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[Giga Drill BREAKER]

sorry edited my post, didn't think you would be so quick.

[Stella-Arc]

I think Merrill's character arc could have used a little bit more work (like so many others). It had potential and it fell flat on its face.

And this might sound a bit off-topic but what happens if you never do A New Path. Does that mean Marethari still lives?

[Knight of Dane]

Stella-Arc wrote...

I think Merrill's character arc could have used a little bit more work (like so many others). It had potential and it fell flat on its face.

And this might sound a bit off-topic but what happens if you never do A New Path. Does that mean Marethari still lives?

I don't think anyone knows really, but many assume Merrill goes anyway since she says she will, but I think she gives up since she's with you in the ending.

[imbs]

Whilst merril is of the cuter companions... well written? Not really. not mostly. Boring typical character with the "culture clashes" that people seem so fond of mentioning done in a way that has been done too many times and is not particularly interesting or insightful. Not only that but the whole eluvian thing isn't particularly interesting either. The only suprises along the way seem to just come from breaks of character from the keeper and the rest of the clan randomly following you up the mountain to attack you.

The best thing you can say about Merril is her story/personal quests are not nearly as bad as Anders, Aveline, Varric/Fenris (haunted house quests hurray). Isabela's quests remain the only interesting ones in the entire game and they stop being interesting the second they stop being directly tied to the qunari invasion.

Modifié par imbs, 10 février 2013 - 12:52 .

[LobselVith8]

Stella-Arc wrote...

I think Merrill's character arc could have used a little bit more work (like so many others). It had potential and it fell flat on its face.

And this might sound a bit off-topic but what happens if you never do A New Path. Does that mean Marethari still lives?

Marethari released Audacity prior to Merrill's visit to Sundermount, since she notes her attempt to communicate with Audacity long distance didn't work, and she's concerned (since Audacity is supposed to be trapped in a totem). If the Keeper still lives, she would be living as an abomination.

[FINE HERE]

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

[TJPags]

FINE HERE wrote...

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

I barely remember her from DA:O, and hated her in DA2.

I think it's time for potentially dead companions to stay dead.

And for BW to start making new ones.

What's with all the recycling, anyway?

[imbs]

TJPags wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

I barely remember her from DA:O, and hated her in DA2.

I think it's time for potentially dead companions to stay dead.

And for BW to start making new ones.

What's with all the recycling, anyway?

I believe she was only a fringe character in DAO, you only met her if you made a dalish elf iirc. I only ever made one dalish elf but I'm pretty sure she was there! dont quote me on it tho.

[WarBaku]

I hope not. She does not seem important to the mage and templar war. If she does appear it should deal with the mirror and Morrigan's ability to use it or something along those lines. Personally, I didn't enjoy her character, but if it makes sense for her to be there then okay.

[TJPags]

imbs wrote...

TJPags wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

I barely remember her from DA:O, and hated her in DA2.

I think it's time for potentially dead companions to stay dead.

And for BW to start making new ones.

What's with all the recycling, anyway?

I believe she was only a fringe character in DAO, you only met her if you made a dalish elf iirc. I only ever made one dalish elf but I'm pretty sure she was there! dont quote me on it tho.

Oh, she was there, as a fringe character indeed (I played a DE warden as well).  However, she was emminently forgettable.  I never got why she was recycled.

[Knight of Dane]

TJPags wrote...

imbs wrote...

TJPags wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

I barely remember her from DA:O, and hated her in DA2.

I think it's time for potentially dead companions to stay dead.

And for BW to start making new ones.

What's with all the recycling, anyway?

I believe she was only a fringe character in DAO, you only met her if you made a dalish elf iirc. I only ever made one dalish elf but I'm pretty sure she was there! dont quote me on it tho.

Oh, she was there, as a fringe character indeed (I played a DE warden as well).  However, she was emminently forgettable.  I never got why she was recycled.

Perhaps for that very reason.

[Twisted Path]

I'd prefer no cameos or character recycling at all, either by characters I liked or disliked. They seem like a big waste of resources that would be better spent on creating a well crafted, self-contained stories than fanservice and winks at the audience. For instance I'd much rather hear some new and original jokes than see Alister pop up out of nowhere to say "Swooping is bad."

[90s Kai]

I hope so.
So my Mahariel can choke her for trying to restore the Eluvian.

[kalasaurus]

TJPags wrote...


Oh, she was there, as a fringe character indeed (I played a DE warden as well).  However, she was emminently forgettable.  I never got why she was recycled.

The personality of Merrill is quite differerent in the DE Origin (she's less patient and a bit pushy).  The only thing the two versions really share is an interest in the Eluvian and Elven Culture.  I guess that's the only thing worth saving.  She was forgettable in Origins and pretty much an entirely different character in DA2.

[TJPags]

Knight of Dane wrote...

TJPags wrote...

imbs wrote...

TJPags wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

I barely remember her from DA:O, and hated her in DA2.

I think it's time for potentially dead companions to stay dead.

And for BW to start making new ones.

What's with all the recycling, anyway?

I believe she was only a fringe character in DAO, you only met her if you made a dalish elf iirc. I only ever made one dalish elf but I'm pretty sure she was there! dont quote me on it tho.

Oh, she was there, as a fringe character indeed (I played a DE warden as well).  However, she was emminently forgettable.  I never got why she was recycled.

Perhaps for that very reason.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.  Are you suggesting she was recycled because her DA:O character was forgettable?  If so, I don't see why that would make sense.

GlassElephant wrote...

TJPags wrote...


Oh, she was there, as a fringe character indeed (I played a DE warden as well). However, she was emminently forgettable. I never got why she was recycled.

The personality of Merrill is quite differerent in the DE Origin (she's less patient and a bit pushy). The only thing the two versions really share is an interest in the Eluvian and Elven Culture. I guess that's the only thing worth saving. She was forgettable in Origins and pretty much an entirely different character in DA2.

I got that impression also, when I went back and looked at her in the DE origin.  Which makes it less understandable to me why they'd recycle her, considering she seemed to have changed.

[Stella-Arc]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Stella-Arc wrote...

I think Merrill's character arc could have used a little bit more work (like so many others). It had potential and it fell flat on its face.

And this might sound a bit off-topic but what happens if you never do A New Path. Does that mean Marethari still lives?

Marethari released Audacity prior to Merrill's visit to Sundermount, since she notes her attempt to communicate with Audacity long distance didn't work, and she's concerned (since Audacity is supposed to be trapped in a totem). If the Keeper still lives, she would be living as an abomination.

Holy ****. 

I would pay to see that...on the other hand, never mind. Marethari is one of my favorite characters and to know she is as good as dead pains me. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

StElmo wrote...
What do you think BSN do you think she'll make an appearence?

I hope not.

StElmo wrote...

Does she ever die in DA2?

Don't know. Don't care. Never really pay attention to her character.

StElmo wrote...


If not that would make it more likely, at least in terms of basic probability.

Well, I hope it more likely for her place to be taken by new character. At least, it will more likely, I would pay more attention to the new character, in term of basic probability. 

[imbs]

TJPags wrote...


I'm sorry, I don't understand.  Are you suggesting she was recycled because her DA:O character was forgettable?  If so, I don't see why that would make sense.

I got that impression also, when I went back and looked at her in the DE origin.  Which makes it less understandable to me why they'd recycle her, considering she seemed to have changed.

I think you have a point here. I am trying to think of a reason why they recycled her but honestly I am drawing a blank. Maybe they were planning to use a dalish elf mage and figured they might as well have a shoutout/nod to DAO? Maybe the reason she was used was not because of her but because of the Mirror thing. If they decided on having the mirror as the basis of some companion quests I can see how they would get to the decision to use her as a good way to get it into the story without creating an entirely new eluvian founder story.

Modifié par imbs, 10 février 2013 - 02:05 .

[Knight of Dane]

TJPags wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

TJPags wrote...

imbs wrote...

TJPags wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

I disliked Merril in DA:O, and hated her in DA2. I hope she never comes back.

I barely remember her from DA:O, and hated her in DA2.

I think it's time for potentially dead companions to stay dead.

And for BW to start making new ones.

What's with all the recycling, anyway?

I believe she was only a fringe character in DAO, you only met her if you made a dalish elf iirc. I only ever made one dalish elf but I'm pretty sure she was there! dont quote me on it tho.

Oh, she was there, as a fringe character indeed (I played a DE warden as well).  However, she was emminently forgettable.  I never got why she was recycled.

Perhaps for that very reason.

I'm sorry, I don't understand.  Are you suggesting she was recycled because her DA:O character was forgettable?  If so, I don't see why that would make sense.

When a character is forgettable not as many will mind when you rewrite it obviously.

[Androme]

 She is boring and has nothing to do with the story of the DA franchise, get rid of her.

edit:
Perhaps she can actually be given a role in DA3, make her finish an Eluvian and have Morrigan pop out of it.

Modifié par Androme, 10 février 2013 - 02:55 .

[StElmo]

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Its hard to misunderstand a moron, mind you she's still not as bad as Anders.

Merrill isn't a moron, she is a Dalish elf who has no experience with human society. It's an example of culture shock, not stupidity. She also uses dry humor, which some characters don't recognize:

Anders: Do the Dalish ever have fancy parties? I always imagined they celebrated most big occasions by eating mushrooms and acorns. And maybe dancing naked around a campfire.

Merrill: You know, I was wondering when the naked dancing was going to start. And the human sacrifice. I mean, you just can't throw a decent party without kidnapping a human child and offering her entrails to the sky gods.

Anders: Really?

Merrill: No.

Some people also think Merrill is a moron for not sharing the Andrastian view of Spirits and Demons, but that is a difference of religious views:

Anders: Maybe you don't really understand the difference between spirits and demons.

Merrill: Did I ask you?

Anders: Spirits were the first children of the Maker, but He turned his back on them to dote on His mortal creations. The ones who resented this became demons, driven to take everything mortals had and gain back the Maker's favor.

Merrill: Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative.

She was almost possessed by a demon, everyone told her it would happen even Anders who was an abomination himself told her it would happen, but would she listen. Not only was she a moron, she went out of her way to continue being a moron.

Did you just completely ignore his post and just say the same thing you said in your last post? Please discuss and elaborate don't labor the same point - it's boring. Thanks./

[StElmo]

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Its hard to misunderstand a moron, mind you she's still not as bad as Anders.

Merrill isn't a moron, she is a Dalish elf who has no experience with human society. It's an example of culture shock, not stupidity. She also uses dry humor, which some characters don't recognize:

Anders: Do the Dalish ever have fancy parties? I always imagined they celebrated most big occasions by eating mushrooms and acorns. And maybe dancing naked around a campfire.

Merrill: You know, I was wondering when the naked dancing was going to start. And the human sacrifice. I mean, you just can't throw a decent party without kidnapping a human child and offering her entrails to the sky gods.

Anders: Really?

Merrill: No.

Some people also think Merrill is a moron for not sharing the Andrastian view of Spirits and Demons, but that is a difference of religious views:

Anders: Maybe you don't really understand the difference between spirits and demons.

Merrill: Did I ask you?

Anders: Spirits were the first children of the Maker, but He turned his back on them to dote on His mortal creations. The ones who resented this became demons, driven to take everything mortals had and gain back the Maker's favor.

Merrill: Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

We also see Merrill's intellect time and again, when she uses magic proficiently for several years, including the scene where she can tell if templar recruit Keran has been possessed by a demon, or her knowledge about the history and culture of the People. Merrill is one of the smartest companions in the narrative.

She was almost possessed by a demon, everyone told her it would happen even Anders who was an abomination himself told her it would happen, but would she listen. Not only was she a moron, she went out of her way to continue being a moron.

Merrill isn't a moron by any measure, and there's no proof to back up Marethari's claim in Act III, which is entirely different than her claim in Act II. It's more likely she was duped by Audacity. And we see Merrill's intellect when she (in Friendship) confronts Anders in Act II:

Merrill: Are you all right?

Anders: I nearly killed an innocent girl. How could I be all right?

Merrill: I'm sorry.

Anders: You're sorry? For me? This could be you! You could be the next monster threatening helpless girls!

Merrill: Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't.

Agreed. She is subtler than other characters, a lot of people don't put any effort or care to actually appreciate her depth as a character. Very layered, which makes her so great.

[StElmo]

imbs wrote...

Whilst merril is of the cuter companions... well written? Not really. not mostly. Boring typical character with the "culture clashes" that people seem so fond of mentioning done in a way that has been done too many times and is not particularly interesting or insightful. Not only that but the whole eluvian thing isn't particularly interesting either. The only suprises along the way seem to just come from breaks of character from the keeper and the rest of the clan randomly following you up the mountain to attack you.

The best thing you can say about Merril is her story/personal quests are not nearly as bad as Anders, Aveline, Varric/Fenris (haunted house quests hurray). Isabela's quests remain the only interesting ones in the entire game and they stop being interesting the second they stop being directly tied to the qunari invasion.

I'm not entirely sure which trope you are referring to with this culture clash thing.

Are you thinking it's like a dragon age version of encino man? I don't see it.

She's well written because she has inner conflict (staying in clan vs desire to help clan), personal conflict (acceptance by Hawke's squad as a blood mage) and extra personal conflict (elven cultural ways vs kirkwall ways) - ontop of this she has a sense of subtle dry humor which is often mistaken for naivety from other characters, which she uses to mask occaisional genuine naivety.

There's a lot of depth there and I hope BioWare can make more characters with this level of depth and also bring her back.

[LobselVith8]

WarBaku wrote...

I hope not. She does not seem important to the mage and templar war. If she does appear it should deal with the mirror and Morrigan's ability to use it or something along those lines. Personally, I didn't enjoy her character, but if it makes sense for her to be there then okay.

You know, a lot of people focus on the Mage-Templar War, but (with a pro-mage run) I wonder how the People will react to hearing about a Dalish mage taking on the templars at the very seat of Chantry power over eastern Thedas. Given the hostile history between the Dalish and the templars (and the Chantry), I wonder if Merrill would be similar to how pro-mage apostate Hawke is viewed among the mages - a heroic symbol showing what they can do, as well as showing that their ancient adversary can be defeated.

Would the elves ignore Merrill playing a part in the defeat of a powerful Knight-Commander and her templars?

With rumors of unrest in the occupied Dales among the elven occupants (the news of which was used to initiate the first steps in a coup against Empress Celene by Grand Duke Gaspard), I wonder if the elves would make their own move in taking back their homeland, especially with the whole of Thedas dealing with a war between mages and templars (which would prevent an Exalted March from being successfully enacted). It would give us an opportunity to side with the elves, instead of the Empress or the Grand Duke.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Subtle? Depth? I think you are confusing Merrill with a different character, and perhaps DA2 with a different game.