153 réponses à ce sujet

[Argentoid]

I am serious. Meow. 

Endings make perfect since at face value, there is no need to interpret anything. They are perfect and are great and give closure. They make since. 

If your an Artard. 

Beep boop, son. Beep boop.

[TurianRebel212]

Argentoid wrote...

I am serious. Meow. 

Endings make perfect since at face value, there is no need to interpret anything. They are perfect and are great and give closure. They make since. 

If your an Artard. 

Beep boop, son. Beep boop.

I just watched your vids. Lol. classic. Really. Really funny. 

[Argentoid]

Restrider wrote...

I would argue why the Guardian would offer Destroy and is in general genuine, but that's a whole other discussion.

To take everything in the ends at face value... I have no words for this.

The Guardian/Catalyst offers Destroy because the Crucible "changed" him... "created new possibilities".


He got hacked by Anonymous, in other words.

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 février 2013 - 12:52 .

[TurianRebel212]

I never bought into the idea that The 'Intelligence' that leviathan speaks of is also the 'catalyst'.

In the original script Javik was the catalyst. But it got scraped.

But lets look at the definition of 'catalyst'. This is from merriam webster-

Definition of CATALYST

1
: a substance that enables a chemical reaction to proceed at a usually faster rate or under different conditions (as at a lower temperature) than otherwise possible
2
: an agent that provokes or speeds significant change or action.

These things don't describe the 'catalyst' or intelligence or guardian or space child. Whatever. They don't. For one it does not have chemical component. It is an AI. The chemical component would have to be organic of some kind ( more on that later). It doesn't have substance it's more of an essence. Secondly, it's not really an agent that promotes a great change or action. The 'intelligence' has been doing the same thing for eons and eons, cycle after cycle it hasn't changed...... Until, Shepard.

Shepard is the catalyst. Shep is special. And I do agree on that. Everyone says it. Even that old fish Leviathan recognizes Shepard is an anomally and. I mean if Reapers could be 'crushin' then sheps their valentine. They love this guy. Especially Harby. You know, wanting to perserve sheps body and create this cycles perfect reaper molded after humanity... But meh..... Doesn't mean a thing.

Anyway's that's what I think about the 'intelligence'. It's just an A.I

Synthesis isn't available until shep can 'add his energy' to the crucible. If that doesn't fit what a 'catalyst' does then I don't know what does.

The old saying. "He/she/it is a catalyst of change". Sounds like Shep to me.


I also think that the 'crucible' isn't the device that the alliance built. That's the weapon that must be fired by the catalyst.

The 'crucible' is the meeting with the 'intelligence'.

[Argentoid]

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I never bought into the idea that The 'Intelligence' that leviathan speaks of is also the 'catalyst'.

In the original script Javik was the catalyst. But it got scraped.

But lets look at the definition of 'catalyst'. This is from merriam webster-

Definition of CATALYST

1
: a substance that enables a chemical reaction to proceed at a usually faster rate or under different conditions (as at a lower temperature) than otherwise possible
2
: an agent that provokes or speeds significant change or action.

These things don't describe the 'catalyst' or intelligence or guardian or space child. Whatever. They don't. For one it does not have chemical component. It is an AI. The chemical component would have to be organic of some kind ( more on that later). It doesn't have substance it's more of an essence. Secondly, it's not really an agent that promotes a great change or action. The 'intelligence' has been doing the same thing for eons and eons, cycle after cycle it hasn't changed...... Until, Shepard.

Shepard is the catalyst. Shep is special. And I do agree on that. Everyone says it. Even that old fish Leviathan recognizes Shepard is an anomally and. I mean if Reapers could be 'crushin' then sheps their valentine. They love this guy. Especially Harby. You know, wanting to perserve sheps body and create this cycles perfect reaper molded after humanity... But meh..... Doesn't mean a thing.

Anyway's that's what I think about the 'intelligence'. It's just an A.I

Synthesis isn't available until shep can 'add his energy' to the crucible. If that doesn't fit what a 'catalyst' does then I don't know what does.

The old saying. "He/she/it is a catalyst of change". Sounds like Shep to me.


I also think that the 'crucible' isn't the device that the alliance built. That's the weapon that must be fired by the catalyst.

The 'crucible' is the meeting with the 'intelligence'.

The Leviathan never says "YEAH BRO, THE INTELLEGENCE IS THE CAT-A-LYST BECOZ IS TRUE STORY" maybe because of trying to keep the Catalyst foreshadowed (even if we still know how it ends), ala Mac Walters "speculations for everyone!!11!".

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 février 2013 - 01:15 .

[Indy_S]

Still, I'm curious what this idea was meant to accomplish. To me, it seems to explain why Shepard can breathe in the chamber and nothing else.

[TurianRebel212]

Argentoid wrote...

TurianRebel212 wrote...

I never bought into the idea that The 'Intelligence' that leviathan speaks of is also the 'catalyst'.

In the original script Javik was the catalyst. But it got scraped.

But lets look at the definition of 'catalyst'. This is from merriam webster-

Definition of CATALYST

1
: a substance that enables a chemical reaction to proceed at a usually faster rate or under different conditions (as at a lower temperature) than otherwise possible
2
: an agent that provokes or speeds significant change or action.

These things don't describe the 'catalyst' or intelligence or guardian or space child. Whatever. They don't. For one it does not have chemical component. It is an AI. The chemical component would have to be organic of some kind ( more on that later). It doesn't have substance it's more of an essence. Secondly, it's not really an agent that promotes a great change or action. The 'intelligence' has been doing the same thing for eons and eons, cycle after cycle it hasn't changed...... Until, Shepard.

Shepard is the catalyst. Shep is special. And I do agree on that. Everyone says it. Even that old fish Leviathan recognizes Shepard is an anomally and. I mean if Reapers could be 'crushin' then sheps their valentine. They love this guy. Especially Harby. You know, wanting to perserve sheps body and create this cycles perfect reaper molded after humanity... But meh..... Doesn't mean a thing.

Anyway's that's what I think about the 'intelligence'. It's just an A.I

Synthesis isn't available until shep can 'add his energy' to the crucible. If that doesn't fit what a 'catalyst' does then I don't know what does.

The old saying. "He/she/it is a catalyst of change". Sounds like Shep to me.


I also think that the 'crucible' isn't the device that the alliance built. That's the weapon that must be fired by the catalyst.

The 'crucible' is the meeting with the 'intelligence'.

The Leviathan never says "YEAH BRO, THE INTELLEGENCE IS THE CAT-A-LYST BECOZ IS TRUE STORY" maybe because of trying to keep the Catalyst foreshadowed (even if we still know how it ends), ala Mac Walters "speculations for everyone!!11!".

Yeap. Remember vendetta when talking about the catalyst. What does he say again? Something like 'it's existence was infered rather than known or concrete". Something like that, it's on thessia right before Lt. Cereal Leng came in. 

The more I think about it. Even taking the endings at 100% face value, it still feels like we're missing something. Like theres more to the story.

[Argentoid]

Indy_S wrote...

Still, I'm curious what this idea was meant to accomplish. To me, it seems to explain why Shepard can breathe in the chamber and nothing else.

I tried to explain:

- The connections between the Catalyst and the Leviathans


Plus, in my opinion, it doesn't make any sense for the three chambers to be there. If we take them at face value, they've been there for millions of years, and still nobody figured out that the Catalyst was there and that there's a strange Reaper-off button? It doesn't make any sense.

So, to me, the Catalyst, makes symbols (D, C and S, provided by the Crucible) to guide Shepard into making the final choice.

Modifié par Argentoid, 11 février 2013 - 01:23 .

[TurianRebel212]

ME3 is the ultimate ambiguous ending. It's the enigma of game endings. Never. And I mean NEVER have I witnessed anything like it.

[Wayning_Star]

we don't know who authored the choices menu, we're not sure who engineered the crucible. We do know that it controls the catalyst and the choices. That leaves Shep and the catalyst outside of blame for the choices. Even when Shep decides, it's really a moot point when the choices are not created by Shep. Shep is a pawn to the crucible and the choices menu. Not the catalyst who has been usurped by the crucible.

I've since given up on second guessing cinematics. I take the choices menu at face value and associate that with lore/codex. Takes the double standards out of the processing.(illusions)

[Auld Wulf]

@OP

Not at all a bad theory in all honesty. In fact, it sort of slots into what I'd been thinking.

I've been of the opinion that there's been a Catalyst/Harbinger power struggle for quite some time, now. That the two have been duking it out. The Catalyst is the more intelligent of the two, but in a position of little power, and Harbinger is exactly the inverse of that. I wouldn't mind betting that the initial human child was the Catalyst trying to communicate with Shepard.

The reapers were there, on earth, so it was probably it's best choice. But it was cut short and didn't really get a chance to tell Shepard anything; all it could do was convey its sense of hopelessness. That sense of hopelessness stuck with Shepard through her dreams. She could empathise with the position of this child (or creature) and, to a degree, it drove her.

So yes, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

[dorktainian]

Wayning_Star wrote...

 we're not sure who engineered the crucible. We do know that it controls the catalyst and the choices. That leaves Shep and the catalyst outside of blame for the choices. Even when Shep decides, it's really a moot point when the choices are not created by Shep. Shep is a pawn to the crucible and the choices menu. Not the catalyst who has been usurped by the crucible.

      

Never underestimate the reapers.

OK the crudible.  From what i can understand it is unknown as to whom designed it (because all information has been erased by the reapers cleansing the galaxy) and yet Liar a states it is a weapon of unquantifiable power.  How does she know this?  Nobody knows what it does, and for good reason.  The reapers remove all traces of information fromt he cycles unless leaving the information serves their interests.

Therefore the crudible is there because it is in the reapers interests.

Why would the reapers be so unconcerned about leaving behind the schematics of a huge power source that would take the combines resources of the galaxy to construct, with the 'promise' of it destroying the reapers if it would destroy them?  Because it would tie up resources.  It's a red herring.

Because when the Catalyst (starjar is NOT the catalyst) actually arrives to make the choice he/she will be undergoing indoctrination and will always pick the 'wrong' choice, just like the protheans did, and every cycle before them.  What shep sees before him is not 'the catalyst' but a 'reaper'.  you know?  the things that will kill everything in the galaxy?  . 

[Argentoid]

dorktainian wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

 we're not sure who engineered the crucible. We do know that it controls the catalyst and the choices. That leaves Shep and the catalyst outside of blame for the choices. Even when Shep decides, it's really a moot point when the choices are not created by Shep. Shep is a pawn to the crucible and the choices menu. Not the catalyst who has been usurped by the crucible.

      

Never underestimate the reapers.

OK the crudible.  From what i can understand it is unknown as to whom designed it (because all information has been erased by the reapers cleansing the galaxy) and yet Liar a states it is a weapon of unquantifiable power.  How does she know this?  Nobody knows what it does, and for good reason.  The reapers remove all traces of information fromt he cycles unless leaving the information serves their interests.

Therefore the crudible is there because it is in the reapers interests.

Why would the reapers be so unconcerned about leaving behind the schematics of a huge power source that would take the combines resources of the galaxy to construct, with the 'promise' of it destroying the reapers if it would destroy them?  Because it would tie up resources.  It's a red herring.

Because when the Catalyst (starjar is NOT the catalyst) actually arrives to make the choice he/she will be undergoing indoctrination and will always pick the 'wrong' choice, just like the protheans did, and every cycle before them.  What shep sees before him is not 'the catalyst' but a 'reaper'.  you know?  the things that will kill everything in the galaxy?  . 

9000 bucks that the next DLC will tell us that the Keepers designed the Crucible.

[Biotic Sage]

I actually sort of like this theory. It doesn't conflict with anything presented visually in the game; in fact some of the visuals could potentially lend themselves to this theory. Also it doesn't contradict the tangible, real world results we see after the Crucible is activated. The Catalyst interfacing in, let's say, for simplicity's sake, THE MATRIX with Shepard's mind is actually a really cool idea. Very Neuromancer, very cool. But as we see in Neuromancer, the Matrix is quite real and very relevant to the physical reality we live in; it just operates as a different plane of existence. I definitely don't mind this theory, it's growing on me more and more. We already knew there was some sort of mind-link or mind-extracting going on because the Catalyst appears as the boy from Earth (also speaking in Shepard's voice, though I suppose mind-linking isn't necessary for that).

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 11 février 2013 - 06:09 .

[Argentoid]

Biotic Sage wrote...

I actually sort of like this theory. It doesn't conflict with anything presented visually in the game; in fact some of the visuals could potentially lend themselves to this theory. Also it doesn't contradict the tangible, real world results we see after the Crucible is activated. The Catalyst interfacing in, let's say, for simplicity's sake, THE MATRIX with Shepard's mind is actually a really cool idea. Very Neuromancer, very cool. But as we see in Neuromancer, the Matrix is quite real and very relevant to the physical reality we live in; it just operates as a different plane of existence. I definitely don't mind this theory, it's growing on me more and more. We already knew there was some sort of mind-link or mind-extracting going on because the Catalyst appears as the boy from Earth (also speaking in Shepard's voice, though I suppose mind-linking isn't necessary for that).

Exactly! :happy:

[robarcool]

Don't try. Just come to MP. You will feel better.

[Argentoid]

robarcool wrote...

Don't try. Just come to MP. You will feel better.

Wait wut?

Me = confused

[robarcool]

Argentoid wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Don't try. Just come to MP. You will feel better.

Wait wut?

Me = confused

I left all hope of them ever making a sensible ending. So I started playing MP. I don't even bother with SP now. No SP, no ending, no confusion and disappointment.

[Argentoid]

robarcool wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Don't try. Just come to MP. You will feel better.

Wait wut?

Me = confused

I left all hope of them ever making a sensible ending. So I started playing MP. I don't even bother with SP now. No SP, no ending, no confusion and disappointment.

 Only pew pew pew

[TJBartlemus]

Argentoid wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Don't try. Just come to MP. You will feel better.

Wait wut?

Me = confused

I left all hope of them ever making a sensible ending. So I started playing MP. I don't even bother with SP now. No SP, no ending, no confusion and disappointment.

 Only pew pew pew

With missions. Don't forget missions. 

You might also want to check out and read the Waking Nightmare Theory. You might like it. Some things in it are parallel with some of your ideas.

http://social.biowar.../index/13474338

[Argentoid]

TJBartlemus wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

robarcool wrote...

Don't try. Just come to MP. You will feel better.

Wait wut?

Me = confused

I left all hope of them ever making a sensible ending. So I started playing MP. I don't even bother with SP now. No SP, no ending, no confusion and disappointment.

 Only pew pew pew

With missions. Don't forget missions. 

You might also want to check out and read the Waking Nightmare Theory. You might like it. Some things in it are parallel with some of your ideas.

http://social.biowar.../index/13474338

I fear no theory... but that POST... it scares me.

[Argentoid]

TurianRebel212 wrote...


Yeap. Remember vendetta when talking about the catalyst. What does he say again? Something like 'it's existence was infered rather than known or concrete". Something like that, it's on thessia right before Lt. Cereal Leng came in. 

The more I think about it. Even taking the endings at 100% face value, it still feels like we're missing something. Like theres more to the story.

Maybe because Casey likes to do this when telling a story.

[Hadeedak]

I'm, in general, inclined to agree with you. At the very least, the Intelligence is interfacing enough with Shepard to appear as the child. I feel like it has a lot of callbacks (or forwards, or whatever) to the Leviathan scene, and I think we're supposed to believe something similar is happening, that part of it may be in the head of our illustrious character.

That being said, that doesn't make it 'less' real or a trick, which is where I think it diverges from IT. I think it's just how it may interface with organics, as much as it can. Whee!

[Argentoid]

Hadeedak wrote...

I'm, in general, inclined to agree with you. At the very least, the Intelligence is interfacing enough with Shepard to appear as the child. I feel like it has a lot of callbacks (or forwards, or whatever) to the Leviathan scene, and I think we're supposed to believe something similar is happening, that part of it may be in the head of our illustrious character.

That being said, that doesn't make it 'less' real or a trick, which is where I think it diverges from IT. I think it's just how it may interface with organics, as much as it can. Whee!

Exactly. I only hope this whole thing will be somewhat answered in the next DLC.

[Argentoid]

Argentoid wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

I'm, in general, inclined to agree with you. At the very least, the Intelligence is interfacing enough with Shepard to appear as the child. I feel like it has a lot of callbacks (or forwards, or whatever) to the Leviathan scene, and I think we're supposed to believe something similar is happening, that part of it may be in the head of our illustrious character.

That being said, that doesn't make it 'less' real or a trick, which is where I think it diverges from IT. I think it's just how it may interface with organics, as much as it can. Whee!

Exactly. I only hope this whole thing will be somewhat answered in the next DLC.

Pretty much confirmed that it won't happen. Dammit.