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[WarBaku]

LobselVith8 wrote...

WarBaku wrote...

I hope not. She does not seem important to the mage and templar war. If she does appear it should deal with the mirror and Morrigan's ability to use it or something along those lines. Personally, I didn't enjoy her character, but if it makes sense for her to be there then okay.

You know, a lot of people focus on the Mage-Templar War, but (with a pro-mage run) I wonder how the People will react to hearing about a Dalish mage taking on the templars at the very seat of Chantry power over eastern Thedas. Given the hostile history between the Dalish and the templars (and the Chantry), I wonder if Merrill would be similar to how pro-mage apostate Hawke is viewed among the mages - a heroic symbol showing what they can do, as well as showing that their ancient adversary can be defeated.

Would the elves ignore Merrill playing a part in the defeat of a powerful Knight-Commander and her templars?

With rumors of unrest in the occupied Dales among the elven occupants (the news of which was used to initiate the first steps in a coup against Empress Celene by Grand Duke Gaspard), I wonder if the elves would make their own move in taking back their homeland, especially with the whole of Thedas dealing with a war between mages and templars (which would prevent an Exalted March from being successfully enacted). It would give us an opportunity to side with the elves, instead of the Empress or the Grand Duke.

That is an interesting premiss, but does Merril have the reputation or influence to bring that kind of thinking to other Dalish? The only thing we've been shown to my knowledge is that she is a known outcast of her clan. I am assuming that kind of reputation is passed along to other clans. I could be completely wrong and she is the beacon that the Dalish can use to reestablish themselves, but on the other hand she could be the harbringar of their destruction due to her involvement or associated of the events in Kirkwall. Would the Dalish wish to take part in this conflict? They could just sit by and let the Humans destroy themselves and then the Elves could rise from the ashes.

[Wompoo]

MinttyMint wrote...

"I hope Merril will return..."
I really hope she doesn't. I have everything nothing against her but I'd rather no previous companions return, especially ones that can die.

Your out of luck then, on two counts... Liliana, god I detest that dopey Orlesian religeous zealot, I have the same level of contempt for her as I have for the Chantry, the Maker and Templars... a dead companion and returning. As for Merril I liked her character in DA3 (although I just don't see her leaving Hawk if LI) and Varric, the only 2 I actually enjoyed. So some like her, some don't, some like Liliana some don't, meh.

[LobselVith8]

WarBaku wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

You know, a lot of people focus on the Mage-Templar War, but (with a pro-mage[/i] run) I wonder how the People will react to hearing about a Dalish mage taking on the templars at the very seat of Chantry power over eastern Thedas. Given the hostile history between the Dalish and the templars (and the Chantry), I wonder if Merrill would be similar to how pro-mage[/i] apostate Hawke is viewed among the mages - a heroic symbol showing what they can do, as well as showing that their ancient adversary can be defeated.

Would the elves ignore Merrill playing a part in the defeat of a powerful Knight-Commander and her templars?

With rumors of unrest in the occupied Dales among the elven occupants (the news of which was used to initiate the first steps in a coup against Empress Celene by Grand Duke Gaspard), I wonder if the elves would make their own move in taking back their homeland, especially with the whole of Thedas dealing with a war between mages and templars (which would prevent an Exalted March from being successfully enacted). It would give us an opportunity to side with the elves, instead of the Empress or the Grand Duke. 

That is an interesting premiss, but does Merril have the reputation or influence to bring that kind of thinking to other Dalish? The only thing we've been shown to my knowledge is that she is a known outcast of her clan. I am assuming that kind of reputation is passed along to other clans. I could be completely wrong and she is the beacon that the Dalish can use to reestablish themselves, but on the other hand she could be the harbringar of their destruction due to her involvement or associated of the events in Kirkwall. Would the Dalish wish to take part in this conflict? They could just sit by and let the Humans destroy themselves and then the Elves could rise from the ashes.

I don't know if the other clans would share Marethari's view of the situation; it seemed the members of the Sabrae clan disagreed with Merrill only because the Keeper did. That wouldn't be the case for other clans, who may have heard about Morrigan (and possibly the Hero of Ferelden and his valiant Mabari Hound) entering the Eluvian at the Dragonbone Wastes via the Dalish warrior Ariane.

Really, it could go either way. Having Merrill defeat a plethora of templars and the Knight-Commander on their own turf might make her a legend for those who are tired of running away from the templars (which is the main reason they are nomadic).

With the whole of Thedas dealing with the Mage-Templar War, and Orlais fractured by civil war, it might be an opportune time for the Dalish to reclaim the Dales from the Orlesian Empire.

[Knight of Dane]

It seems that the different clans hold different views to one another, at least the keepers.

As you can see Freddy Mercury ask the woman about here, Marethari seems to know about the slaughter of Zathrian's clan, that he had part of the faul in the whole deal and seem to have told her hunters, who are as irrational as ever, to let that girl from the imported quest look for the werewolf medicine doo-hickey's.

[CyberMurph]

I'd like to see her return. She was in the first two and that would lend to consistancy and a feeling of continuity across all three.

[Mykel54]

I hope that if she returns, it is as a victim of a blood magic sacrifice. Such delicious irony.

But realistically, she´ll make the obligatory cameo of saying some facepalm indulcing stuff and then leave for good. On the plus side, it´s a lot less time that she has to screw someone up or continue with her silly juvenile rants.

Modifié par Mykel54, 10 février 2013 - 08:18 .

[imbs]

StElmo wrote...

She's well written because she has inner conflict (staying in clan vs desire to help clan), personal conflict (acceptance by Hawke's squad as a blood mage) and extra personal conflict (elven cultural ways vs kirkwall ways) - ontop of this she has a sense of subtle dry humor which is often mistaken for naivety from other characters, which she uses to mask occaisional genuine naivety.

There's a lot of depth there and I hope BioWare can make more characters with this level of depth and also bring her back.

I think you give her too much credit tbh, but maybe I worded things a bit more harsly than i meant. I don't think Merril is completely terrible, she aint. But deep? You point out she has a lot of conflict and whilst true, doesnt a deep character make. For one thing the whole staying in clan vs desire to help clan thing was not fleshed out well at all; there was very little character depth there.

 I think you are overblowing the acceptance by Hawke's squad as a blood mage as well. That whole theme isn't consistent at all in the DA universe which doesn't help, and the companion discussions regarding this aspect never really move more deeply than "i think its bad that you are a blood mage" "I'm not listenin!". The only real exception is Anders vs Merril where there can be semi-interesting comparisons made between their situations, and there is a decent point or two made regarding the religion difference. This was the only cultural difference I found to not be obvious/predictable hence the comments about culture clash zzz

Regarding the subtle dry humor; it wasn't all that subtle really, was it? Most of them were lengthy monologues were they not? It's been a while since I played DA2 but iirc this was the case, and usually it was just in the form of a mislead (that she was naive about something) into light mockery. I think you are reading too much into that stuff frankly.

[Knight of Dane]

It's up for interpretation imbs, just like any other character.

I think it speaks well for the whole quest line surrounding Merrill that keeps being the basis for new threads discussing her all the time.

She's certainly not the character with the longest threads, but she keeps popping up because her conflicts and character is much more grey than say Anders or Fenris who are just basically unsympathetic to each their opposite side.

Merrill shows a great deal of compassion and wisdom at several occations and challenges the general view towards Blood Magic since she and Hawke are basically the only two Blood Mages with sense in their mind during the entirety of the game.
Perhaps even in general, off the top of my head I can only really remember Jowan as another 'good' blood mage.

[Potato Cat]

I love Merrill, I'd like to see her develop further, perhaps into a champion for the (city) elves. Surely in a mage-templar war, people are going to be getting a way with a lot of crimes against elves.

[StElmo]

imbs wrote...

StElmo wrote...

She's well written because she has inner conflict (staying in clan vs desire to help clan), personal conflict (acceptance by Hawke's squad as a blood mage) and extra personal conflict (elven cultural ways vs kirkwall ways) - ontop of this she has a sense of subtle dry humor which is often mistaken for naivety from other characters, which she uses to mask occaisional genuine naivety.

There's a lot of depth there and I hope BioWare can make more characters with this level of depth and also bring her back.

I think you give her too much credit tbh, but maybe I worded things a bit more harsly than i meant. I don't think Merril is completely terrible, she aint. But deep? You point out she has a lot of conflict and whilst true, doesnt a deep character make. For one thing the whole staying in clan vs desire to help clan thing was not fleshed out well at all; there was very little character depth there.

 I think you are overblowing the acceptance by Hawke's squad as a blood mage as well. That whole theme isn't consistent at all in the DA universe which doesn't help, and the companion discussions regarding this aspect never really move more deeply than "i think its bad that you are a blood mage" "I'm not listenin!". The only real exception is Anders vs Merril where there can be semi-interesting comparisons made between their situations, and there is a decent point or two made regarding the religion difference. This was the only cultural difference I found to not be obvious/predictable hence the comments about culture clash zzz

Regarding the subtle dry humor; it wasn't all that subtle really, was it? Most of them were lengthy monologues were they not? It's been a while since I played DA2 but iirc this was the case, and usually it was just in the form of a mislead (that she was naive about something) into light mockery. I think you are reading too much into that stuff frankly.

1. Actually conflict is a deep character make, because true character is revealed through choices under pressure, which comes from conflict. It's pretty well established narrative theory.

Merrill chooses to research the mirror instead of stay with her clan - , after being pressured by them, this reveals something about her character, it adds to her depth - this all eventually adds up when you consider all the choices she makes with these conflicts.

Similar to how Isabella runs off and returns, this reveals more about her character too.

2. Anders vs Merril, + hawke is what I mean by this conflict. And if you pay attention you notice a lot of dialogue between those two in regards to their philosophical differences. Sure maybe the rest of the squad could have discussed blood magic with Merrill, but thats not her character's fault.

3. Culture clash trope may be common, but it's not merril's only defining feature and I rather she have it as a bonus then not at all. Also, it's where most of the humour comes from.

4. The humour is pretty subtle, because you spend the first hour with her thinking "is she really that oblivious?" then you begin to notice how outlandish her comments are getting, and the rest of the team begin to think she is joking, to which merril hints she is.

This is a fun little development and plays with the percieved character and true character

5. Most importantly, people often don't like Merril because:

• They have a presumption about blood magic being wrong.
• Therefore they dislike merril - in-world.
• This does not mean she is a badly written character, but that she illicits a certain response from players with certain in-game viewpoints about the world.

People who agree with Merril's point of view will naturally like her more.

I don't like Anders in-game, but I absolutely would not object to him returning. I don't presume everybody has the same subjective in-world reaction to the same characters I do.

Modifié par StElmo, 11 février 2013 - 05:55 .

[The Six Path of Pain]

Meh I don't really care for her,but I know she has fans so why not...Tho it's gotta make sense not just some random cameo and if she died in DAII she should stay dead.

[Kidd]

A returning Merrill would a happy Kidd make. There are numerous lessons she could teach the Dalish, different ones depending on if she was a friend or rival as well.

And uh, basically I'd never complain about more Merrill. Fantastic character! So many laughs, so many feels~

[Gamercat]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



Merrill is blameless.

Yeah no..... Merril is far from blameless, here's the thing. Merril made the choice to use blood magic. The keeper made the choice to protect her from posession. The entire death of the clan could be blamed on the keeper, but the keeper wouldn't have made the choice she did, had merril used some common sense when it comes to consorting with demons (Don't do it). So in a sense the death of the entire clan can be blamed on Merril for the choice she made. Had the keeper not become possessed herself, then Merril probably would have been possessed and either died, or killed a lot of people. So either way, there is death with each choice, simply because of merril's idiotic, and unthough out descisions.

[Fraq Hound]

I liked Merrill in DA2, she was probably my favorite.

Please, do NOT bring her back.

New characters, no cameo's.

Thanks!

[Reznore57]

I love Merrill !
She annoyed me a great deal in DA2 ,because I didn't agree with her "mirror" thing.
It's a huge leap of faith to think that Eluvian are gonna help the Dalish , when nobody knows much about them , they look like they have been designed in hell , oh and that particular one used to be tainted.

But I'd really like to see her in the future , she has a keeper training , used blood magic ( and didn't turn out to be too crazy^^) , lived with Dalish and then among humans.
She has potentials.
It's a little sad if it stop there : tried to restore eluvian for ten years and failed isn't great.
Besides I feel like DA needs strong elven characters ,because elven history is pretty much like Merrill's.Tried to fight human , failed.
I mean it's been like hundred of years since nothing significant happened in elven history , no?

She could become a legendary keeper , I don't know.

[SgtElias]

StElmo wrote...

What do you think BSN do you think she'll make an appearence?

I'd be surprised if she doesn't make an appearance. Not that there's been any official word, but I guess I just assumed that most former companions would show up at least once.

I liked Merrill very much, and would love to see her return in virtually any capacity other than as a companion. Before Dragon Age 2 came out, I wanted all our old companions to come back, game after game. But now, I think I'd prefer to have maybe one return, and then have a completely new cast of characters to get to know.

And really, if anyone is going to return as a companion, I want it to be Varric.

Anyway, yes! I liked Merrill also, and would love to see her again for Inquisition.

[Corker]

Darth Death wrote...

Merrill is a rocket scientist. True story. 

This is why I love her.  She reads exactly as an engineer to me.

(And I have an Audacity of my very own, when you get down to it.  So it really resonates with me.)

Knight of Dane wrote...

Yeah, it pretty much sums up what Fenarel says "the keeper loved you, more than the clan it seems"
Motherly pride corrupted apparently [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

Never be a mother in a DA game.  Ever.  You will either die or else be a Bad Mommy, or possibly die to make up for having been a Bad Mommy.  If you are a minor character, choices such as "murder my baby" or "run for the surface world" will be determined by the PC.

Felsi in Awakening and Robbed Lothering Elf Mom in Origins buck the trend.  But it's not good odds.

[vortex216]

I would prefer it if I never saw her again, although I wouldn't mind hearing about her. I did not like her character at all. I guess she could serve some purpose in the plot of the next game, but couldn't they just make a new character?

[Knight of Dane]

hawkman96j wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



Merrill is blameless.

Yeah no..... Merril is far from blameless, here's the thing. Merril made the choice to use blood magic. The keeper made the choice to protect her from posession. The entire death of the clan could be blamed on the keeper, but the keeper wouldn't have made the choice she did, had merril used some common sense when it comes to consorting with demons (Don't do it). So in a sense the death of the entire clan can be blamed on Merril for the choice she made. Had the keeper not become possessed herself, then Merril probably would have been possessed and either died, or killed a lot of people. So either way, there is death with each choice, simply because of merril's idiotic, and unthough out descisions.

No it cannot. Merrill left to keep the clan safe.

The keeper - their leader - chose for no explained reason that their clan should stay on the cursed mountain well knowing that a demon had influence in the area.

Marethari chose to become posessed, not because Merrill used blood magic, but because she wanted Merrill broken down so she would give up in her quest and come back.

Motherly pride corrupted by the demon.

[Gamercat]

Knight of Dane wrote...

hawkman96j wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...



Merrill is blameless.

Yeah no..... Merril is far from blameless, here's the thing. Merril made the choice to use blood magic. The keeper made the choice to protect her from posession. The entire death of the clan could be blamed on the keeper, but the keeper wouldn't have made the choice she did, had merril used some common sense when it comes to consorting with demons (Don't do it). So in a sense the death of the entire clan can be blamed on Merril for the choice she made. Had the keeper not become possessed herself, then Merril probably would have been possessed and either died, or killed a lot of people. So either way, there is death with each choice, simply because of merril's idiotic, and unthough out descisions.

No it cannot. Merrill left to keep the clan safe.

The keeper - their leader - chose for no explained reason that their clan should stay on the cursed mountain well knowing that a demon had influence in the area.

Marethari chose to become posessed, not because Merrill used blood magic, but because she wanted Merrill broken down so she would give up in her quest and come back.

Motherly pride corrupted by the demon.

Yeah and if Merril had not consorted with the demon in the first place, there would be no issue. Therefore she is to blame. She keeps saying "I can do this, I can control it!" And how many times have we heard blood mages say that before getting possessed/ slaugheterd in the dragon age universe? In my opinon, merril is a character who keeps her head in the clouds and doesn't think about what she does, which in turn affects others. Because she is so naive, others step in her path to protect her and they end up getting hurt.

[DialupToaster]

no because thats all people will talk about... their hate for merril that is; because we love to hate Merril to vent our rage-hate of furious angry rage.

Modifié par randomchasegurney, 12 février 2013 - 12:39 .

[Thibax]

We need Keeper's powers!
I am with Nature!
Green spells deserves a space in DA world.

And Keepers are so important to DA story ^^

[LobselVith8]

hawkman96j wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Merrill is blameless. 

Yeah no..... Merril is far from blameless, here's the thing. Merril made the choice to use blood magic. The keeper made the choice to protect her from posession. The entire death of the clan could be blamed on the keeper, but the keeper wouldn't have made the choice she did, had merril used some common sense when it comes to consorting with demons (Don't do it). So in a sense the death of the entire clan can be blamed on Merril for the choice she made. Had the keeper not become possessed herself, then Merril probably would have been possessed and either died, or killed a lot of people. So either way, there is death with each choice, simply because of merril's idiotic, and unthough out descisions. 

Merrill isn't responsible for the actions of another grown woman (Marethari) who was acting of her own free will. Merrill took precautions to keep people safe when she thought Audacity had escaped (since it was silent in Act III), while the Keeper kept the clan nearby (even though they should have left years ago), didn't warn anyone about her actions (until it was too late), and tried to murder Merrill as an abomination!

Furthermore, who told Marethari that releasing Audacity would protect Merrill? Was it Audacity? Then that makes Marethari a pawn of Audacity for falling for the machinations of a being who wanted to be free from it's prison.

And the Sabrae clan can be blamed for attempted murder in cold blood.

I highly respected Merrill. She was being proactive about the plight of the People while her brethren simply hoped to stumble upon a solution to their plight.

[SeptimusMagistos]

hawkman96j wrote...

Yeah and if Merril had not consorted with the demon in the first place, there would be no issue. Therefore she is to blame.

No. Let's get this straight: Merrill used blood magic. Merrill dealt with a demon. And neither of those things hurt her or anyone around her because she behaved carefully and responsibly. Like any good researcher dealing with hazardous subjects, she took precautions but didn't just stop.

Whatever deaths happened among the elves were the result of their reactions to Merrill's research. It was their fear, their anger, and their distrust that did them in. If they'd just stayed calm and let Merrill do her thing, everything would have been fine.

If Merrill had hurt someone with a blood magic ritual or accidentally let the demon loose while talking to it? Then that would be her fault. But if someone runs straight into a monster or gets themselves possessed by a demon because they'd rather be reckless than trust Merrill? Then that's on them. Merrill never hurt them. She never laid a finger on any elf unless it was in self-defense.

[Gamercat]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

hawkman96j wrote...

Yeah and if Merril had not consorted with the demon in the first place, there would be no issue. Therefore she is to blame.

No. Let's get this straight: Merrill used blood magic. Merrill dealt with a demon. And neither of those things hurt her or anyone around her because she behaved carefully and responsibly. Like any good researcher dealing with hazardous subjects, she took precautions but didn't just stop.

Whatever deaths happened among the elves were the result of their reactions to Merrill's research. It was their fear, their anger, and their distrust that did them in. If they'd just stayed calm and let Merrill do her thing, everything would have been fine.

If Merrill had hurt someone with a blood magic ritual or accidentally let the demon loose while talking to it? Then that would be her fault. But if someone runs straight into a monster or gets themselves possessed by a demon because they'd rather be reckless than trust Merrill? Then that's on them. Merrill never hurt them. She never laid a finger on any elf unless it was in self-defense.

Fair enough, but the point I am trying to make is that if merril had not done any of this in the first place, the possession and death of her keeper, and the death of her entire clan would not have happend. Inevitably something bad was going to happen.