281 réponses à ce sujet

[Indy_S]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I don't wilfully ignore it. I'm well aware of the over-sexualisation of the other characters. Given the sum total of over-sexualisation, I've got to ask, where do we draw the line?

We Either go back to ME1 where all humanoids shared 2 stock body shapes either male/female or we stop complaining about it all together.  People need to stop claiming it is only a problem with EDI.

General statement/response - not specifically at you, but you understand what i mean.

The third alternative is to have a variety of body types for both males and females. Generic NPC's can use one of several types while the designed NPC's can enjoy a more than binary choice.

[DirtySHISN0]

Indy_S wrote...


The third alternative is to have a variety of body types for both males and females. Generic NPC's can use one of several types while the designed NPC's can enjoy a more than binary choice.

True, but both you and i know - with EA publishing, that "Variety" is going to be Boob size L to XXL.

[Display Name Owner]

JBPBRC wrote...

isnudo wrote...

 Miranda's catsuit, not fit for every situation, but fine. 

<snip>

In the other cases it feels like characters who happen to be sexy, but EDI seems like she was designed around the concept of being overtly sexy, and it was kind of pointless. 

Wait...Miranda is fine, but EDI isn't? Despite being designed specifically (even with in- game lore) to be sexy? 

Well, look, I was happy to see Miranda finally get some proper armour with that appearance pack (though I never bought it because I don't think it's worth the money), and I always found the ass shots hilariously blatant. But I can put up with it. They at least made Miranda's appearance an issue to the character. I'm not saying it wasn't silly in ways, but it was at least worked into the lore and addressed.

With EDI it's not a sexualisation issue as such for me, more of a design issue. It feels like design came second to sex appeal. Making an infiltration unit sexy I guess I can understand, but the way they did it was silly. The hair, for instance. The robot having moldable hair-like substance was a poorly explained excuse to give EDI hair to make her more attractive.

And looking at it in-universe, surely Cerberus would want to use such a valuable tool as the infiltration unit again. So wouldn't having a featureless robot body that they could apply different features to make more sense? As it is, she has to look like a buxom woman with Eva Core's face. Kind of impractical.

[78stonewobble]

Indy_S wrote...
Considering only the people of the Normandy are capable of doing things in this setting, it seems to reinforce the idea that large breasts are the only way to be a woman. That's not said in the game, it's just a side-effect of having all of these stacked characters together. The rule is as follows: If you have small breasts, you might not be a woman, whereas if you have large breasts, you are certainly one. That's not the only way to interpret it, I understand, but what about this seems like a mature way of handling this? I can't see it.

Stop mocking my manboobs 

[Indy_S]

BleedingUranium wrote...

I'll spell it out for you: you say you like their previous verisons better, even though that's ME1's single body size for every human female and asari, and then complain about copy-pasting with a tiny detail.

I preferred the thinner-up-top versions of them, I can say that without hypocrisy. The fact that everyone had the same body-type didn't actually standout that much because they kept within reasonable boundaries. Now they bring in a few exceptions, all with large breasts and have them as the most prominent members of the female cast. They wanted to draw attention to them. They have.

That birthmark struck me as an odd detail given to the body. Copy-pasting it as they have, in scenes most visible with male-Shepard, it draws attention to it again.

[BleedingUranium]

Indy_S wrote...

Considering only the people of the Normandy are capable of doing things in this setting, it seems to reinforce the idea that large breasts are the only way to be a woman. That's not said in the game, it's just a side-effect of having all of these stacked characters together. The rule is as follows: If you have small breasts, you might not be a woman, whereas if you have large breasts, you are certainly one. That's not the only way to interpret it, I understand, but what about this seems like a mature way of handling this? I can't see it.

Well, if that's how you want to see things, I can't stop you.

But by trying to claim that characters having large breasts is bad, you're... well, you're saying that characters having large breasts is bad. If all characters had small(er) breasts, would you complain about that? If not, then you're just as bad as the the people who (you claim) think bigger breasts are better.

They're saying (according to you) "Large breasts are better". You're saying "small breasts are better". I don't see how you're more "correct".

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 février 2013 - 12:38 .

[Gfletch]

I really don't see why any of this is a big deal.

TIM is listed in the game as something of a voyeur. TIM created Eva (EDI).

Why would he *not* want her to look like this? If anything, if Eva looked rather plain and boring, it would be a bit odd... he had the chance to create the "perfect" synthetic woman - why not take it?

[Clayless]

Indy_S wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Why is it concerning? What's bad about them having big boobs?

Considering only the people of the Normandy are capable of doing things in this setting, it seems to reinforce the idea that large breasts are the only way to be a woman. That's not said in the game, it's just a side-effect of having all of these stacked characters together. The rule is as follows: If you have small breasts, you might not be a woman, whereas if you have large breasts, you are certainly one. That's not the only way to interpret it, I understand, but what about this seems like a mature way of handling this? I can't see it.

So Tali, Jack, Shepard or Traynor aren't women to you?

[BleedingUranium]

Robosexual wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Why is it concerning? What's bad about them having big boobs?

Considering only the people of the Normandy are capable of doing things in this setting, it seems to reinforce the idea that large breasts are the only way to be a woman. That's not said in the game, it's just a side-effect of having all of these stacked characters together. The rule is as follows: If you have small breasts, you might not be a woman, whereas if you have large breasts, you are certainly one. That's not the only way to interpret it, I understand, but what about this seems like a mature way of handling this? I can't see it.

So Tali, Jack, Shepard or Traynor aren't women to you?

Don't forget Kelly.

[JBPBRC]

isnudo wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

isnudo wrote...

 Miranda's catsuit, not fit for every situation, but fine. 

<snip>

In the other cases it feels like characters who happen to be sexy, but EDI seems like she was designed around the concept of being overtly sexy, and it was kind of pointless. 

Wait...Miranda is fine, but EDI isn't? Despite being designed specifically (even with in- game lore) to be sexy? 

Well, look, I was happy to see Miranda finally get some proper armour with that appearance pack (though I never bought it because I don't think it's worth the money), and I always found the ass shots hilariously blatant. But I can put up with it. They at least made Miranda's appearance an issue to the character. I'm not saying it wasn't silly in ways, but it was at least worked into the lore and addressed.

With EDI it's not a sexualisation issue as such for me, more of a design issue. It feels like design came second to sex appeal. Making an infiltration unit sexy I guess I can understand, but the way they did it was silly. The hair, for instance. The robot having moldable hair-like substance was a poorly explained excuse to give EDI hair to make her more attractive.

Ah. See, I view Miranda in much the same way you view EDI, obviously designed around sex appeal. Sure, they work it into Miranda's character more than they do with EDI, but it doesn't change the way I perceive them both.

And looking at it in-universe, surely Cerberus would want to use such a valuable tool as the infiltration unit again. So wouldn't having a featureless robot body that they could apply different features to make more sense? As it is, she has to look like a buxom woman with Eva Core's face. Kind of impractical.

As for this, well, Cerberus--it is, how do you say...very stupid. To use Miranda as an example again, she never bothers changing her look at all despite being on the run from them, yet clearly she succeeds in her evasion despite blatantly standing around on the Citadel waiting for Shepard to stop saving the galaxy so she can chat about her sister.

[Indy_S]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Considering only the people of the Normandy are capable of doing things in this setting, it seems to reinforce the idea that large breasts are the only way to be a woman. That's not said in the game, it's just a side-effect of having all of these stacked characters together. The rule is as follows: If you have small breasts, you might not be a woman, whereas if you have large breasts, you are certainly one. That's not the only way to interpret it, I understand, but what about this seems like a mature way of handling this? I can't see it.

Well, if that's how you want to see things, I can't stop you.

But by trying to claim that characters having large breasts is bad, you're... well, you're saying that characters having large breasts is bad. If all characters had small(er) breasts, would you complain about that? If not, then you're just as bad as the the people who (you claim) think bigger breasts are better.

They're saying (according to you) "Large breasts are better". You're saying "small breasts are better". I don't see how you're more "correct".

I don't think I'm trying to claim anything of the like. Having a reasonable balance is what I've been saying all along. And given that the only cup sizes this game has are A and D, I think a reasonable balance isn't that uncalled for.

[BleedingUranium]

Indy_S wrote...

I don't think I'm trying to claim anything of the like. Having a reasonable balance is what I've been saying all along. And given that the only cup sizes this game has are A and D, I think a reasonable balance isn't that uncalled for.

I think it's reasonably balanced and you don't.

[The Night Mammoth]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I don't think I'm trying to claim anything of the like. Having a reasonable balance is what I've been saying all along. And given that the only cup sizes this game has are A and D, I think a reasonable balance isn't that uncalled for.

I think it's reasonably balanced and you don't.

You're right, EDI is perfectly capable of walking without keeling over. 

[Indy_S]

Robosexual wrote...

So Tali, Jack, Shepard or Traynor aren't women to you?

You forgot Kasumi. And Kelly according to Uranium.

And that's not what I said. I included 'might' for a reason. There's doubt because of them but there's never a doubt that a busty woman is a heroine. Generic NPC's aren't heroes and they all have small boobs. The same is true of the muscle-men, don't worry. Enforcing this stereotype wasn't the designer's intentions but it's easy to see it at work.

[JBPBRC]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I don't think I'm trying to claim anything of the like. Having a reasonable balance is what I've been saying all along. And given that the only cup sizes this game has are A and D, I think a reasonable balance isn't that uncalled for.

I think it's reasonably balanced and you don't.

You're right, EDI is perfectly capable of walking without keeling over. 

True enough. But even Legion has doubts at first...

[78stonewobble]

Hmm to be honest... My attention to ingame cup sizes and other stuff pretty much amounts to a mental facepalm at the ridiculousness (some of them) when they and the characters are introduced. Other than that I don't notice it much. My attention goes to the voice acting and lines. -..-



But in principle I think video games should represent a wide variety of the general population. Though obviously eg. fat people don't belong in the military (or rather they would probably become thin rather quickly).

PS: Yes... I used to be thick (still think I am).

[Clayless]

Indy_S wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So Tali, Jack, Shepard or Traynor aren't women to you?

You forgot Kasumi. And Kelly according to Uranium.

And that's not what I said. I included 'might' for a reason. There's doubt because of them but there's never a doubt that a busty woman is a heroine. Generic NPC's aren't heroes and they all have small boobs. The same is true of the muscle-men, don't worry. Enforcing this stereotype wasn't the designer's intentions but it's easy to see it at work.

Not really. Shepard isn't a busty woman and she's the greatest heroine in the galaxy, arguably of all existence. Tali isn't and she saves the galaxy and the entirety of her civilisation. Kasumi and Jack aren't and they help save the galaxy and innocents. Traynor isn't and she (annoyingly) does tons.

I wouldn't say it's the designers intentions when there's so much to counter it.

[BleedingUranium]

Indy_S wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So Tali, Jack, Shepard or Traynor aren't women to you?

You forgot Kasumi. And Kelly according to Uranium.

And that's not what I said. I included 'might' for a reason. There's doubt because of them but there's never a doubt that a busty woman is a heroine. Generic NPC's aren't heroes and they all have small boobs. The same is true of the muscle-men, don't worry. Enforcing this stereotype wasn't the designer's intentions but it's easy to see it at work.

That's because there are only one or two models for NPCs. Or would you rather the majority of them have large breasts too?

[Display Name Owner]

JBPBRC wrote...

Ah. See, I view Miranda in much the same way you view EDI, obviously designed around sex appeal. Sure, they work it into Miranda's character more than they do with EDI, but it doesn't change the way I perceive them both.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from with Miranda. We can look at it and wonder why being sexy was written into her character to begin with? Was the genetic tampering an explanation for her appearance or an excuse for it? They at least tried to do something with it, so I guess I can be more accepting of it.

JBPBRC wrote...

And looking at it in-universe, surely Cerberus would want to use such a valuable tool as the infiltration unit again. So wouldn't having a featureless robot body that they could apply different features to make more sense? As it is, she has to look like a buxom woman with Eva Core's face. Kind of impractical.

As for this, well, Cerberus--it is, how do you say...very stupid. To use Miranda as an example again, she never bothers changing her look at all despite being on the run from them, yet clearly she succeeds in her evasion despite blatantly standing around on the Citadel waiting for Shepard to stop saving the galaxy so she can chat about her sister.

All true, and another reason EDI's look irks me. It doesn't make logical sense and the only way to explain it is Cerberus being ...very stupid.

Modifié par isnudo, 11 février 2013 - 12:58 .

[JBPBRC]

Robosexual wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So Tali, Jack, Shepard or Traynor aren't women to you?

You forgot Kasumi. And Kelly according to Uranium.

And that's not what I said. I included 'might' for a reason. There's doubt because of them but there's never a doubt that a busty woman is a heroine. Generic NPC's aren't heroes and they all have small boobs. The same is true of the muscle-men, don't worry. Enforcing this stereotype wasn't the designer's intentions but it's easy to see it at work.

Not really. Shepard isn't a busty woman and she's the greatest heroine in the galaxy, arguably of all existence. Tali isn't and she saves the galaxy and the entirety of her civilisation. Kasumi and Jack aren't and they help save the galaxy and innocents. Traynor isn't and she (annoyingly) does tons.

I wouldn't say it's the designers intentions when there's so much to counter it.

Shepard's a man. What bizarro logic am this?

/flameshield :innocent:

Modifié par JBPBRC, 11 février 2013 - 12:59 .

[Indy_S]

Robosexual wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

You forgot Kasumi. And Kelly according to Uranium.

And that's not what I said. I included 'might' for a reason. There's doubt because of them but there's never a doubt that a busty woman is a heroine. Generic NPC's aren't heroes and they all have small boobs. The same is true of the muscle-men, don't worry. Enforcing this stereotype wasn't the designer's intentions but it's easy to see it at work.

Not really. Shepard isn't a busty woman and she's the greatest heroine in the galaxy, arguably of all existence. Tali isn't and she saves the galaxy and the entirety of her civilisation. Kasumi and Jack aren't and they help save the galaxy and innocents. Traynor isn't and she (annoyingly) does tons.

I wouldn't say it's the designers intentions when there's so much to counter it.

Shepard's breasts have grown through the series, too. Tali, Kasumi, Jack and Traynor are exceptions, I'll concede that. And I said it wasn't the designer's intentions. But is it difficult to see why this can irk me? And I'm not the only one in this thread with complaints about this.

[BleedingUranium]

Indy_S wrote...

Shepard's breasts have grown through the series, too. Tali, Kasumi, Jack and Traynor are exceptions, I'll concede that. And I said it wasn't the designer's intentions. But is it difficult to see why this can irk me? And I'm not the only one in this thread with complaints about this.

For Shepard, ME1 models don't count, so you'd have to show they got bigger (and enough to notice the difference) between 2 and 3.

They're hardly exceptions when that's about the same number of characters you're complaining about.

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 février 2013 - 01:02 .

[Indy_S]

Why wouldn't ME1 models count, just curiously?

Miranda, EDI, Liara, Ashley, Shepard, Samara, Morinth. Huh, you're right. About the same number. Can you look at those characters and not see their exaggerated features? Given that four of them have previously had smaller/non-existent breasts, do you think their redesign is mature, at least in regards to said exaggerated features?

[LordBagardo]

A man being charismatic and handsome are both great strengths for him to have. The same goes for a woman.

EDI's body comes from Eva, a synthetic designed to blend into a group of organics and gain their trust. One of the easiest ways it could have done that is by demanding respect through sex appeal.

So no, I think it makes sense for her to be the way she is. And her appearance, from a design point of view, portrays her femininity very clearly. A LOKI mech would have made her seem like even more of a bodiless hunk of metal than she already was.

[BleedingUranium]

Indy_S wrote...

Why wouldn't ME1 models count, just curiously?

Miranda, EDI, Liara, Ashley, Shepard, Samara, Morinth. Huh, you're right. About the same number. Can you look at those characters and not see their exaggerated features? Given that four of them have previously had smaller/non-existent breasts, do you think their redesign is mature, at least in regards to said exaggerated features?

Because, due to limitations of the game, every single character had the exact same body.

I might agree with you if their breasts were unrealistically large, but they are not.

If you want an example of a character who's body doesn't match them, look at Chakwas. Not that I'm saying it's a big deal, but it is odd (and a limitation of the game engine).

Modifié par BleedingUranium, 11 février 2013 - 01:12 .