588 réponses à ce sujet

[addiction21]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Twisted Path wrote...

Yeah, didn't PC Gamer call Dragon Age 2 the "RPG of the Decade"? If it was so perfect what is there to fix? Hmm...

Nothing is ever perfect.

Not even "perfect" games.

I am not sure where perfect comes out of "RPG of the decade" It was not "Perfect RPG of the Decade"

[Medhia Nox]

Slimgrin - I would never consider Tolkien high fantasy.

D&D is high fantasy - which is extraordinarily different from Tolkien.

Dragon Age is far closer to D&D than Tolkien.

A Song of Ice and Fire has dragons and undead - Middle Earth has dragons and undead. Is A Song of Ice and Fire high fantasy?

[The Hierophant]

addiction21 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

But in the end DA is what it is. Another high fantasy epic firmly in the grip of Tolkien.

I would say that is high praise comparing it to Tolkien. Then again suspect it was more of that usual "clichéd its like Tolkien because its fantasy with elves and dwarfs" of something similar.

You have to admit that DA:O's Warden Treaties/collect your armies plotline was an extended "Gondor Calls for Aid" scenario.

[slimgrin]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Slimgrin - I would never consider Tolkien high fantasy.

D&D is high fantasy - which is extraordinarily different from Tolkien.

Dragon Age is far closer to D&D than Tolkien.

A Song of Ice and Fire has dragons and undead - Middle Earth has dragons and undead. Is A Song of Ice and Fire high fantasy?

Tolkien practically invented high fantasy dude...

DA:O team was completely enamored with Tolkien and Peter Jackson's take on Tolkien. The dark spawn are Sauron's horde verbatim.

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 février 2013 - 06:07 .

[addiction21]

The Hierophant wrote...

You have to admit that DA:O's Warden Treaties/collect your armies plotline was an extended "Gondor Calls for Aid" scenario.

Not at all really. Frodo is the Warden. Even then Aragorn did not set out to collect aid for Gondor and not even after the breaking of the fellowship does he work towards that.  ITs not till the 5th book that he actively seeks aid.

slimgrin wrote...


DA:O team was completely enamored with Tolkien and Peter Jackson's take on Tolkien. The dark spawn are Sauron's horde verbatim.

Not even close. This only shows how little you actually know about either. Just another "its like Tolkien in the most superficial and meaningless way. So its bad"

[slimgrin]

addiction21 wrote...

Not even close. This only shows how little you actually know about either. Just another "its like Tolkien in the most superficial and meaningless way. So its bad"

http://www.ign.com/a...u-review?page=2

Modifié par slimgrin, 10 février 2013 - 06:17 .

[addiction21]

slimgrin wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Not even close. This only shows how little you actually know about either. Just another "its like Tolkien in the most superficial and meaningless way. So its bad"

http://www.ign.com/a...u-review?page=2

If that's your counter argument I rest my case. Goodnight.

[slimgrin]

addiction21 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Not even close. This only shows how little you actually know about either. Just another "its like Tolkien in the most superficial and meaningless way. So its bad"

http://www.ign.com/a...u-review?page=2

If that's your counter argument I rest my case. Goodnight.

Well that was easy. Here I thought I'd actually have to explain myself. 

[Fredward]

Any claim to true objectivity is inherently flawed because the criteria for "objectivity" was chosen subjectively by what someone thought was "objective." There can be no objectivity. It's one of the window dressings we put up to kid ourselves into thinking our existence has any kind of meaning and that we aren't all just incredibly inconsequential bits of floating space dust. Also, don't repeat this argument near a mental health practitioner.

But yeah, if we're going by what this reality defines as objective, that article was ludicrous. xp

[Chromie]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Slimgrin - I would never consider Tolkien high fantasy.
 

Is this person serious?

[Robhuzz]

Read that article before. It's got some very good points. I never took their 94/100 (or what was it anyway) 'review' of DA2 seriously anyway, or any other 'professional' review for that matter. So I'm not bothered by that little aspect.

[Arppis]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

Bah, they better have party customization.

They better have armor customization for player character.

[Swagger7]

Finally read the article and all I have to say is, "Wow, this is what passes for video game journalism these days? Someone actually printed this?" it's full of errors, as Allan mentioned, but it's also full of oversights and just not that good. They didn't even bother to find out that a voiced PC has already been confirmed, when anyone on the forums could have told them that. Altogether, it came off as really sad. You can find better criticisms and wishlists on the BSN without having to look hard. I agreed with a good bit of what he said, but the whole thing came off as sloppy, like it was a throw-away assignment written in an afternoon while distractedly browsing the internet.

[MissOuJ]

Swagger7 wrote...

Finally read the article and all I have to say is, "Wow, this is what passes for video game journalism these days? Someone actually printed this?" it's full of errors, as Allan mentioned, but it's also full of oversights and just not that good. They didn't even bother to find out that a voiced PC has already been confirmed, when anyone on the forums could have told them that. Altogether, it came off as really sad. You can find better criticisms and wishlists on the BSN without having to look hard. I agreed with a good bit of what he said, but the whole thing came off as sloppy, like it was a throw-away assignment written in an afternoon while distractedly browsing the internet.

Completely agreed.

Also, some of those points are absolute bull. "Build for PC" - sure, as soon as console sales become marginal. Both DAO and DA2 sold more on consoles than on PC - it would be just bad business to ditch the console market. Not to say that PC market is insignificant or that consoles are better (because really it's a matter of preference). "Return of the God baby" - sure, since we all know the Dark Ritual was a scripted event and not up to the PC to deci... oh wait. Have a nice time trying to write around that one while at the same time making it a significant plot point.

Also, calling Witcher series "mature" is like calling XBox Live a civilized discussion platform.

Actually, I take it back. You know what? Take the Witcher idea of "Mature" and genderbend it. Have the (always female) PC walk into two male NPCs and the one spanking the (naked) other. Or have two male characters kiss for a amgical ritual and then have a female NPC shout "gaymancy! my favourite"! Add full frontal male nudity with "tasteful" camera angles for female characters to cover tactical areas for love scenes. Let's see how male gamers like "maturity" then.

Or, you know, don't, since gay fetishism is just as bad as lesbian fetishism.

[Zubie]

MissOuJ wrote...

Actually, I take it back. You know what? Take the Witcher idea of "Mature" and genderbend it. Have the (always female) PC walk into two male NPCs and the one spanking the (naked) other. Or have two male characters kiss for a amgical ritual and then have a female NPC shout "gaymancy! my favourite"! Add full frontal male nudity with "tasteful" camera angles for female characters to cover tactical areas for love scenes. Let's see how male gamers like "maturity" then.

Go for it, you know since that occurs for only a few minutes in a 45-50 hour game. You people are just as bad as Fox News really.

Modifié par easygame88, 10 février 2013 - 01:08 .

[nightscrawl]

easygame88 wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Actually, I take it back. You know what? Take the Witcher idea of "Mature" and genderbend it. Have the (always female) PC walk into two male NPCs and the one spanking the (naked) other. Or have two male characters kiss for a amgical ritual and then have a female NPC shout "gaymancy! my favourite"! Add full frontal male nudity with "tasteful" camera angles for female characters to cover tactical areas for love scenes. Let's see how male gamers like "maturity" then.

Go for it, you know since that occurs for only a few minutes in a 45-50 hour game. You people are just as bad as Fox News really.

Were you not around for the whole "ZOMG Anders came onto me *gag*" thing? MissOuJ is spot on. There is a double standard about such things, whether you agree with it on a personal level is another matter, but it does exist in society as a whole.

[MissOuJ]

easygame88 wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Actually, I take it back. You know what? Take the Witcher idea of "Mature" and genderbend it. Have the (always female) PC walk into two male NPCs and the one spanking the (naked) other. Or have two male characters kiss for a amgical ritual and then have a female NPC shout "gaymancy! my favourite"! Add full frontal male nudity with "tasteful" camera angles for female characters to cover tactical areas for love scenes. Let's see how male gamers like "maturity" then.

Go for it, you know since that occurs for only a few minutes in a 45-50 hour game. You people are just as bad as Fox News really.

So the few minutes are not enough to make the game sexist and pretty goddamn problematic, but enough to make it "mature", "dark" and "edgy"? And since it's only one/couple scenes in ~50 hours of game play there's no possible way gamers would complain if the roles were reversed, say, if fully clothed male NPC hit on their male avatars...

Oh, I forgot. Anders and the "bohoo Bioware neglected their straight male demographic" thead.

Plus, Fox News goes together with feminism and LGBT rights about as much as open fire and gasoline.

[BrookerT]

MissOuJ wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Actually, I take it back. You know what? Take the Witcher idea of "Mature" and genderbend it. Have the (always female) PC walk into two male NPCs and the one spanking the (naked) other. Or have two male characters kiss for a amgical ritual and then have a female NPC shout "gaymancy! my favourite"! Add full frontal male nudity with "tasteful" camera angles for female characters to cover tactical areas for love scenes. Let's see how male gamers like "maturity" then.

Go for it, you know since that occurs for only a few minutes in a 45-50 hour game. You people are just as bad as Fox News really.

So the few minutes are not enough to make the game sexist and pretty goddamn problematic, but enough to make it "mature", "dark" and "edgy"? And since it's only one/couple scenes in ~50 hours of game play there's no possible way gamers would complain if the roles were reversed, say, if fully clothed male NPC hit on their male avatars...

Oh, I forgot. Anders and the "bohoo Bioware neglected their straight male demographic" thead.

Plus, Fox News goes together with feminism and LGBT rights about as much as open fire and gasoline.

Also, you have the Flotsom Brothel, where the nude models are super high quality and the face models are a blurred mess on consoles. It says a lot about a company where their priorities ar more focused on naked bodies than human faces. 

[Zubie]

nightscrawl wrote...

Were you not around for the whole "ZOMG Anders came onto me *gag*" thing? MissOuJ is spot on. There is a double standard about such things, whether you agree with it on a personal level is another matter, but it does exist in society as a whole.

Well I agree with that but her post seems to be more about mocking the game based on a few small scenes from a very long game and dismissing it simply based on that. Which is silly.

The Witcher 2 took me 50 hours to complete and I saw only 2 scenes with any nudity in it at all. I did not see the "lesbomancy" scene since I haven't done Iorveth's path. The way people talk about this game sometimes you would think you'd see naked women at every turn in this game, which couldn't be further from the truth, unless you deliberately spend your time at the brothel. 

I know some on this board choose to hate the game simply due to some of its fans on here, which is kind of understandable but they are really missing out on an excellent title. I would rather see what all of the fuss is about, and not from a youtube video.

[MissOuJ]

BrookerT wrote...

Also, you have the Flotsom Brothel, where the nude models are super high quality and the face models are a blurred mess on consoles. It says a lot about a company where their priorities ar more focused on naked bodies than human faces. 

That's... so, so disturbing. Isn't that where Geralt and co. get drunk and find..."new uses" for the prostitutes? Another fine example of Witcher 2's regard for women. It's kinda similar with the marketing fad of objectification where they use female body parts (but never the face) to sell products... kinda like that French PSP ad with a headless woman with two pairs of breasts and text reading "Twice the sensation". Good job there Sony!

[Cimeas]

BrookerT wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

easygame88 wrote...

MissOuJ wrote...

Actually, I take it back. You know what? Take the Witcher idea of "Mature" and genderbend it. Have the (always female) PC walk into two male NPCs and the one spanking the (naked) other. Or have two male characters kiss for a amgical ritual and then have a female NPC shout "gaymancy! my favourite"! Add full frontal male nudity with "tasteful" camera angles for female characters to cover tactical areas for love scenes. Let's see how male gamers like "maturity" then.

Go for it, you know since that occurs for only a few minutes in a 45-50 hour game. You people are just as bad as Fox News really.

So the few minutes are not enough to make the game sexist and pretty goddamn problematic, but enough to make it "mature", "dark" and "edgy"? And since it's only one/couple scenes in ~50 hours of game play there's no possible way gamers would complain if the roles were reversed, say, if fully clothed male NPC hit on their male avatars...

Oh, I forgot. Anders and the "bohoo Bioware neglected their straight male demographic" thead.

Plus, Fox News goes together with feminism and LGBT rights about as much as open fire and gasoline.

Also, you have the Flotsom Brothel, where the nude models are super high quality and the face models are a blurred mess on consoles. It says a lot about a company where their priorities ar more focused on naked bodies than human faces. 

The Witcher 2 is unashamedly sexist.

It's not sexist because of the universe it's in.  Clearly rape, sexual assault, brothels, women being suppressed were realities of the middle ages on which it's Eastern European fantasy is based.    Setting a game in a sexist world does not make the game itself sexist.

No.  TW2 (and Game of Thrones) are sexist because all the sex, heck even some of the **rape** is made, described and depicted to be attractive/a turn on to guys.  And I don't say that as some ugly old troll of a 'feminist', I say that as your average guy.   

You'll notice that in both TW2/AGOT, there are never any unattractive women having sex.  they are all physically perfect, and even *shaved* (which was highly unlikely to be the case in medieval times) with perfect teeth as well.    And then there's the attitude of TW2, in which (of course) your own girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all about the fact that you go to the brothel all the time to have sex with other people.

And that's just sex normally.   Rape is used SO OFTEN in TW2 as a plot device (the elf getting raped, your friend getting raped, the mages getting raped) that it seems like a cheap way out to make you feel 'angry' at the enemy because he raped the girl you liked/had sex with.
TW2 is a fantastic game, and Bioware could learn a lot from it.  But it's themes are not mature, they are the epitome of adolescence, if anything.

Modifié par Cimeas, 10 février 2013 - 01:42 .

[MissOuJ]

easygame88 wrote...

Well I agree with that but her post seems to be more about mocking the game based on a few small scenes from a very long game and dismissing it simply based on that. Which is silly.

The Witcher 2 took me 50 hours to complete and I saw only 2 scenes with any nudity in it at all. I did not see the "lesbomancy" scene since I haven't done Iorveth's path. The way people talk about this game sometimes you would think you'd see naked women at every turn in this game, which couldn't be further from the truth, unless you deliberately spend your time at the brothel. 

I know some on this board choose to hate the game simply due to some of its fans on here, which is kind of understandable but they are really missing out on an excellent title. I would rather see what all of the fuss is about, and not from a youtube video.

I'm not mocking the game, I'm mocking the people who think the Witcher series is the be all and end all of Maturity, same as the people who think that the latest Max Payne title was the best ever "realistic and gritty" game in the history of games.

I know of many female gamers who have played the Witcher and even enjoyed it. Many of these gamers have also said that the portrayal of female characters in the game makes them unconfortable. This is a valid reason to not play a game, and even hate it. There are also women who enjoy the ASoIaF series but who say that the way female characters are portrayed and treated unnerves them. I myself dropped the series ather one too many rape scenes. Still there are female fans who still read the series and enjoy female characters such as Arya and Daenerys. I myself enjoy the Supernatural series, which has so many problems with portraying female characters it's ridiculous. We acknowledge these issues - many male gamers who enjoy Witcher 2 do not.

Enjoying and liking problematic stuff is okay - not acknowledging their problematic qualities is putting your fingers in your ears and going "I can't hear you! Haters to the left!" which is not the case.

I'm not attacking the Witcher or calling for censorship, attacking the gamers who enjoy the game in general nor am I trying to get CD Projekt out of business. I'm just sick and tired of (male) gamers and gaming journalists highlighting very problematic features of a game, putting them on a pedestal and calling for more of the same "maturity", particularly in a gaming forum of a company which has done pretty amazing stuff to take its female/LGBT fanbase into consideration.

Modifié par MissOuJ, 10 février 2013 - 02:02 .

[Cimeas]

I just don't think Sex/Rape=Maturity.

I think if DA3 had a no sex/no rape rule, it might become a MORE mature game, because the writers would have to think about ways of making it mature without using rape as a shortcut.

[imbs]

Cimeas wrote...


The Witcher 2 is unashamedly sexist.

It's not sexist because of the universe it's in.  Clearly rape, sexual assault, brothels, women being suppressed were realities of the middle ages on which it's Eastern European fantasy is based.    Setting a game in a sexist world does not make the game itself sexist.

No.  TW2 (and Game of Thrones) are sexist because all the sex, heck even some of the **rape** is made, described and depicted to be attractive/a turn on to guys.  And I don't say that as some ugly old troll of a 'feminist', I say that as your average guy.   

You'll notice that in both TW2/AGOT, there are never any unattractive women having sex.  they are all physically perfect, and even *shaved* (which was highly unlikely to be the case in medieval times) with perfect teeth as well.    And then there's the attitude of TW2, in which (of course) your own girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all about the fact that you go to the brothel all the time to have sex with other people.

I am confused, it's sexist because the girls are hot? I'm sorry i did not play TW2 but is game of thrones sexist against guys because the guys having sex in it are hot? I'm sure they picked Robb Starks actor wholly for his acting ability yeah? Just a fluke that Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, Robb Stark are all way hotter in the show than they were described in the books I suppose. Do you think the game of thrones producers should have been seeking ugly girls for their sex scenes?

Could you name a male character who is ugly and is having sex in the show please. Even Tyrion is good looking and he was utterly grotesque in the books.