588 réponses à ce sujet

[BrookerT]

imbs wrote...

Cimeas wrote...


The Witcher 2 is unashamedly sexist.

It's not sexist because of the universe it's in.  Clearly rape, sexual assault, brothels, women being suppressed were realities of the middle ages on which it's Eastern European fantasy is based.    Setting a game in a sexist world does not make the game itself sexist.

No.  TW2 (and Game of Thrones) are sexist because all the sex, heck even some of the **rape** is made, described and depicted to be attractive/a turn on to guys.  And I don't say that as some ugly old troll of a 'feminist', I say that as your average guy.   

You'll notice that in both TW2/AGOT, there are never any unattractive women having sex.  they are all physically perfect, and even *shaved* (which was highly unlikely to be the case in medieval times) with perfect teeth as well.    And then there's the attitude of TW2, in which (of course) your own girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all about the fact that you go to the brothel all the time to have sex with other people.

I am confused, it's sexist because the girls are hot? I'm sorry i did not play TW2 but is game of thrones sexist against guys because the guys having sex in it are hot? I'm sure they picked Robb Starks actor wholly for his acting ability yeah? Just a fluke that Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, Robb Stark are all way hotter in the show than they were described in the books I suppose. Do you think the game of thrones producers should have been seeking ugly girls for their sex scenes?

Could you name a male character who is ugly and is having sex in the show please. Even Tyrion is good looking and he was utterly grotesque in the books.

You missed the point of Cimeas post utterly. It's not that there hot, it's that there objectified to the point where the only notable thing about them is that they are physically attractive. Tyrion being attractive is irrelevent or a slight bonus, as his character is deep enough for his attractivness to not be the only notable thing about him. 

[FodoSatoru]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Darth Krytie wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Another make it like the Witcher 2 bent to a story. Meh.

Every single time someone puts down DA in favour of TW2, my desire to play TW2 lessens.

TW2 is really overrated IMO. It tries so hard to be mature and intense but it feels like teenagers made it IMO. The tone is so... horny teenager/pseudo-cool, like a Paul W. S. Anderson movie.

Sure, because it is the favourite teenagers' pastime activity - pondering on consequences of their choices (no one knows better than a teenager how small things can have a big impact!), discussing politics (e.g. real politik vs. sentimentalism) and complex moral dilemmas (e.g. a personal matter vs. the good of an entire nation). If it wasn't so with those cerebral teenagers today, I would suspect that you have been distracted by bare breasts and have missed a couple of things in TW2.

[Dutchess]

Sorceresses in TW use magic to make themself look pretty, arguing against Philippa's attractiveness is rather pointless. Her role is far more than standing around and being pretty. She significantly influences the state of events in TW2.

As for the prostitutes... isn't it some sort of job requirement to look decent enough for men to want to pay to have sex with you? Anyway, Margot, the madam in Flotsam, didn't look that pretty. She was already middle-aged and tried to hide that with heavy blusher. And guess what? She did have a personality and was involved in events beyond the brothel. In Roche's path a prostitute is involved in a conspiracy against king Henselt, and you can pay the madam for information.

And what rape is depicted as something positive in TW? I know of two instances of rape, and both are interpreted as wrong, disgusting, and enrage the characters that find out about it.

[Nashimura]

Im british and i still found Male Hawkes accent weird...or just the emphasis he puts in certain words, bar TotalBiscuit nobody really talks like that here.

[Nexpeed]

I'd like to see a DA3 mtv teaser launch using this nice song:

[Renmiri1]

Ah the hetero male privilege and it's defenders....

Look, you like TW2 and you should, it was made for you. It wasn't made for me, a female, and it wasn't made for anyone that is not a young, hetero male. So is no surprise we don't like it.

There is nothing wrong with that. Is just natural. What is wrong is trying to convince me that TW2 is a game made for all audiences, like DA is. It is not. And anyone that promotes getting DA more like TW2 is advocating for a narrower sexist game. Which we don't want.

DA is inclusive and promotes equality. It would be a much poorer game if it was like TW2.

[FodoSatoru]

Cimeas wrote...

The Witcher 2 is unashamedly sexist.

It's not sexist because of the universe it's in.  Clearly rape, sexual assault, brothels, women being suppressed were realities of the middle ages on which it's Eastern European fantasy is based.    Setting a game in a sexist world does not make the game itself sexist.

No.  TW2 (and Game of Thrones) are sexist because all the sex, heck even some of the **rape** is made, described and depicted to be attractive/a turn on to guys.  And I don't say that as some ugly old troll of a 'feminist', I say that as your average guy.   

You'll notice that in both TW2/AGOT, there are never any unattractive women having sex.  they are all physically perfect, and even *shaved* (which was highly unlikely to be the case in medieval times) with perfect teeth as well.    And then there's the attitude of TW2, in which (of course) your own girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all about the fact that you go to the brothel all the time to have sex with other people.

And that's just sex normally.   Rape is used SO OFTEN in TW2 as a plot device (the elf getting raped, your friend getting raped, the mages getting raped) that it seems like a cheap way out to make you feel 'angry' at the enemy because he raped the girl you liked/had sex with.
TW2 is a fantastic game, and Bioware could learn a lot from it.  But it's themes are not mature, they are the epitome of adolescence, if anything.

1. Where in TW2 is rape depicted intentionally as a "turn-on" for males? I was repulsed every time a rape / rape attempt was shown on-screen.
2. And where in a BioWare game can you have sex with an unattractive female? As for shaving, even in ancient Rome women shaved their pubic hair using sharpened seashells. Sorceresses can use magic to make themselves look pretty, so depilation probably isn't above their capabilities either. Also, it seems to be a myth that people in Middle Ages had "bad" teeth. They didn't eat so much sugar to feed bacteria causing caries, as we are doing today.
3. How is three times "SO OFTEN"? Speaking of the reality of Middle Ages - it is unusual for a group of women overpowered by common soldiers not to get raped, even in modern times (I'm reffering to the sorceresses' situation). As for other two situations - men involved were clearly twisted bastards, so it is not surprising or out of place, rather expected. And in both cases the rape was clearly added to make it harder to decide to skip killing them to do something more urgent / for their importance in the greater scheme of things. Also, it isn't implied that Triss' got raped.

Modifié par FodoSatoru, 10 février 2013 - 03:55 .

[imbs]

BrookerT wrote...

imbs wrote...

Cimeas wrote...


The Witcher 2 is unashamedly sexist.

It's not sexist because of the universe it's in.  Clearly rape, sexual assault, brothels, women being suppressed were realities of the middle ages on which it's Eastern European fantasy is based.    Setting a game in a sexist world does not make the game itself sexist.

No.  TW2 (and Game of Thrones) are sexist because all the sex, heck even some of the **rape** is made, described and depicted to be attractive/a turn on to guys.  And I don't say that as some ugly old troll of a 'feminist', I say that as your average guy.   

You'll notice that in both TW2/AGOT, there are never any unattractive women having sex.  they are all physically perfect, and even *shaved* (which was highly unlikely to be the case in medieval times) with perfect teeth as well.    And then there's the attitude of TW2, in which (of course) your own girlfriend doesn't seem to care at all about the fact that you go to the brothel all the time to have sex with other people.

I am confused, it's sexist because the girls are hot? I'm sorry i did not play TW2 but is game of thrones sexist against guys because the guys having sex in it are hot? I'm sure they picked Robb Starks actor wholly for his acting ability yeah? Just a fluke that Jon Snow, Theon Greyjoy, Robb Stark are all way hotter in the show than they were described in the books I suppose. Do you think the game of thrones producers should have been seeking ugly girls for their sex scenes?

Could you name a male character who is ugly and is having sex in the show please. Even Tyrion is good looking and he was utterly grotesque in the books.

You missed the point of Cimeas post utterly. It's not that there hot, it's that there objectified to the point where the only notable thing about them is that they are physically attractive. Tyrion being attractive is irrelevent or a slight bonus, as his character is deep enough for his attractivness to not be the only notable thing about him. 

Still confused. You guys don't like that the prostitutes were attractive? I can't think of any other characters who offered nothing (the prostitutes didnt even offer nothing, but closest I could think of) to the story aside from the girl Theon has sex with on the boat en route to the iron islands... except oh yeah she wasn't "hot".

People see sexism in everything these days chill out i m o. Gratuitous sex scenes does not necessarily equal sexism.

Modifié par imbs, 10 février 2013 - 03:10 .

[Dutchess]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Ah the hetero male privilege and it's defenders....

Look, you like TW2 and you should, it was made for you. It wasn't made for me, a female, and it wasn't made for anyone that is not a young, hetero male.

I'm not a man, thank you very much.

[imbs]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Ah the hetero male privilege and it's defenders....

Look, you like TW2 and you should, it was made for you. It wasn't made for me, a female, and it wasn't made for anyone that is not a young, hetero male. So is no surprise we don't like it.

There is nothing wrong with that. Is just natural. What is wrong is trying to convince me that TW2 is a game made for all audiences, like DA is. It is not. And anyone that promotes getting DA more like TW2 is advocating for a narrower sexist game. Which we don't want.

DA is inclusive and promotes equality. It would be a much poorer game if it was like TW2.

I'm sure TW2 offered nothing but sexism. I'm sure when anyone "promotes getting DA more like TW2" they are actually just looking for more sexism, more sex scenes.

let's just ignore the fact that majority of gamers consider TW2 the superior game or rather, let's just assume they loved it so much purely because they were hetero white males, the tyrants of the universe.

Disclaimer; I havent even really played TW2 I cant get past the first few scenes when I turn it on, doesn't take away from the idea that your post is flawed in oh so many ways.

[Thetford]

Wasn't the idea of beautiful women in the middle ages fat, pale with bad teeth, due to their fathers being able to afford copious amounts of food, including by the Tudor period, sugar, as well as keeping them in the house, and off the farm fields (this changed with the Industrial revolution and the poor worked inside in factories and the wealthy went galavanting across Europe to soak up the sun and bring back neo classical architecture), but alas, I digress.

The question is, is why you hold this guy's opinion so highly, and debate it to such to this extent, yet do not do so for each other's opinions?

[nightscrawl]

Thetford wrote...

The question is, is why you hold this guy's opinion so highly, and debate it to such to this extent, yet do not do so for each other's opinions?

The unfortunate reality is that being published on a site like PC Gamer gives it legitimacy. It doesn't matter if the author is full of crap (subjective of course) or if the "article" has errors in it as there was no editorial oversight. People take things like that, pass them around, link to them, and cite their quotes as if it were a legitimate news piece, or somehow representative of all gamers with the "we," when it is not.

I cringe whenever I see someone link to an outside source article on these forums. They are all utter trash, unsourced rumor, or opinion passed off as real journalism. It's pathetic. Some months back someone linked to an article claiming we would get dragon mounts in DA3 like it was some real thing because it was on a website!

[Noviere]

I find it hard to take the article seriously, considering the source. PC Gamer gave DA2 a 94, and described the combat as "The best RPG combat ever." The article is full of inaccuracies, and reads like hyperbolic forum nonsense. DA2 definitely deserves criticism, but shouldn't journalists at least aspire to some level of professionalism?

[Captain Crash]

Makes some good points. Strongly disagree with these two though

No More Deep Roads. - The Deep Roads are awesome. They could be made more open and compelling though since all you fight is Darkspawn and Golems.

No Main Character Voice. - This will be a massive step backwards!

[Medhia Nox]

@Slimgrin: What is low fantasy then (to you)?

And D&D must be ultra fantasy - because if you think D&D and Tolkien are the same levels of magical presence - you've either never read Tolkien's works or never played D&D.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 10 février 2013 - 04:08 .

[TheChris92]

Nicholas Boulton & Jo Wyatt must be very sad to hear that they are apparently bad at speaking their own language with their accents.

[duckley]

While I personally agreed with some of his points ... I also disagreed with many. Hope Bioware doesnt pay too much attention to this article LOL.

[duckley]

oh - and I vehemently disagree with the no voiced protagonist

Modifié par duckley, 10 février 2013 - 04:22 .

[Blazomancer]

TheChris92 wrote...

Nicholas Boulton & Jo Wyatt must be very sad to hear that they are apparently bad at speaking their own language with their accents.

[Siegdrifa]

imbs wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Ah the hetero male privilege and it's defenders....

Look, you like TW2 and you should, it was made for you. It wasn't made for me, a female, and it wasn't made for anyone that is not a young, hetero male. So is no surprise we don't like it.

There is nothing wrong with that. Is just natural. What is wrong is trying to convince me that TW2 is a game made for all audiences, like DA is. It is not. And anyone that promotes getting DA more like TW2 is advocating for a narrower sexist game. Which we don't want.

DA is inclusive and promotes equality. It would be a much poorer game if it was like TW2.

I'm sure TW2 offered nothing but sexism. I'm sure when anyone "promotes getting DA more like TW2" they are actually just looking for more sexism, more sex scenes.

let's just ignore the fact that majority of gamers consider TW2 the superior game or rather, let's just assume they loved it so much purely because they were hetero white males, the tyrants of the universe.

Disclaimer; I havent even really played TW2 I cant get past the first few scenes when I turn it on, doesn't take away from the idea that your post is flawed in oh so many ways.

Well, i'd like to point that you are not forced to be a sex maniac in TW2... the game play juste fine even as a faithfull Geralt, and Geralt can behave like a gentleman toward the feminine gender.

When i played TW1 (ah god i had so much trouble to get into this game), i admit that a some point, being faithfull to one character meant that one quest couldn't be achieved, but it wasn't a quest needed to advance the main story if i remember right.

[Thetford]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@Slimgrin: What is low fantasy then (to you)?

And D&D must be ultra fantasy - because if you think D&D and Tolkien are the same levels of magical presence - you've either never read Tolkien's works or never played D&D.

I thought it was described that LotR was a High Fantasy story in a Low Fantasy setting? Having not read the books, or played D&D, I can't really say anything, it is a genuine query. 

[AlexJK]

LotR is high fantasy, not sure what else it would be!

[philippe willaume]

renjility wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Ah the hetero male privilege and it's defenders....

Look, you like TW2 and you should, it was made for you. It wasn't made for me, a female, and it wasn't made for anyone that is not a young, hetero male.

I'm not a man, thank you very much.

I am one, (man that is) albeit not that young anymore.

I can see what Ren is getting at though. I fell the same about the serie Supernatural. 
about the Witcher i read the books so, i see the game through the same glasses, hence I have a different take on that one.
But to get back on topic, you can stay faithfull to Y or T and the game cater for that.
and in the witcher1, you are getting the bollocking you deserve from the party that you do not choose.
and if i remember well, a stern warning about philandering should you have been inclined to that before.

and i think that is what the witcher can bring, consequence that have an effect, and DA:0 was quite good at that as well.

phil

Modifié par philippe willaume, 10 février 2013 - 05:01 .

[Raging_Pulse]

Nashimura wrote...

Im british and i still found Male Hawkes accent weird...or just the emphasis he puts in certain words, bar TotalBiscuit nobody really talks like that here.

Man, am I glad to hear this, I thought I was the only one. I mean, I'm not a native english speaker, and have nothing against his VO actor personally, but the way he emphesizes certain words, as you said, and *dat accent*... Ugh! Plus, he doesn't sound like a twenty-something year old dude at all IMO.  I'm playing male Hawke right now actually, but in future and for all intents and purposes, FemHawke is my canon Hawke.