176 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

The Sir Tendeth wrote...

I would think that a match would have vets leveraging speed run techniques sans rockets.

And with some reassurance that no insta-kill would take place. And enemies wouldn't stomp at risk of their own life. So if they are engaged they would focus on the attacker instead of being hell bent on executing a player.

The offset would be twice the enemies to bring down, with bosses more damage resistant, and still able to bring you to the floor instead of insta-kill. Plus one rocket and you have to be revived, with medi only extending your revive window.

If you can think of how to make it risky but not leave players on the sideline doing nothing, throw your ideas in.

In my opinion the best way to do it was always to add additional mechanics and get rid of things like sync kills and staggerlocking.

Additional mechanics would include things such as the Banshee getting a new ability that throws a Stasis bubble at the target, which becomes active after 2 seconds(giving you some time to move out of it), Cerberus Engineers laying down Shield Pylons behind cover, etc.

Things that actively punish you if you do not pay attention to them, but don't actually remove you entirely for the rest of the game(just rest of the wave at worst).

Though at this point both of us are talking about things that are likely to be out of the scope of the DLC we're getting.

[The Sir Tendeth]

I agree new mechanics that require a broader range of skills to cope with, and constant attention from a team would be great. I also agree that this update isn't likely to include any. Infant it may never be likely if its to outside the box.

With that said, I think we should be putting these ideas out there. If the position wasn't play better and deal with it from the get go. A lot of issues may have been addressed in better ways.

Bioware has been great at listening, as well as addressing many of the issues without having to have feedback.

But that doesn't mean that things couldn't be better now than they are.

Just the fact that you and Peddro have done testing has improved the game in my opinion. And it wouldn't surprise me if it has impacted changes made by Bioware.

Yeah we can't always have kumbaya conversations, but some positive brainstorming on the games glitches, continuity issues, or human unfriendly design decisions, wouldn't hurt either. (I know that this happens now- just sayin it in hope that it would happen more frequently.

Modifié par The Sir Tendeth, 12 février 2013 - 08:45 .

[The Sir Tendeth]

What if the spawn budget increased every time you went down. The current mechanics could remain with the possible reduction of medi- which in and of itself could be limited to once per wave.

and I like the banshee idea. In some ways I think the enemies could use a little more attention, vs the kits. It's close but they could be adjusted more and I think players would enjoy it more if more enemies were added with fewer kits added.

the last round was week after week of kits. Though kits a probably easier than making a pyro unit that throws up a shield, or soldiers with tech armor like brutes that damages you, or engineers that repair primes

Modifié par The Sir Tendeth, 11 février 2013 - 07:46 .

[PaperAlien]

At the very least, disable enemies from attacking when they're invincible.

[ASmoothCriminalx]

It isn't immunity.. the DR is only so high that you can't damage enemies for maybe a second after they spawn. And the mooks still get staggered with this DR so it's not like you have no chance if you rush into a spawn of marauders.

I can say this is not even a minor problem for me. In the same way you wait 2 seconds to ML an enemy on Target Obj, you wait to engage enemies fresh out of spawn.

*edit*..I guess the topic of conversation has shifted a bit.

Modifié par ASmoothCriminalx, 11 février 2013 - 08:09 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Air Quotes wrote...

Why do they get in the first place? Enemies cheat like hell, spawn behind you, spawn on top of you and they shoot the instant they spawn. Why are they also completely immune to damage for like 3 seconds? 

I know that Centurion is going to jet boot up that ledge, I line up a perfect Javelin headshot - boom, and nothing. He then healtgates me in a microsecond. WTF?  

Because this game has problems, like that one cousin we keep in the closet and don't like to talk about.

[Bolo Xia]

Air Quotes wrote...

ASmoothCriminalx wrote...

It isn't immunity.. the DR is only so high that you can't damage enemies for maybe a second after they spawn. And the mooks still get staggered with this DR so it's not like you have no chance if you rush into a spawn of marauders.

I can say this is not even a minor problem for me. In the same way you wait 2 seconds to ML an enemy on Target Obj, you wait to engage enemies fresh out of spawn.

*edit*..I guess the topic of conversation has shifted a bit.

 

It's not a problem when they spawn far away from you. It is a huge problem when they spawn on top of you. Which they do often now. 

So either fix the spawns or remove the DR/immunity. 

i agree with Air Quotes here.

sometimes i put a dot on enemies or leave a pet drone then run for a better piece of cover/defensible location, just to have an enemy die and spawn a nearly invincible clone 5 feet infront of my face.

if im not "hurt" then im usually fine, but if shields are down on gold/plat then im usually downed without a chance.
harder to describe the scenerio exactly, but most of you know what im talking about im sure.

im also describing what happens in solo's all the time, but it still happens often enough in a full team.

anyway, im not sure how to make the game perfect, but just throwing my opinion in here.

i also like to nuke spawns, but i dont base my whole game on it, so if that makes me terrible or unskilled then so be it. 

[I_pity_the_fool]

Hmm. Perhaps a workable solution would be to give the enemy spawn DR only when four or more of them spawn simultaneously. That way, you nuking spawns would be as difficult (lol) as it is now, but you wouldn't have ravagers popping up behind you mid-way through a wave that you found difficult to kill (I've never had this problem personally, but it seems to be a thing).

More importantly, enemies who've just spawned shouldn't be able to sync kill for a brief period of time.

[HolyAvenger]

The more I see speedrun vids, the less I'm convinced spawn immunity exists.

Where is it here? D_Nought immediately one-shots an Engineer upon spawning.

[GallowsPole]

If you're going to remove DR, then let them spawn spontaneously anywhere. One of the reasons I find speed runs lame is the ability to control spawn points. Give the enemy the ability to break up the team.

[Bleachrude]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The more I see speedrun vids, the less I'm convinced spawn immunity exists.

Where is it here? D_Nought immediately one-shots an Engineer upon spawning.

How common _IS_ spawn's simply appearing right on top of you?  That speed run list above shows perfect control of spawn spots....

My understanding was that spawns won't occur directly in the area a player is, unless theyr is no other place to spawn...

Personally, never had this happen to me...closest is running INTO a spawn spot or seeing a spawn spot form...

[GallowsPole]

Bleachrude wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

The more I see speedrun vids, the less I'm convinced spawn immunity exists.

Where is it here? D_Nought immediately one-shots an Engineer upon spawning.

How common _IS_ spawn's simply appearing right on top of you?  That speed run list above shows perfect control of spawn spots....

My understanding was that spawns won't occur directly in the area a player is, unless theyr is no other place to spawn...

Personally, never had this happen to me...closest is running INTO a spawn spot or seeing a spawn spot form...

My understanding is that there needs to be LOS between players and spawn. Take Jade for instance, where they can spawn on top of your head on the lower tier there out of the rafters. Or on Reactor. Ive had them land on my head already. I dont find they spawn outside of the normal spawn areas though, so they are easy to control and to avoid. Just sometimes the battle pushes you near or in these zones.

Id love to see them spawn right on the EZ on wave 11 personally.

Modifié par GallowsPole, 11 février 2013 - 11:33 .

[Bleachrude]

Isn't reactor's above the crowd spawn site similar to Giant and White in that the enemies are spawning in one spot off-screen, but can move in these areas but then drop down right on top of you?

Giant for example, the walkway high above the main area in the upper level, you can see spawns running from one end and then dropping down right in the middle...

re: new mechanics
Depends on how big reckoning is...We did get two new "mechanics" in the collector web and the seeker swarms...of course, people complain about both of those new mechanics too so any new mechanic would cause people to complain...

[GallowsPole]

Bleachrude wrote...

Isn't reactor's above the crowd spawn site similar to Giant and White in that the enemies are spawning in one spot off-screen, but can move in these areas but then drop down right on top of you?

Giant for example, the walkway high above the main area in the upper level, you can see spawns running from one end and then dropping down right in the middle...

re: new mechanics
Depends on how big reckoning is...We did get two new "mechanics" in the collector web and the seeker swarms...of course, people complain about both of those new mechanics too so any new mechanic would cause people to complain...

Yeah Giant is another one cause they drop from the top. Same as White too from the walkway up top. Even on Reactor too from the ledge where they sometimes get stuck. I wouldnt count these as LOS though. At least IMO. I know you can 'see' them so Im talking from a programming standpoint.

[Wolfsbladex]

Ziegrif wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Such as the fact that no enemy in the game actually has weapon immunity =P

Y'know they should add one.
A boss of sorts.
This giant looming killing machine that's immune to everything and has a time limit and the team has to survive for 5 minutes against it and it's onslaught.

So in other words run across the map to avoid the immortal object or better yet, run around in circles inside a building for 5 minutes doing nothing. & you think that's challenging or fun? Not judging man just saying lol. 

[GallowsPole]

Wolfsbladex wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Such as the fact that no enemy in the game actually has weapon immunity =P

Y'know they should add one.
A boss of sorts.
This giant looming killing machine that's immune to everything and has a time limit and the team has to survive for 5 minutes against it and it's onslaught.

So in other words run across the map to avoid the immortal object or better yet, run around in circles inside a building for 5 minutes doing nothing. & you think that's challenging or fun? Not judging man just saying lol. 

Supposedly they have this already, though Ive never seen it. The illusive on-host Phantom.

[Wolfsbladex]

Ziegrif wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...
-snip- (need space)

Hyperbole.

Also didn't you just describe the enemies in horror games?
Can't kill them, they kill you real fast, all you really can do is run. Were going towards dead space one difficulty spike at a time WOOOOOH!!
Pyramid head comes to mind.

I actually think games have gotten steadily worse since the early 2000s.
Oh and sweeping generalization is bad mkay?

*ahem* Action/RPG/Squad-based co-op =/= survival horror. Can't compare Bananas to Cabbage & say they're just alike. 

[Charaxan]

Spawn immunity is the same as "geth added grenades" for campers : to stop the "clever use of game mechanics" such as speedrun spawn control.

The technique corrupt the idea of the game and make it a blasting grenades/missile game.

A lot of platinum level player would not have any chance without this technique. Firebase glacier is their friend.

And paradoxally, they where the first to blame the campers because "you know, you must face the ennemy..."

Easily done when known where and when the whole pack of ennemy will spawn...

Actually the protection is necessary and should be longer.

[Wolfsbladex]

megabeast37215 wrote...

What should be removed? Air Quotes posting priviledges...

I swear you b1tch more than anyone on BSN.

Hey man, AQ makes good points (at the cost of tact) 

[Wolfsbladex]

JAMiAM wrote...

Checks calendar. New day. Checks BSN. New Air Quotes whine thread. Notes perfect correlation over the last 6 months. Throws away calendar, as it's completely redundant so long as BSN and Air Quotes continue their coexistence.

You seriously keep tabs on AQ?

[Wolfsbladex]

Charaxan wrote...

Spawn immunity is the same as "geth added grenades" for campers : to stop the "clever use of game mechanics" such as speedrun spawn control.

The technique corrupt the idea of the game and make it a blasting grenades/missile game.

A lot of platinum level player would not have any chance without this technique. Firebase glacier is their friend.

And paradoxally, they where the first to blame the campers because "you know, you must face the ennemy..."

Easily done when known where and when the whole pack of ennemy will spawn...

Actually the protection is necessary and should be longer.

Why not. Something like that would mean I'd get revival immunity & the person I revive either A: Immediately gets up with immunity frames 3 seconds AFTER being able to move, or B: Attacks don't phase while getting up & once up enemies within 2-3 meters suffer knockback/knockdown. 

[Dracian]

HolyAvenger wrote...

The more I see speedrun vids, the less I'm convinced spawn immunity exists.

Where is it here? D_Nought immediately one-shots an Engineer upon spawning.

GI-Javelin with Phasic Rounds. Add a rail amp III and an operative package and you can OSK a Marauder on Platinum without even having to score a headshot...

And btw, /signed.

[HolyAvenger]

Dracian wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

The more I see speedrun vids, the less I'm convinced spawn immunity exists.

Where is it here? D_Nought immediately one-shots an Engineer upon spawning.

GI-Javelin with Phasic Rounds. Add a rail amp III and an operative package and you can OSK a Marauder on Platinum without even having to score a headshot...

And btw, /signed.

So where's the spawn immunity then?