239 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Death]

Merrill is a rocket scientist. True story. 

Modifié par Darth Death, 09 février 2013 - 10:27 .

[Wulfram]

I'd like to see Merrill back, but not if it's only going to be for a meaningless cameo.

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem; he can't be summoned, because he's already in the real world. He can be spoken to, which is the only thing Merrill was going to do. She's directly opposed to releasing Audacity from his prison, per convo with an aggressive Hawke. Get your facts straight before you call Merrill a moron.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits.

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem; he can't be summoned, because he's already in the real world. He can be spoken to, which is the only thing Merrill was going to do. She's directly opposed to releasing Audacity from his prison, per convo with an aggressive Hawke. Get your facts straight before you call Merrill a moron.

I have my facts straight if Merrill repaired that mirror she would have been possessed. No where have I mentioned summoning the demon from the fade.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 09 février 2013 - 10:34 .

[Iakus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

iakus wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is no rationalization of Merrill's actions that would justify her foolish obsession in light of the consequences of said obsession regardless of how 'good' or 'noble' her intentions were.

Simple:  She thinks she can handle teh danger.  She's wrong, but that's why it was a pride demon that was tempting her. 

Yet Marethari is the one who releases Audacity and becomes an abomination. If Audacity was the source behind Marethari's claim that it could use the restored Eluvian to escape (since it's entirely different than her reason for being opposed to Merrill's efforts in Act II), then the Keeper was the one who fell prey to Audacity.

Maybe.  It's unclear what's going on by that point.  When Marethari gives her explanation in Act 3 she has already been possessed and her words suspect.   She claimed she allowed herself to be taken by Audacity to spare Merrill that fate.  But again, that could be Audacity itself trying to mess with Merrill's head.

But throughout DA2, we have seen Merrill state with absolute confidence that demons can be dealt with if you're careful.  She thinks she's capable enough at dealing with them, but her sense of...pride...causes her to overestimate her abilities in that regard.

[Knight of Dane]

Merrill was one of my favorties too, but I only want her to cameo in Dragon Age III if it makes sense as following some story or other. Alistair's King cameo was odd and Zevran's screamed "fanservice" too, bioware can do better than that, the characters deserve better than that.

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

No I don't think your analogy works as she had no protection from being possessed, Hawke and crew where just there to clean up her mess.

Hawke and his companions know nothing about elven culture or the Eluvian, as opposed to Merrill, who is well versed in the history of the People, and studied the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolated information from the shard when she was constructing the Eluvian. Hawke's counterarguments would come from a place of ignorance.

DinoSteve wrote...

Blazomancer wrote...

If you are sticking your hand in fire for some greater purpose, or at least for something that you believe is worthwhile, then probably you are not much of a moron.

Or you could find another way to get said item or wait till the fire went out or even put the fire out. 
What Merrill was doing is not the only way to regain what her people lost. Hell if you give the empty book for stories to Veleanna in DA:A she has a better way to regain what the elves lost. 

No, The Warden can tell Velanna to tell new stories, rather than regaining what was lost. Another inaccurate statement from you.

[Knight of Dane]

iakus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

iakus wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is no rationalization of Merrill's actions that would justify her foolish obsession in light of the consequences of said obsession regardless of how 'good' or 'noble' her intentions were.

Simple:  She thinks she can handle teh danger.  She's wrong, but that's why it was a pride demon that was tempting her. 

Yet Marethari is the one who releases Audacity and becomes an abomination. If Audacity was the source behind Marethari's claim that it could use the restored Eluvian to escape (since it's entirely different than her reason for being opposed to Merrill's efforts in Act II), then the Keeper was the one who fell prey to Audacity.

Maybe.  It's unclear what's going on by that point.  When Marethari gives her explanation in Act 3 she has already been possessed and her words suspect.   She claimed she allowed herself to be taken by Audacity to spare Merrill that fate.  But again, that could be Audacity itself trying to mess with Merrill's head.

But throughout DA2, we have seen Merrill state with absolute confidence that demons can be dealt with if you're careful.  She thinks she's capable enough at dealing with them, but her sense of...pride...causes her to overestimate her abilities in that regard.

That's what Audacity would want sure, but nothing in the game ever suggests that Merrill can't deal with it since she's never given that chance, people assume she couldn't because of her personality and what that retarded clan ended up doing.

[Dutchess]

I'm more hoping to see Fenris again, though I don't estimate the chances very high. And if they do to his face what they did to Zevran... then perhaps it's for the best.

[Blazomancer]

@Dino - It may not be the only way, but it is surely among the best ways. Umm, best in the sense that since the mirror dates back to ancient times, it's kind of a high risk - high reward bargain. That Merrill is willing to sacrifice herself for such a pursuit, is quite commendable, if nothing else.

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits. 

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem; he can't be summoned, because he's already in the real world. He can be spoken to, which is the only thing Merrill was going to do. She's directly opposed to releasing Audacity from his prison, per convo with an aggressive Hawke. Get your facts straight before you call Merrill a moron.

I have my facts straight if Merrill repaired that mirror she would have been possessed. No where have I mentioned summoning the demon from the fade. 

According to Marethari, who let Audacity free under that line of reasoning, and she has nothing to back up her claim. She seems to have been duped by Audacity.

[Knight of Dane]

renjility wrote...

I'm more hoping to see Fenris again, though I don't estimate the chances very high. And if they do to his face what they did to Zevran... then perhaps it's for the best.

One does not exclude the other my friend. 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Blazomancer wrote...

@Dino - It may not be the only way, but it is surely among the best ways. Umm, best in the sense that since the mirror dates back to ancient times, it's kind of a high risk - high reward bargain. That Merrill is willing to sacrifice herself for such a pursuit, is quite commendable, if nothing else.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you because the price is too high, when there are better ways, instead of focusing on the past she should be trying to give her people a future.

[LobselVith8]

iakus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Yet Marethari is the one who releases Audacity and becomes an abomination. If Audacity was the source behind Marethari's claim that it could use the restored Eluvian to escape (since it's entirely different than her reason for being opposed to Merrill's efforts in Act II), then the Keeper was the one who fell prey to Audacity.

Maybe.  It's unclear what's going on by that point.  When Marethari gives her explanation in Act 3 she has already been possessed and her words suspect.   She claimed she allowed herself to be taken by Audacity to spare Merrill that fate.  But again, that could be Audacity itself trying to mess with Merrill's head.

But throughout DA2, we have seen Merrill state with absolute confidence that demons can be dealt with if you're careful.  She thinks she's capable enough at dealing with them, but her sense of...pride...causes her to overestimate her abilities in that regard. 

You can gain information from demons without losing your free will to them, as Hawke can do with the Ancient Profane Abomination and Torpor. That's the crux of what Merrill argues in favor of when she's with Hawke in those scenes.

[Iakus]

Knight of Dane wrote...

That's what Audacity would want sure, but nothing in the game ever suggests that Merrill can't deal with it since she's never given that chance, people assume she couldn't because of her personality and what that retarded clan ended up doing.

Maybe she can, and maybe she can't.  She falls victim to Wryme's temptation in the Fade during Night Terrors,  It's entirely possible that Merrill was playing right into Audacity's hands.  We may never know for sure.

All that being said, Merrill is one of my favorite DA2 companions, but I hope we get nothing more than a cameo, if that.  Any appearance by her, or any other returning characters, will inevitably draw comparisons between the character in DA3 and earlier incarnations.  No good can come of that.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

No proof? she told you she was going to summon it, and all demons want to do in DA2 is posses mortals. No matter what Merrill believes Justice tells you different, A SPIRIT tells you there are good and bad spirits. 

Plus that continued belief of Merrills is one of the biggest reason shes a moron, all the people she witnesses getting possessed in DA2 and she still believes that. Come on really?

Audacity is sundered from the Fade and trapped in a totem; he can't be summoned, because he's already in the real world. He can be spoken to, which is the only thing Merrill was going to do. She's directly opposed to releasing Audacity from his prison, per convo with an aggressive Hawke. Get your facts straight before you call Merrill a moron.

I have my facts straight if Merrill repaired that mirror she would have been possessed. No where have I mentioned summoning the demon from the fade. 

According to Marethari, who let Audacity free under that line of reasoning, and she has nothing to back up her claim. She seems to have been duped by Audacity.

and Merrill could not have been duped also? I'd think Marethari has more wit than Merrill.

[Neon Rising Winter]

If I were to fault Merrill in this, I'd say her mistake isn't her confidence in her ability to resist the spirit. Instead it's in thinking that simply being right would be enough. She doesn't take into account the fears and the doubts of the people around her and what that might lead them to do.

How about this as a scenario. The spirit has worked out it cannot take control of her, but in stringing her on long enough it knows there are people around her who will eventually intervene. And them it can control.

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 09 février 2013 - 10:44 .

[LPPrince]

Narrow Margin wrote...

How about this as a scenario. The spirit has worked out it cannot take control of her, but in stringing her on long enough it knows there are people around her who will eventually intervene. And them it can control.

Joker-Batman-Two Face

[LobselVith8]

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to Marethari, who let Audacity free under that line of reasoning, and she has nothing to back up her claim. She seems to have been duped by Audacity.

and Merrill could not have been duped also? I'd think Marethari has more wit than Merrill.

The facts don't support that. Marethari released Audacity and became an abomination, endangering the clan (by leaving them nearby and in the dark about her actions when the Sabrae clan should have left Sundermount years ago, per Merrill's dialogue) and Merrill, who she attempts to kill as an abomination.

[Neon Rising Winter]

LPPrince wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

How about this as a scenario. The spirit has worked out it cannot take control of her, but in stringing her on long enough it knows there are people around her who will eventually intervene. And them it can control.

Joker-Batman-Two Face

Does that make Merrill Batman? I think you've just broke my brain

[duckley]

This thread is reminding me how flawed many of the characters were in DA2 :
Directly of indirectly (IMO):
Merrill caused the deaths of her clan
Isabella caused the Qunari slaughter
Anders caused the deaths of the Grand Cleric and anyone else in the area and sparked the rebellion that resulted in a ton of deaths
Sebastian is rigid and Fenris moody and hate filled
and Hawke...well he/she meant well LOL

I found some of the characters rather whiny and broody and annoying....
except Varric! I love Varric!
It would be nice to seesome growth and maturity for any returning characters - I prefer the characters from DAO - and I would love to see some real morally upstanding, heroic characters type again!

[BouncyFrag]

renjility wrote...

I'm more hoping to see Fenris again, though I don't estimate the chances very high. And if they do to his face what they did to Zevran... then perhaps it's for the best.

It would be interesting to see him if you actually had returned him to Danarius and had escaped. However, as with Merrill or Loghain, characters that could have died (or sent back into slavery like Fenris) wouldn't warrant priority content for the game since I don't see Bioware making anything other than a cameo since only so many people would experience it. If Bioware was to make all of this unique content based on your import save I'd be really pumped for the game. Truth be told, choice and consequence hasn't really been what I had hoped and expected (see DA2 and ME3), and I've stopped hoping for such things since I'm tired of being disappointed.

[LobselVith8]

duckley wrote...

This thread is reminding me how flawed many of the characters were in DA2 :
Directly of indirectly (IMO):
Merrill caused the deaths of her clan
Isabella caused the Qunari slaughter
Anders caused the deaths of the Grand Cleric and anyone else in the area and sparked the rebellion that resulted in a ton of deaths
Sebastian is rigid and Fenris moody and hate filled
and Hawke...well he/she meant well LOL

I found some of the characters rather whiny and broody and annoying....
except Varric! I love Varric!
It would be nice to seesome growth and maturity for any returning characters - I prefer the characters from DAO - and I would love to see some real morally upstanding, heroic characters type again!

Merrill isn't to blame for the clan. You don't blame the murder victim when people attempt to murder the victim in cold blood.

[Iakus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill isn't to blame for the clan. You don't blame the murder victim when people attempt to murder the victim in cold blood.

It's also possible to avoid wiping out her clan, with the right dialogue choices

Modifié par iakus, 09 février 2013 - 11:01 .

[Iakus]

BouncyFrag wrote...

renjility wrote...

I'm more hoping to see Fenris again, though I don't estimate the chances very high. And if they do to his face what they did to Zevran... then perhaps it's for the best.

It would be interesting to see him if you actually had returned him to Danarius and had escaped. However, as with Merrill or Loghain, characters that could have died (or sent back into slavery like Fenris) wouldn't warrant priority content for the game since I don't see Bioware making anything other than a cameo since only so many people would experience it. If Bioware was to make all of this unique content based on your import save I'd be really pumped for the game. Truth be told, choice and consequence hasn't really been what I had hoped and expected (see DA2 and ME3), and I've stopped hoping for such things since I'm tired of being disappointed.

Fenris can die too, during The Last Straw.

The only DA2 companions who definitely survive in all playthroughs are Varric, Aveline (she will leave rather than fight Hawke) and maybe Sebastian, though he's a DLC character so not everyone got him.