153 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Conversation between Shepard and the Catalyst is mental. That was obvious even in the original ending.

IT was about making Destroy the only ending, not about mental conversations. That's why IT was pure nonsense or just a parody with very few people involved in 4000-pages-long-spam-and-flood-discussion. And that's why IT was prohibited for public discussions.

[AlanC9]

Argentoid wrote...

In the leaked script, it was also detailed that the Crucible made the Catalyst loose control of the Reapers for a brief moment... so I still think that the Crucible is what I said before. Well, maybe not a hacking device, but you see my point.

You got a link to that? The leaked script version I saw didn't have that conversation in it.

[RainbowDazed]

I approve this theory.

[SirLugash]

Seival wrote...

Conversation between Shepard and the Catalyst is mental. That was obvious even in the original ending.

IT was about making Destroy the only ending, not about mental conversations. That's why IT was pure nonsense or just a parody with very few people involved in 4000-pages-long-spam-and-flood-discussion. And that's why IT was prohibited for public discussions.

Well nope.
IT was meant as a bridge to a satisfying ending that was yet to come.
Destroy was supposed to be the only real choice to continue further, that's correct, but not because it's the only correct ending as the original endings wouldn't be endings anymore.

[Argentoid]

AlanC9 wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

In the leaked script, it was also detailed that the Crucible made the Catalyst loose control of the Reapers for a brief moment... so I still think that the Crucible is what I said before. Well, maybe not a hacking device, but you see my point.

You got a link to that? The leaked script version I saw didn't have that conversation in it.

There's another script version with lots of dialogue, unlike the infamous script you probably saw, which only has plot points. And AFAIK, there's no more links for it. But I'll try to get you one as soon as possible.

If not, well...

[Ned Starks Head]

I like this theory. Probably the only one I'll ever like. HOPEFULLY the only one I'll ever like.

Need a beer.

Nice.

[GerojSvK]

This is what I thought on my first time playthrough, but it was poorly executed.

[Argentoid]

GerojSvK wrote...

This is what I thought on my first time playthrough, but it was poorly executed.

Sadly, I came up with this after finishing the Leviathan DLC.

[PocoToro]

Thanks, I never liked IT. I always thought the reason the reapers where after Shepard's body in ME2, was that he could not be indoctrinated. They wanted to know why.

[Argentoid]

PocoToro wrote...

Thanks, I never liked IT. I always thought the reason the reapers where after Shepard's body in ME2, was that he could not be indoctrinated. They wanted to know why.

Dude, how many times... my theory is not IT


ITS NOT IT

[PocoToro]

Argentoid wrote...

PocoToro wrote...

Thanks, I never liked IT. I always thought the reason the reapers where after Shepard's body in ME2, was that he could not be indoctrinated. They wanted to know why.

Dude, how many times... my theory is not IT


ITS NOT IT

I was not clear................Thank you for your theory. Your Ideas fit what I have been thinking from the first time I played the games. I always thought that the reason the reapers where after Shepard's body in ME2, was that he could not be indoctrinated. 
 

[Argentoid]

PocoToro wrote...

Argentoid wrote...

PocoToro wrote...

Thanks, I never liked IT. I always thought the reason the reapers where after Shepard's body in ME2, was that he could not be indoctrinated. They wanted to know why.

Dude, how many times... my theory is not IT


ITS NOT IT

I was not clear................Thank you for your theory. Your Ideas fit what I have been thinking from the first time I played the games. I always thought that the reason the reapers where after Shepard's body in ME2, was that he could not be indoctrinated. 
 

Oh, alrighty then... my bad.

[AnOniMouse]

I agree with Jason, after the Space Elevator happens, he would just lie there and the the decision and communication is done on a mental level. I was wondering why blowing up some valve would trigger the crucible to release a very precise anti synthetic blast. Not just an EM pulse, just targeting advanced AIs.
By all rights, the whole thing would just detonate if you messed with a vital component like that. So its symbolic.
They still happen but its not done awake.

[AlexMBrennan]

Theory... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I was wondering why blowing up some valve would trigger the crucible to release a very precise anti synthetic blast.

Why does detonating the conventional explosive charges used in nuclear weapon cause a runaway nuclear chain reaction? Hardly inconceivable.

Besides, it might have been designed that way because Catalyst predicted that Shepard would immediately discard a solution that was so "obviously" a trap.
Or maybe it is a trap which is made so obvious because Catalyst predicted that Shepard would think that such an obvious trap could not possibly be a trap?

[Argentoid]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Theory... You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I was wondering why blowing up some valve would trigger the crucible to release a very precise anti synthetic blast.

Why does detonating the conventional explosive charges used in nuclear weapon cause a runaway nuclear chain reaction? Hardly inconceivable.

Besides, it might have been designed that way because Catalyst predicted that Shepard would immediately discard a solution that was so "obviously" a trap.
Or maybe it is a trap which is made so obvious because Catalyst predicted that Shepard would think that such an obvious trap could not possibly be a trap?

Da wut? I don't even...

Explain yourself! I command you!

[AlexMBrennan]

It's a form of i know you know I know - by saying that shooting a tube is unlike any activation switch for a machine you have ever seen, you arbitrarily stop at a level of deception that is convenient for your argument.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

There was no elevator.

The Crucible docked. After Shepard collapsed everything became symbolic. The Intelligence interfaced with Shepard via the panel in front of her. In reality there was a Keeper standing by. The conversation, the decision chamber the entire thing was in Shepard's mind. The choice was made within Shepard's mind. All actions are based on stuff like Overlord, the Geth Consensus, and Leviathan. Just symbolism because Shepard was familiar with those things: Control rods for control; a beam for beaming out ones DNA to the galaxy; and shooting a tube with a gun for Destroy. The Keeper was there to do Shepard's bidding via instructions from the Intelligence. Shepard was the Catalyst.

1) If Shepard chose Control, the Keeper zapped Shepard and transported her via teleportation (which exists in the white beam) for processing into room containing the Intelligence, and uploaded Shepard's mind via a machine similar to Overlord. The Blue beam was fired.

2) If Shepard chose Synthesis, the Keeper took a samples of Shepard's, spinal fluid, blood, and tissue samples, and Shepard died on the platform. The green beam fires doing blah blah blah.

3) If Shepard chose Destroy, the Red Beam fires, the Intelligence is destroyed along with the Reapers, and synthetic life. If high EMS Shepard survives on the platform. The Keeper leaves.

4) Refuse. -- The Keeper leaves. The Intelligence terminates the interface and continues the harvest.

I've said this before. So yes, I agree with your basic premise.

[M74]

Leviathan has no connection to the ghost kid. Or not as much as you wish to think.

The Leviathans created an intelligence with the mandate to preserve life.
And it goes: as the Intelligence evolved it grew an army to collect data for the answer the intelligence needed. Until it finds the answer, the cycle will continue (aka The Harvest).
An excellent analogy is Star Trek The Motion Picture where Voyager seeks its creator.

The created intelligence is what the Volus believe to be the life form on Klencory.
But they didn't know what the real deal is with the beings of light.

If Leviathan would have created the autistic ghost kid, it would have been contradiction to what Leviathan is as Leviathan let Shepard return to the surface. He would have no reason to deceive Shepard a second time on the Citadel using the ghost kid.

The "intelligence" or the beings of light from Klencory (sorry if misspelled), are the solution to end the conflict. But getting them into negotiations is not as simple as Red Green Blue as BioWare thinks. In fact, the given choice-endings from the ghost kid are pathetic and hilarious and contradict the ghost kid's intelligence. Red, Blue, Green!!?? What?? Did the intelligence suddenly get Alzheimer's or what?? Just ridiculous , why can't the kid throw the switch?? Gimme a break....
I thought we are in charge here with the crucible and not a silly ghost kid.

Anyways... BioWare... have it YOUR way....

[PocoToro]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

There was no elevator.

The Crucible docked. After Shepard collapsed everything became symbolic. The Intelligence interfaced with Shepard via the panel in front of her. In reality there was a Keeper standing by. The conversation, the decision chamber the entire thing was in Shepard's mind. The choice was made within Shepard's mind. All actions are based on stuff like Overlord, the Geth Consensus, and Leviathan. Just symbolism because Shepard was familiar with those things: Control rods for control; a beam for beaming out ones DNA to the galaxy; and shooting a tube with a gun for Destroy. The Keeper was there to do Shepard's bidding via instructions from the Intelligence. Shepard was the Catalyst.

1) If Shepard chose Control, the Keeper zapped Shepard and transported her via teleportation (which exists in the white beam) for processing into room containing the Intelligence, and uploaded Shepard's mind via a machine similar to Overlord. The Blue beam was fired.

2) If Shepard chose Synthesis, the Keeper took a samples of Shepard's, spinal fluid, blood, and tissue samples, and Shepard died on the platform. The green beam fires doing blah blah blah.

3) If Shepard chose Destroy, the Red Beam fires, the Intelligence is destroyed along with the Reapers, and synthetic life. If high EMS Shepard survives on the platform. The Keeper leaves.

4) Refuse. -- The Keeper leaves. The Intelligence terminates the interface and continues the harvest.

I've said this before. So yes, I agree with your basic premise.

My thought on #3.............The keeper throws Shepard down the Conduit. The “Beam” is called “Conduit” when you hit the “look for” command. No more reapers, no need for this to be laying around cluttering up the place. Then you find the body in the rubble in London.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

PocoToro wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

There was no elevator.

The Crucible docked. After Shepard collapsed everything became symbolic. The Intelligence interfaced with Shepard via the panel in front of her. In reality there was a Keeper standing by. The conversation, the decision chamber the entire thing was in Shepard's mind. The choice was made within Shepard's mind. All actions are based on stuff like Overlord, the Geth Consensus, and Leviathan. Just symbolism because Shepard was familiar with those things: Control rods for control; a beam for beaming out ones DNA to the galaxy; and shooting a tube with a gun for Destroy. The Keeper was there to do Shepard's bidding via instructions from the Intelligence. Shepard was the Catalyst.

1) If Shepard chose Control, the Keeper zapped Shepard and transported her via teleportation (which exists in the white beam) for processing into room containing the Intelligence, and uploaded Shepard's mind via a machine similar to Overlord. The Blue beam was fired.

2) If Shepard chose Synthesis, the Keeper took a samples of Shepard's, spinal fluid, blood, and tissue samples, and Shepard died on the platform. The green beam fires doing blah blah blah.

3) If Shepard chose Destroy, the Red Beam fires, the Intelligence is destroyed along with the Reapers, and synthetic life. If high EMS Shepard survives on the platform. The Keeper leaves.

4) Refuse. -- The Keeper leaves. The Intelligence terminates the interface and continues the harvest.

I've said this before. So yes, I agree with your basic premise.

My thought on #3.............The keeper throws Shepard down the Conduit. The “Beam” is called “Conduit” when you hit the “look for” command. No more reapers, no need for this to be laying around cluttering up the place. Then you find the body in the rubble in London.

Thought about that, too. Forgot to put that down. Thanks.

[Argentoid]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's a form of i know you know I know - by saying that shooting a tube is unlike any activation switch for a machine you have ever seen, you arbitrarily stop at a level of deception that is convenient for your argument.

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My level of english is not THAT good. So I don't understand. Call me dumb or something, but I seriously don't. But I sense that you don't like not even a single bit this whole Mind Interface Theory, if so, what would you change/add?

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The Crucible docked. After Shepard collapsed everything became symbolic. The Intelligence interfaced with Shepard via the panel in front of her. In reality there was a Keeper standing by. The conversation, the decision chamber the entire thing was in Shepard's mind. The choice was made within Shepard's mind. All actions are based on stuff like Overlord, the Geth Consensus, and Leviathan. Just symbolism because Shepard was familiar with those things: Control rods for control; a beam for beaming out ones DNA to the galaxy; and shooting a tube with a gun for Destroy. The Keeper was there to do Shepard's bidding via instructions from the Intelligence. Shepard was the Catalyst.

Nice! Will add.

Modifié par Argentoid, 24 avril 2013 - 12:50 .

[AnOniMouse]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's a form of i know you know I know - by saying that shooting a tube is unlike any activation switch for a machine you have ever seen, you arbitrarily stop at a level of deception that is convenient for your argument.

I understand, though contest, your point on nukes.
Physics is why they work. It makes sense. Bad example on your part, though I concede that maybe they are a trigger for a specific system that acts as a relay.
Even if it is a decent physical structure with a purpose, then even though this is a dream like state doesn't mean it can't not make no sense....Wait, I think I missed a quadruple negative...
Oh you know what I know you know I mean!
 I don't see why this explanation is so contraversal. It makes no attempt to deny the endings, nor does it excuse them if you defend them. It simply deals with why the kid is from your flashback, not a mini-Leviathan, or some other holographic interface design.

[hanshotfirs]

I love this, this is actually how i've interpreted it for some time, but worded MUCH better. Thanks, love it!

[Argentoid]

AnOniMouse wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's a form of i know you know I know - by saying that shooting a tube is unlike any activation switch for a machine you have ever seen, you arbitrarily stop at a level of deception that is convenient for your argument.

I understand, though contest, your point on nukes.
Physics is why they work. It makes sense. Bad example on your part, though I concede that maybe they are a trigger for a specific system that acts as a relay.
Even if it is a decent physical structure with a purpose, then even though this is a dream like state doesn't mean it can't not make no sense....Wait, I think I missed a quadruple negative...
Oh you know what I know you know I mean!
 I don't see why this explanation is so contraversal. It makes no attempt to deny the endings, nor does it excuse them if you defend them. It simply deals with why the kid is from your flashback, not a mini-Leviathan, or some other holographic interface design.

Bravo. 

Note here that when people tend to see things in a non-literal way, they get thrashed with the "2 deep 4 you" argument, and they go like "There's no such message! Nothing! Its just the way it is!  Don't look into things that already don't make any sense!"

I'm not defending the endings, I'm interpretating them. 

Not to mention those who go "Hurr Durr, INDCOTRAINASHON ZEORY WITH A NEU COUT OF PEINT"

[Vicious]

I like your interpretation and feel it links several factors that don't make sense/shouldn't be there with the fact that the endings actually happen. That said it's so oblique I doubt Bioware thought of putting it all together like that, particularly since they havent simply come out and said it and we are well after release.

But I do like it. so cheers.

Nobody should champion Indoc Theory anymore, the Refusal ending took a big steaming crap on it's face. Yes, I know about the husk eyes and multiple factors, they considered it but gave up.

Modifié par Vicious, 21 octobre 2013 - 08:42 .