239 réponses à ce sujet

[ReallyRue]

There is a big difference between intelligence and common sense.
I think Merrill is intelligent, but she doesn't have a lot of common sense, which also leads to some of her more Cloud-cuckoolander comments.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Its hard to misunderstand a moron, mind you she's still not as bad as Anders.

Merrill isn't a moron, she is a Dalish elf who has no experience with human society. It's an example of culture shock, not stupidity. She also uses dry humor, which some characters don't recognize:

Anders: Do the Dalish ever have fancy parties? I always imagined they celebrated most big occasions by eating mushrooms and acorns. And maybe dancing naked around a campfire.

Merrill: You know, I was wondering when the naked dancing was going to start. And the human sacrifice. I mean, you just can't throw a decent party without kidnapping a human child and offering her entrails to the sky gods.

Anders: Really?

Merrill: No.

Some people also think Merrill is a moron for not sharing the Andrastian view of Spirits and Demons, but that is a difference of religious views:

Anders: Maybe you don't really understand the difference between spirits and demons.

Merrill: Did I ask you?

Anders: Spirits were the first children of the Maker, but He turned his back on them to dote on His mortal creations. The ones who resented this became demons, driven to take everything mortals had and gain back the Maker's favor.

Merrill: Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative.

She was almost possessed by a demon, everyone told her it would happen even Anders who was an abomination himself told her it would happen, but would she listen. Not only was she a moron, she went out of her way to continue being a moron.

[LobselVith8]

ruairi46 wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

...
We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative. 

 
Imo Sebastion is smarter than a bloodmage who is crazed by a mirror and is the reason of the demise of her entire clan.

You mean a person who studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard in trying to restore radically advanced technology that could have changed things irrevocably for the People across Thedas? And blaming Merrill because the members of the Sabrae clan can attempt to murder her in cold blood is more than a little ridiculous.

[Stella-Arc]

I hope we can see her as a cameo...wearing a bandana.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

ruairi46 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

...
We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative.

 
Imo Sebastion is smarter than a bloodmage who is crazed by a mirror and is the reason of the demise of her entire clan.

I never wrote that.

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Its hard to misunderstand a moron, mind you she's still not as bad as Anders.

Merrill isn't a moron, she is a Dalish elf who has no experience with human society. It's an example of culture shock, not stupidity. She also uses dry humor, which some characters don't recognize:

Anders: Do the Dalish ever have fancy parties? I always imagined they celebrated most big occasions by eating mushrooms and acorns. And maybe dancing naked around a campfire.

Merrill: You know, I was wondering when the naked dancing was going to start. And the human sacrifice. I mean, you just can't throw a decent party without kidnapping a human child and offering her entrails to the sky gods.

Anders: Really?

Merrill: No.

Some people also think Merrill is a moron for not sharing the Andrastian view of Spirits and Demons, but that is a difference of religious views:

Anders: Maybe you don't really understand the difference between spirits and demons.

Merrill: Did I ask you?

Anders: Spirits were the first children of the Maker, but He turned his back on them to dote on His mortal creations. The ones who resented this became demons, driven to take everything mortals had and gain back the Maker's favor.

Merrill: Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative.

She was almost possessed by a demon, everyone told her it would happen even Anders who was an abomination himself told her it would happen, but would she listen. Not only was she a moron, she went out of her way to continue being a moron.

Merrill isn't a moron by any measure, and there's no proof to back up Marethari's claim in Act III, which is entirely different than her claim in Act II. It's more likely she was duped by Audacity. And we see Merrill's intellect when she (in Friendship) confronts Anders in Act II:

Merrill: Are you all right?

Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?

Merrill: I'm sorry.

Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 09 février 2013 - 09:53 .

[Iakus]

As others have pointed out, Merrill can die in DA2, so it's unlikely she'd return in anything but a cameo.

Besides, last scene in my games, she's run off with Hawke, so...

Modifié par iakus, 09 février 2013 - 09:54 .

[Ruairi46]

DinoSteve wrote...

ruairi46 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

...
We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative.

 
Imo Sebastion is smarter than a bloodmage who is crazed by a mirror and is the reason of the demise of her entire clan.

I never wrote that.

Lol I really failed at the quoting, fogive me

Modifié par ruairi46, 09 février 2013 - 09:55 .

[BouncyFrag]

There is no rationalization of Merrill's actions that would justify her foolish obsession in light of the consequences of said obsession regardless of how 'good' or 'noble' her intentions were.

[Ruairi46]

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is no rationalization of Merrill's actions that would justify her foolish obsession in light of the consequences of said obsession regardless of how 'good' or 'noble' her intentions were.

This, she is and allways will be a deluded moron.

[Iakus]

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is no rationalization of Merrill's actions that would justify her foolish obsession in light of the consequences of said obsession regardless of how 'good' or 'noble' her intentions were.

Simple:  She thinks she can handle teh danger.  She's wrong, but that's why it was a pride demon that was tempting her.

[Neon Rising Winter]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill isn't a moron by any measure, and there's no proof to back up Marethari's claim in Act III, which is entirely different than her claim in Act II. It's more likely she was duped by Audacity. And we see Merrill's intellect when she (in Friendship) confronts Anders in Act II:

Merrill: Are you all right?

Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?

Merrill: I'm sorry.

Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

Yes, that's one of the more interesting things about Merrill, the cute and naive effect of her personality rather hides the fact that here's one of the few blood mages we see who appears to have a good grasp of the potential consequences, and doesn't lose control. Which in Kirkwall is quite an achievement.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

Modifié par DinoSteve, 09 février 2013 - 10:00 .

[Blazomancer]

She's nice I guess. But I don't really think Bioware is game for more retcon after Leliana.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Blazomancer wrote...

She's nice I guess. But I don't really think Bioware is game for more retcon after Leliana.

Oh I don't know, considering who voices her, I'd think a bit of retcon would be appropriate.

[Heimdall]

DinoSteve wrote...

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

How would seeing people being possessed disrupt her view that all spirits are dangerous?  Besides, she brings Hawke with her specifically as a contingency against getting possessed if something goes wrong.  She knows what she's doing is dangerous.

[Heimdall]

Narrow Margin wrote..

LobselVith8 wrote..
Merrill isn't a moron by any measure, and there's no proof to back up Marethari's claim in Act III, which is entirely different than her claim in Act II. It's more likely she was duped by Audacity. And we see Merrill's intellect when she (in Friendship) confronts Anders in Act II:

Merrill: Are you all right?

Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?

Merrill: I'm sorry.

Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

Yes, that's one of the more interesting things about Merrill, the cute and naive effect of her personality rather hides the fact that here's one of the few blood mages we see who appears to have a good grasp of the potential consequences, and doesn't lose control. Which in Kirkwall is quite an achievement.

Exactly why I like her.

[Heimdall]

I doubt she'd appear for anything other than a brief cameo.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Lord Aesir wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

How would seeing people being possessed disrupt her view that all spirits are dangerous?  Besides, she brings Hawke with her specifically as a contingency against getting possessed if something goes wrong.  She knows what she's doing is dangerous.

and that makes her less of a moron.

So if i stuck my hand in the fire despite people telling me I'll get burned, as long as I have people with me that makes me not a moron?

[Heimdall]

DinoSteve wrote..

Lord Aesir wrote...

DinoSteve wrote..
No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

How would seeing people being possessed disrupt her view that all spirits are dangerous?  Besides, she brings Hawke with her specifically as a contingency against getting possessed if something goes wrong.  She knows what she's doing is dangerous.

and that makes her less of a moron.

So if i stuck my hand in the fire despite people telling me I'll get burned, as long as I have people with me that makes me not a moron?

A more apt analogy of her actions would be putting on a heat resistant glove to try and reach through the flame in order to retrieve an item in the bottom of the fire.  Hawke and co. being the glove and the item being the knowledge of fixing the eluvian.

Risky still, but she's willing considering the potential benefit to her people.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 09 février 2013 - 10:19 .

[Blazomancer]

If you are sticking your hand in fire for some greater purpose, or at least for something that you believe is worthwhile, then probably you are not much of a moron.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Lord Aesir wrote...

DinoSteve wrote..

Lord Aesir wrote...

DinoSteve wrote..
No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

How would seeing people being possessed disrupt her view that all spirits are dangerous?  Besides, she brings Hawke with her specifically as a contingency against getting possessed if something goes wrong.  She knows what she's doing is dangerous.

and that makes her less of a moron.

So if i stuck my hand in the fire despite people telling me I'll get burned, as long as I have people with me that makes me not a moron?

A more apt analogy of her actions would be putting on a heat resistant glove to try and reach through the flame in order to retrieve an item in the bottom of the fire.  Hawke and co. being the glove and the item being the knowledge of fixing the eluvian.

Risky still, but she's willing considering the potential benefit to her people.

No I don't think your analogy works as she had no protection from being possessed, Hawke and crew where just there to clean up her mess.

[LobselVith8]

iakus wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is no rationalization of Merrill's actions that would justify her foolish obsession in light of the consequences of said obsession regardless of how 'good' or 'noble' her intentions were.

Simple:  She thinks she can handle teh danger.  She's wrong, but that's why it was a pride demon that was tempting her. 

Yet Marethari is the one who releases Audacity and becomes an abomination. If Audacity was the source behind Marethari's claim that it could use the restored Eluvian to escape (since it's entirely different than her reason for being opposed to Merrill's efforts in Act II), then the Keeper was the one who fell prey to Audacity.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Blazomancer wrote...

If you are sticking your hand in fire for some greater purpose, or at least for something that you believe is worthwhile, then probably you are not much of a moron.

Or you could find another way to get said item or wait till the fire went out or even put the fire out.
What Merrill was doing is not the only way to regain what her people lost. Hell if you give the empty book for stories to Veleanna in DA:A she has a better way to regain what the elves lost.

[Neon Rising Winter]

DinoSteve wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

DinoSteve wrote..

Lord Aesir wrote...

DinoSteve wrote..
No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

How would seeing people being possessed disrupt her view that all spirits are dangerous?  Besides, she brings Hawke with her specifically as a contingency against getting possessed if something goes wrong.  She knows what she's doing is dangerous.

and that makes her less of a moron.

So if i stuck my hand in the fire despite people telling me I'll get burned, as long as I have people with me that makes me not a moron?

A more apt analogy of her actions would be putting on a heat resistant glove to try and reach through the flame in order to retrieve an item in the bottom of the fire.  Hawke and co. being the glove and the item being the knowledge of fixing the eluvian.

Risky still, but she's willing considering the potential benefit to her people.

No I don't think your analogy works as she had no protection from being possessed, Hawke and crew where just there to clean up her mess.

At the risk of pounding this poor analogy to death...

Merrill's knowledge is the heat resistant glove, Hawke and co are a fire extinguisher (just in case), and Merrill never does get burned because Marethari rushes in and sticks her head in the fire. She I admit does get burned.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 09 février 2013 - 10:28 .