588 réponses à ce sujet

[bleetman]

Eh. There's a few points I agree with, but not by any virtue of the article being remotely compelling or articulate. I've seen more well rounded, justified arguments against having a voiced protaganist by people on this apparently toxic forums than

by them not sounding like a complete ****/****ette

Really? I mean, really, PC Gamer? I appreciate that anyone with any genuine talent for writing left years ago, but come on. 'My character sounded like a ****'? What is this crap?

[nightscrawl]

According to wikipedia, high vs low fantasy is mainly about the setting.

High fantasy is defined as fantasy fiction set in an alternative, entirely fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the real, or "primary" world. The secondary world is usually internally consistent but its rules differ in some way(s) from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary, or "real" world, or a rational and familiar fictional world, with the inclusion of magical elements.

...

* A setting in which the primary [real] world does not exist - (e.g. The Lord of The Rings, The Prydain Chronicles, The Inheritance Cycle, The Edge Chronicles, The Wheel of Time, A Song of Ice and Fire, Malazan Book of the Fallen, The Name of the Wind)

* The secondary/parallel world(s) is entered through a portal from the primary world - (e.g. Alice in Wonderland, The Chronicles of Narnia, His Dark Materials, Xanth, The Dark Tower, Avantasia)

* A distinct world-within-a-world as part of the primary world - (e.g. Gods of Pegana, Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel)

According to that, Dragon Age is certainly high fantasy.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 10 février 2013 - 05:14 .

[zyntifox]

Medhia Nox wrote...

There's a handful I agree/disagree with strongly - the rest seem way too subjective.

Strongly Agree:

- Story And Game Integration - I really felt DA 2 dropped the ball here.
- No Main Character Voice - but I have zero illusions that this is seen as anything more than "going backward"
- Jobs For The Boys And Girls - everyone should be relevant. Not just a toady for the Main Protagonist. Of course - I want an Ensemble Protagonist cast - but I won't get it for years yet I wager.
- Fluid Politics - could hardly be leveled against just Bioware games. This is rare - period. But I like.
- Built For PC - sorry folks, I'm "on of those" people.

Strongly Disagree:

- Open World, Open Heart - not for a Bioware narrative.
- No More Deep Roads - the Deep Roads are fine. What might need some work is time spent in any one location (like The Fade - which is also a point of complaint for many).
- Party Customization - so long as they're Bioware's NPCs I couldn't care less about them. Just give them low-mid-high level graphics... and let the developers worry about their NPCs.

Agree with all of this. Even the "Build for PC" despite being a PS3-player.

[Masha Potato]

More gaming journalism

[Wulfram]

That definition would seem to count Conan as "High Fantasy", which seems really wrong to me.

[LPPrince]

Eh, for me personally I've always determined high vs low fantasy as being based on how much magic and otherworldly elements are based around the story and whats going on.

So A Song of Ice and Fire would be low fantasy(based mainly on politics) though there is magic and other such things involved(much less so), while high fantasy would be Harry Potter, where its pretty much entirely based on magic and magic is everywhere.

[AlanC9]

LPPrince wrote...

Eh, for me personally I've always determined high vs low fantasy as being based on how much magic and otherworldly elements are based around the story and whats going on.

So A Song of Ice and Fire would be low fantasy(based mainly on politics) though there is magic and other such things involved(much less so), while high fantasy would be Harry Potter, where its pretty much entirely based on magic and magic is everywhere.

I've seen a lot of other people use the terms your way.

TVTropes seems closer to your reading. It also handles Wulfram's problem.

Modifié par AlanC9, 10 février 2013 - 05:32 .

[Lennard Testarossa]

Is it just me or does all criticism of TW2 on this board come from butthurt gender studies majors?

[Renmiri1]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Is it just me or does all criticism of TW2 on this board come from butthurt gender studies majors?

It is more like the fanboys can't bear any criticism of their beloved TW 1 and 2.

I don't dislike ALL of TW2 but I do dislike the sexism. Alas, saying anything against the game is considered "butthurt" while refusing to admit even the mildest criticism of your passion is not "butthurt" at all

Go figure. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 10 février 2013 - 06:04 .

[BrookerT]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Is it just me or does all criticism of TW2 on this board come from butthurt gender studies majors?

It is more like the fanboys can't bear any criticism of their beloved TW 1 and 2.

I don't dislike ALL of TW2 but I do dislike the sexism. Alas, saying anything against the game is considered "butthurt" while refusing to admit even the mildest criticism of your passion is not "butthurt" at all

Go figure. 

Yeah, complimenting TW2's graphics, gameplay, choices, aesthic design is fine. I really love some parts of TW2, it's just whenever someone calls it mature, I'm like <_<

[Lennard Testarossa]

Renmiri1 wrote...
It is more like the fanboys can't bear any criticism of their beloved TW 1 and 2.

Actual criticism would be fine, but everything I've read so far can be summed up as "muh sexism". The only female gamer I know personally loved that lesbomancy scene. You people need to learn how to not be offended all the time.

[Nerevar-as]

BrookerT wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Is it just me or does all criticism of TW2 on this board come from butthurt gender studies majors?

It is more like the fanboys can't bear any criticism of their beloved TW 1 and 2.

I don't dislike ALL of TW2 but I do dislike the sexism. Alas, saying anything against the game is considered "butthurt" while refusing to admit even the mildest criticism of your passion is not "butthurt" at all

Go figure. 

Yeah, complimenting TW2's graphics, gameplay, choices, aesthic design is fine. I really love some parts of TW2, it's just whenever someone calls it mature, I'm like <_<

Let´s see... no clear good side, ambiguous characters, political issues, racism,... seem like mature themes to me. If you can´t see beyond the sex, then sorry for you. I also advice you to stay away from HBO series.

[Medhia Nox]

@Wulfram: Conan is "officially" considered sword and sorcery.

But since both it, and Middle Earth, are placed in a "rational and familiar fictional world" I believe them both to be low fantasy.

D&D is probably the highest level of magic - with something like Planescape taking the cake. 

Lyrium is a HUGE conflict with low fantasy. So are Wardens - the abundance of magic - the Templars - golems - and several other elements.  Darkspawn - I'd actually argue - are not in conflict.  But an entire mage empire is.

Yes - magic exists in a place like Middle Earth - but it's possessed by five wizards and a Dark Lord - presumably the elves don't even practice "magic" per se. Magic isn't easy (see Pew Pew blaster spells) - it isn't common (a mage on every street corner).

Same with Conan - though admittedly it is "more present" than Middle Earth.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 10 février 2013 - 06:29 .

[Heimdall]

I don't like TW because of the predefined character. Just not be cup of tea.

[Nerevar-as]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I don't like TW because of the predefined character. Just not be cup of tea.

Can you explain why? I´ve never been able to understand that. I have the opposite problem, the blanker a slate the PC is, the more trouble I have indetifying with him/her. Can´t project anything onto a blank board.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Lord Aesir wrote...

I don't like TW because of the predefined character. Just not be cup of tea.

Yeah, I have a bit of the same issue. I want to try the game, because everyone keeps saying how good it is, but having read a book I have no wish to be lumbered with that character. There is no way of escaping that, right?

[Renmiri1]

Lennard Testarossa wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...
It is more like the fanboys can't bear any criticism of their beloved TW 1 and 2.

Actual criticism would be fine, but everything I've read so far can be summed up as "muh sexism". The only female gamer I know personally loved that lesbomancy scene. You people need to learn how to not be offended all the time.

There is so much win in this sentence...

No wonder you can't even see the sexism right in front of your eyes 

Nerevar-as wrote...

Let´s see... no clear good side, ambiguous characters, political issues, racism,... seem like mature themes to me. If you can´t see beyond the sex, then sorry for you. I also advice you to stay away from HBO series.

Ah another one "la-la-la I don't want to hear anything negative about my game. STFU."

Maybe you should stay clear of gaming forums, criticism is bound to happen, you know ? If you have such a thin skin for it, avoid reading anything game related 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 10 février 2013 - 06:39 .

[Nerevar-as]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Ah another one "la-la-la I don't want to hear anything negative about my game. STFU."

Maybe you should stay clear of gaming forums, criticism is bound to happen, you know ? If you have such a thin skin for it, avoid reading anything game related 

I was just offering a counter-argument. It takes a ME3 ending level disaster for a game, or someone´s opinion about it, to offend me. I also went WTF is this at how some cards were "awarded" in TW1. But here you just seem to have a problem with human nudity and showing sex (not talking about you, but many also seem to not distiguish between eroticism and porn).

[Twisted Path]

Arguing over what counts as High or Low or Dark or Epic Fantasy is slightly more pointless than arguing about what counts as Hard Science Fiction. The definition of a subgenre is always very up for interpretation.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Wiki

/thread.

[Dorrieb]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
...some of the strange stuff like "bad" British accents (that a genuine British accent is a "bad" accent reminds me of those that thought that an actual french speaking Corinne was a "bad french accent")

Allan, not to contradict that Nicholas Boulton is genuinely British, but the author of the article, Richard Cobbett, is also British and lives in England, where people do have an ear for a British accent. Also, there is such a thing as respect for one's profession. Forum posters being rude and disrespectful is nothing new, but when someone with an official Bioware avatar dismisses a professional piece as 'indiscernable from other fan feedback' it probably goes a long way toward explaining why these forums are often such a horrible place. You don't have to like the article, but I'm very disappointed to see you join in the stoning. 

[AlexJK]

Dorrieb wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
...some of the strange stuff like "bad" British accents (that a genuine British accent is a "bad" accent reminds me of those that thought that an actual french speaking Corinne was a "bad french accent")

Allan, not to contradict that Nicholas Boulton is genuinely British, but the author of the article, Richard Cobbett, is also British and lives in England, where people do have an ear for a British accent.

What difference does that make? The voice actor is still British, using a "real" British accent. What response would you like from Bioware other than to tell the truth?

Also, there is such a thing as respect for one's profession. Forum posters being rude and disrespectful is nothing new, but when someone with an official Bioware avatar dismisses a professional piece as 'indiscernable from other fan feedback' it probably goes a long way toward explaining why these forums are often such a horrible place. You don't have to like the article, but I'm very disappointed to see you join in the stoning.

Nobody threw any stones, did they? You're the one who posted the article, did you not want anyone from Bioware to comment, or if they did then just to agree?

[imbs]

AlexJK wrote...

What difference does that make? The voice actor is still British, using a "real" British accent. What response would you like from Bioware other than to tell the truth?

From my extremely limited experiences listening to the male Hawke I'd say people are not articulating the right problems with the voice there. I don't think his accent is too bad, I do however think the guy doing the voices does a shoddy job sometimes. He emphasises the wrong/weird words a lot and comes off as just wooden sometimes as well.

Once again just saying I've only ever played FemHawke (who i had no complaints with voice actor wise, I thought she was 20*better than Femshephard) so take this opinion with a grain of salt.