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[BouncyFrag]

LobselVith8 wrote...

duckley wrote...

This thread is reminding me how flawed many of the characters were in DA2 :
Directly of indirectly (IMO):
Merrill caused the deaths of her clan
Isabella caused the Qunari slaughter
Anders caused the deaths of the Grand Cleric and anyone else in the area and sparked the rebellion that resulted in a ton of deaths
Sebastian is rigid and Fenris moody and hate filled
and Hawke...well he/she meant well LOL

I found some of the characters rather whiny and broody and annoying....
except Varric! I love Varric!
It would be nice to seesome growth and maturity for any returning characters - I prefer the characters from DAO - and I would love to see some real morally upstanding, heroic characters type again!

Merrill isn't to blame for the clan. You don't blame the murder victim when people attempt to murder the victim in cold blood.

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to Marethari, who let Audacity free under that line of reasoning, and she has nothing to back up her claim. She seems to have been duped by Audacity.

and Merrill could not have been duped also? I'd think Marethari has more wit than Merrill.

The facts don't support that. Marethari released Audacity and became an abomination, endangering the clan (by leaving them nearby and in the dark about her actions when the Sabrae clan should have left Sundermount years ago, per Merrill's dialogue) and Merrill, who she attempts to kill as an abomination.

The facts don't support that Marethari has more wit than Merrill?

I think there is plenty of evidence of that.

Remember Merrill kicked the whole thing off by becoming BFF's with a demon and using Blood magic which makes one more susceptible to possession, to cleanse a shard of the mirror, it seem to me the the demon was stringing her along quite nicely, until Marethari through a spanner into its plans then it tried to make the best out of a bad situation.

[Knight of Dane]

BouncyFrag wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

duckley wrote...

This thread is reminding me how flawed many of the characters were in DA2 :
Directly of indirectly (IMO):
Merrill caused the deaths of her clan
Isabella caused the Qunari slaughter
Anders caused the deaths of the Grand Cleric and anyone else in the area and sparked the rebellion that resulted in a ton of deaths
Sebastian is rigid and Fenris moody and hate filled
and Hawke...well he/she meant well LOL

I found some of the characters rather whiny and broody and annoying....
except Varric! I love Varric!
It would be nice to seesome growth and maturity for any returning characters - I prefer the characters from DAO - and I would love to see some real morally upstanding, heroic characters type again!

Merrill isn't to blame for the clan. You don't blame the murder victim when people attempt to murder the victim in cold blood.

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

Merrill is not to blame for the actions of her clan, she left them for Kirkwall in order to keep them safe.

[Neon Rising Winter]

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

Funnily that's how Marethari's fate struck me. She had good intentions, but ended up causing the very problem she was trying to avert,

[Knight of Dane]

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

According to Marethari, who let Audacity free under that line of reasoning, and she has nothing to back up her claim. She seems to have been duped by Audacity.

and Merrill could not have been duped also? I'd think Marethari has more wit than Merrill.

The facts don't support that. Marethari released Audacity and became an abomination, endangering the clan (by leaving them nearby and in the dark about her actions when the Sabrae clan should have left Sundermount years ago, per Merrill's dialogue) and Merrill, who she attempts to kill as an abomination.

The facts don't support that Marethari has more wit than Merrill?

I think there is plenty of evidence of that.

Remember Merrill kicked the whole thing off by becoming BFF's with a demon and using Blood magic which makes one more susceptible to possession, to cleanse a shard of the mirror, it seem to me the the demon was stringing her along quite nicely, until Marethari through a spanner into its plans then it tried to make the best out of a bad situation.

Blood magic doesn't make you more susceptile to posession, death tearing the veil does, which blood magic often results in, but Merrill only uses the blood magic for power.

Merrill brought a mirror shard with her from another country to a demon trapped in a statue. It influences the minds of those that are nearby, mages specifically, which Merrill's short story states since both she and Marethari can feel its prescence.

Merill leaves, Marethari stays.
Which is the mage close to its influence? Marethari.

[Knight of Dane]

Narrow Margin wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

Funnily that's how Marethari's fate struck me. She had good intentions, but ended up causing the very problem she was trying to avert,

Yeah, it pretty much sums up what Fenarel says "the keeper loved you, more than the clan it seems"
Motherly pride corrupted apparently 

[BouncyFrag]

Narrow Margin wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

Funnily that's how Marethari's fate struck me. She had good intentions, but ended up causing the very problem she was trying to avert,

Merrill set everything in motion, but this is a 'we just have to agree to disagree' instance since I think there is no level of rationalisation to justify what her foolish obsession wrought.

[ChaosMorning]

I think it is possible.

The Dalish elves are calling for a Arlathvhen (gathering of the clans) at Halamshiral (as mentioned during a conversation between Fenris and Merril), so there is a possibility she might go to it.

Or, if Hawke returns and Merril was romanced, she might be with the Champion.

[Neon Rising Winter]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

Funnily that's how Marethari's fate struck me. She had good intentions, but ended up causing the very problem she was trying to avert,

Merrill set everything in motion, but this is a 'we just have to agree to disagree' instance since I think there is no level of rationalisation to justify what her foolish obsession wrought.

Fair enough!

[Knight of Dane]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened.

Funnily that's how Marethari's fate struck me. She had good intentions, but ended up causing the very problem she was trying to avert,

Merrill set everything in motion, but this is a 'we just have to agree to disagree' instance since I think there is no level of rationalisation to justify what her foolish obsession wrought.

Well, that could be said for everyone then, it can be led back and said "Tamlen set everything in motion when he walked up that mirror" you still can't blame him of the choices anyone else makes after that, neither can Merrill be blamed for the choice of Marethari.

[kalasaurus]

ReallyRue wrote...

I kind of want to see a fight between my Dalish Warden and Merrill, but I know that's relegated to 'headcanon'.

Warden: Hey, Merrill!  What's up?  Why aren't you with the clan?
Merrill: I left the clan.
Warden:  What, why?  Surely the Keeper misses you.
Merrill: I killed her.
Warden:  What?! Why?!?!
Merrill: I was dabbling in blood magic to fix the Eluvian that killed Tamlen and nearly killed you... and the Keeper--
Warden:  What the ****!?!?
Merrill:  Yeah, and after I killed the Keeper who took in the demon who wanted me to fix the Eluvian, the clan was pretty p***ed off at me.
Warden: Uh, yeah I should think so... where are they now?
Merrill: I killed them all too.
Warden: 

[Knight of Dane]

GlassElephant wrote...

ReallyRue wrote...

I kind of want to see a fight between my Dalish Warden and Merrill, but I know that's relegated to 'headcanon'.

Warden: Hey, Merrill!  What's up?  Why aren't you with the clan?
Merrill: I left the clan.
Warden:  What, why?  Surely the Keeper misses you.
Merrill: I killed her.
Warden:  What?! Why?!?!
Merrill: I was dabbling in blood magic to fix the Eluvian that killed Tamlen and nearly killed you... and the Keeper--
Warden:  What the ****!?!?
Merrill:  Yeah, and after I killed the Keeper who took in the demon who wanted me to fix the Eluvian, the clan was pretty p***ed off at me.
Warden: Uh, yeah I should think so... where are they now?
Merrill: I killed them all too.
Warden: 

And there it is people! The simpleton's way of looking at things!

[ImperatorMortis]

No more cameos please.

[kalasaurus]

^^Well aren't you a pleasant person. Regardless of the complexities of the situation, the Dalish Warden would be very upset with Merrill for all of crap she causes in DA2.

[Knight of Dane]

GlassElephant wrote...

^^Well aren't you a pleasant person. Regardless of the complexities of the situation, the Dalish Warden would be very upset with Merrill for all of crap she causes in DA2.

You weren't joking?

[Rorschachinstein]

If they keep her look, then I'm all for it.

[kalasaurus]

Knight of Dane wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

^^Well aren't you a pleasant person. Regardless of the complexities of the situation, the Dalish Warden would be very upset with Merrill for all of crap she causes in DA2.

You weren't joking?

I was being hyperbolic, yes.  I still doubt the Dalish Warden would appreciate Merrill trying to fix the Eluvian with blood magic after it killed Tamlen, setting into motion the events that killed the Keeper and possibly their clan.

Modifié par GlassElephant, 09 février 2013 - 11:52 .

[LobselVith8]

iakus wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill isn't to blame for the clan. You don't blame the murder victim when people attempt to murder the victim in cold blood.

It's also possible to avoid wiping out her clan, with the right dialogue choices.

True, but it's still attempted murder on the part of the clan for telling them the truth about Keeper Marethari's possession by Audacity, or telling them not to try to attack (i.e. murder) Merrill.

[LobselVith8]

BouncyFrag wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill isn't to blame for the clan. You don't blame the murder victim when people attempt to murder the victim in cold blood.

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened. 

You mean people who were ignorant about elven culture (Hawke and the rest of Merrill's companions who knew nothing about the Eluvian and the People), and the Keeper who fell prey to Audacity's machinations?

[Knight of Dane]

GlassElephant wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

GlassElephant wrote...

^^Well aren't you a pleasant person. Regardless of the complexities of the situation, the Dalish Warden would be very upset with Merrill for all of crap she causes in DA2.

You weren't joking?

I was being hyperbolic, yes.  I still doubt the Dalish Warden would appreciate Merrill trying to fix the Eluvian with blood magic after it killed Tamlen, setting into motion the events that killed the Keeper and possibly their clan.

The Dalish Warden knows the truth of the Eluvians from his/her Morrigan quest.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Only threads about Anders and Merrill get such attention.

[LobselVith8]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Narrow Margin wrote...

BouncyFrag wrote...

There is an expression that says the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Had Merrill taken to heart a single thing that everyone had been telling her throughout the entire game, the events to that outcome may not have happened. 

Funnily that's how Marethari's fate struck me. She had good intentions, but ended up causing the very problem she was trying to avert,

Merrill set everything in motion, but this is a 'we just have to agree to disagree' instance since I think there is no level of rationalisation to justify what her foolish obsession wrought.

By "wrought", you mean how Marethari released Audacity of her own volition, or her clan attempting to murder her in cold blood? <_<

[Knight of Dane]

DinoSteve wrote...

Only threads about Anders and Merrill get such attention.

They are the mages! 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Knight of Dane wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Only threads about Anders and Merrill get such attention.

They are the mages! 

Or the characters people have the most strong feelings about.

I suppose in a sense you could say (I wouldn't) Bioware has done a good job with there characters as they are the most talked about. I dunno if what we say about them is what Bioware intended though.

Modifié par DinoSteve, 10 février 2013 - 12:29 .

[Knight of Dane]

DinoSteve wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Only threads about Anders and Merrill get such attention.

They are the mages! 

Or the characters people have the most strong feelings about.

At least the characters where people has the most conflicts.