs]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

The problem stems when someone states that "objectively" something is anything, because people only use it in a way to dismiss the other perspective as being less meaningful.

When you also include the term "steaming pile of trash" any hope of having an "objective" discussion is out.

If you like DA2 then yay for you. If you don't like DA2 then yay for you. Continuing to sidetrack discussions by making obviously fruitless claims that people consistently disagree with is not productive. Insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

I wasn't trying to have an objective discussion I was merely attempting to support fellow poster birdman hero!

[Siegdrifa]

imbs wrote...

Atakuma wrote...

imbs wrote...

I find it irritating that people refuse to be objective about the steaming pile of trash that DA2 was, and when you actually give reasons why it was trash they act as though it's inarguable because "opinion"

There is nothing objective about it. If they think it's a good game then it is to them, arguing otherwise just makes you sound like a narcissistic jackass.

Thinking a game is good is different to liking a game

I agree with Imbs on this, it is perfectly possible to like something and reconize it needs more work / polish or whatever on some part, as it is possible to really hate something but aknowledge it can be a fine piece of work.

I spent a good time on DA2 (i'm on the side that enjoyed most of DA2), but if i had to name some weak spot, for exemple, the overuse of the same area to cover the lack of contant would be pretty objective and accurate.

When DOOM3 was just released, i showed it to one of my friend on my new high end computer, and he said "damn it's ugly, i hate that"... so i asked him "what is ugly ? the game itself or the ambiance it achieve ?" and he answered "no the game is realy well made, the texture are beautifull, it's amazing, but you know i hate this kind of graphic and this kind of game".

That said... i would desagree that DA2 was a pile of trash.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 10 février 2013 - 01:41 .

[Zippy72]

That editorial is asking for things the writer knows won't be in the game. It seems like he's setting up the disappointment in advance by having unrealistic expectations. And since when did PCgamer rate Witcher2 higher than DA2? Did they retro-actively adjust their scores?

[Allan Schumacher]

I wasn't trying to have an objective discussion I was merely attempting to support fellow poster birdman hero!

If you weren't trying to have an objective discussion, then from what it looks like you were trying to stir the pot by antagonizing those that you know that post would bother.

Unless your purpose is to make posts that are also steaming piles of trash, I suggest you stop making posts that are objectively steaming piles of trash that will serve little else but antagonize those that you know it will disagree with.

You failed at your support, and you're in denial that people like the game m8. Sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.



Huh!  Isn't it FUN unilaterally deciding the quality of someone else's contributions? Since I'm not particularly convinced you'll understand the irony, and this goes for everyone regardless of whether you enjoyed DA2 or not, don't waste anyone's time attempting to critique a game and then substantiate your subjective opinion as being anything resembling objectivity. Even if you DO want to make a genuine objective breakdown to show how people are wrong, it's not going to be productive, and it's just going to cause bickering to happen and ultimately leave me increasingly ornery.

Furthermore, and again for everybody, if someone IS going around saying "Uh, objectively this game is bad/good," stop taking the bait.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 10 février 2013 - 01:50 .

[AntiChri5]

Zippy72 wrote...

That editorial is asking for things the writer knows won't be in the game.

Sounds like a fantastically pointless exercise to me then.

[imbs]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I wasn't trying to have an objective discussion I was merely attempting to support fellow poster birdman hero!

If you weren't trying to have an objective discussion, then from what it looks like you were trying to stir the pot by antagonizing those that you know that post would bother.

Unless your purpose is to make posts that are also steaming piles of trash, I suggest you stop making posts that are objectively steaming piles of trash that will serve little else but antagonize those that you know it will disagree with.

You failed at your support, and you're in denial that people like the game m8. Sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.



Huh!  Isn't it FUN unilaterally deciding the quality of someone else's contributions? Since I'm not particularly convinced you'll understand the irony, and this goes for everyone regardless of whether you enjoyed DA2 or not, don't waste anyone's time attempting to critique a game and then substantiate your subjective opinion as being anything resembling objectivity. Even if you DO want to make a genuine objective breakdown to show how people are wrong, it's not going to be productive, and it's just going to cause bickering to happen and ultimately leave me increasingly ornery.

Furthermore, and again for everybody, if someone IS going around saying "Uh, objectively this game is bad/good," stop taking the bait.

You are easily the best dev that posts on these boards m8 (with a capital M) I do enjoy your posts sometimes. Despite the underhanded insult (wont understand the irony? so cruel) I will attempt to comply with your desires.

[Beerfish]

Another make it like the Witcher 2 bent to a story. Meh.

[Paul E Dangerously]

So they praise Shepard for being a great character..then immediately want no VA? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Steppenwolf]

I can't take the article seriously. The writer doesn't even know who Loghain is or what what he looks like.