90 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

In the expansion one of your jobs is to rebuild the Wardens but shouldn't the other Wardens sort of be curious exactly how you, and maybe Allistair, killed the AD and are both somehow still alive assuming they all got briefed on how this Blight thing plays out.

Will, or maybe should, there be any hostility from the Warden's for your leap through the loophole Morrigan found for you?

[Keithhy]

Probably.

[robertthebard]

Well, if there is, they can bite me. All but one of my saves, however, this won't be an issue.

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Alistair brings that up in the coronation scene too. It will definitely be interesting to see if it comes up in Awakenings.

[ChaoticBroth]

It'll probably be discussed by the Wardens in the small timeframe between DA:O and Awakening. Even then, if someone brings it up, I'd just give them a witty reply.

[Yagamoth3433]

Blights occur only once every 400 years so technically they only have legends to go on. If questioned I can simply make up some story, after all they were not there and have no idea what really happened

[Yagamoth3433]

Blights occur only once every 400 years so technically they only have legends to go on. If questioned I can simply make up some story, after all they were not there and have no idea what really happened

[MorningBird]

Sidney wrote...

In the expansion one of your jobs is to rebuild the Wardens but shouldn't the other Wardens sort of be curious exactly how you, and maybe Allistair, killed the AD and are both somehow still alive assuming they all got briefed on how this Blight thing plays out.

Will, or maybe should, there be any hostility from the Warden's for your leap through the loophole Morrigan found for you?

Well...

1) If you didn't take the Dark Ritual, there's nothing to explain, is there?
2) if Alistair killed the Archdemon, there's also nothing to explain.
3) If Loghain killed the Archdemon, see above.
4) if you killed the Archdemon... you're dead, and play a different Grey Warden in the expansion (from what I've heard... could easily just be rumors).

So basically, you have nothing to explain away, and no reason to garner hostility from the other Grey Wardens, UNLESS you took the dark ritual which--believe it or not--not everyone did.  Plus, even if you did take the dark ritual, there are so many lies the PC could tell to shrug off the death of the Archdemon that I can't even see it being a feasable problem.

There are several instances in the game, for example, where you can back pedal yourself out of misfavor with your companions by lying to them with coersion and high-cunning.  The same can be done with NPCs.

You could tell them Riordan killed the Archdemon, for example.  He volunteered to do it, and there was so much fighting going on at the time, and he fell from such a height, that there were probably no soldiers who could 100% varify how he died... Unless you were a companion of the PC.

You could also tell them you made another Grey Warden before the fight, and they died slaying it (we know it was possible to perform another ritual since Loghain is a recruitable character).

Who is marketed by Ferelden as "the Hero who delt the final blow" isn't important to the Order.  If you let someone else kill the Archdemon and took all the glory for yourself they'll probably judge it as a deplorable action, but perhaps a necessary one since the best person to rebuild the order in Ferelden is a live hero (even if he's a fake one).

Grey Warden's believe in getting the job done at all costs.  Promoting a partial lie is not as important as slaying the Archdemon.  Therefore, saying that someone else was responsible for the Archdemon's death instead of admitting to Morrigan's ritual is a believable lie.

Modifié par MorningBird, 10 janvier 2010 - 06:09 .

[Keithhy]

@ChaoticBroth



Oh yes, something witty. Something along the lines of:



Senior Warden: "So, how come you're alive, eh? How come that Archdemon didn't finish either of you?"

PC: "I traded the soul and that of my child to a witch of questionable morals, who is now in possession of both my son and the soul of the Old God, thereby creating the potential for another Blight."

Senior Warden: "You what?!"

PC: "Just kidding, Duncan's beard saved us all."

Senior Warden: "Well that's a relief. You had me going there for a second. I mean, What sort of idiot would do something like that?"

Alistair: "That's the question, isn't it?"

[MorningBird]

Yagamoth3433 wrote...

Blights occur only once every 400 years so technically they only have legends to go on. If questioned I can simply make up some story, after all they were not there and have no idea what really happened

Actually, the first four Blights occured very close together, they weren't all 400 years apart.

It's for this reason that few people in Ferelden believe that the Fifth Blight was real.  After 400 years of relative peace from the Darkspawn, they thought that their troubles with the Archdemons was at long last over.  Only the Grey Wardens acknowledged the danger of the growing Darkspawn horde before it was too late, and that's because they could feel it through the taint and know exactly how many Archdemons total there are to slay.

Which is one of the depressing things about the Grey Wardens and their immense treasury of secrets.  If they'd made their knowledge on the Archdemons free to the people, perhaps they would have been taken more seriously when the horde gathered and there would be no reason for them to have to rebuild their Ferelden Order.

[errant_knight]

In a game without so many endings, I would absolutely expect that to cause trouble in the future. In this one, however, it remains to be seen if there will be a way to follow logical threads created by different endings. It would be a big challenge for the designers to include that in a way that would work with the other endings. I'd like to see it, but I don't know if it's feasible. One way to solve it would be to have DLC content that's ending specific, but that may not be financially viable given that not everyone will have an interest in playing every ending. I suppose it could be done in a smalle way as side quests in a larger expansion, say, a quest that unfolds differently depending on the ending you chose.

[ComTrav]

"Riordan totally did it. Poor guy."

[MorningBird]

ComTrav wrote...

"Riordan totally did it. Poor guy."

Exactly.

Riordan = scapegoat.

Modifié par MorningBird, 10 janvier 2010 - 06:12 .

[trh5001]

Isn't the wardens only responsibility ending the blight by any means necessary? Who cares how you did it the deal is done.  Worse comes to worse the maker did it.

Modifié par trh5001, 10 janvier 2010 - 06:18 .

[robertthebard]

trh5001 wrote...

Isn't the wardens only responsibility ending the blight by any means necessary? Who cares how you did it the deal is done.  Worse comes to worse the maker did it.

This.  I'm sure that an order that will recruit people from the executioner really don't give a rat's ass how they did it, just so long as it got done.  "Oh, but Morrigan's baby will create another Blight".  Maybe, or, it might become a way to prevent the darkspawn from finding the rest of the Old Gods, and prevent any future Blights.  You can tell me I'm wrong if you want to, but I have no more proof of my claim than anyone does of the darkspawn, that live in the Deep Roads, finding and tainting Morrigan's baby, if somebody did the ritual.  After all, the baby won't be cursed by the Maker into slumber to just get tainted.  If it's as powerful as everyone likes to assume, it's likely it can fight them off.

[TheMadCat]

Would be a interesting discussion and could go either way. Doing the ritual isn't necessary to end the Blight, only necessary to save a Warden's hide so the "Do whatever it takes" mindset doesn't really apply here, if anything you possibly added an unnecessary to the world through your selfish actions. I'd think the Warden's would actually frown upon that decision.

[robertthebard]

TheMadCat wrote...

Would be a interesting discussion and could go either way. Doing the ritual isn't necessary to end the Blight, only necessary to save a Warden's hide so the "Do whatever it takes" mindset doesn't really apply here, if anything you possibly added an unnecessary to the world through your selfish actions. I'd think the Warden's would actually frown upon that decision.

They can feel free to frown all they want.  I notice they weren't up on the roof of Fort Drakon with their senior status taking the killing blow.

[TheMadCat]

robertthebard wrote...


They can feel free to frown all they want.  I notice they weren't up on the roof of Fort Drakon with their senior status taking the killing blow.

Oh I agree, easy to judge from the sidelines. It would be interesting to see what some of the other Warden's would think though and what could possibly stem from it, most as I said would probably deride you and your actions.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 10 janvier 2010 - 07:52 .

[vickiediablos]

I think they're indeed curious about how the Wardens survived, as implied by one of the Alistair-called-to-Weisshaupt ending. Riordan as the scapegoat is an interesting idea, though.

[Cybercat999]

Like my PC said to Alistair at one point - "first smart comment and I feed them to the darkspawn".

[Majordribble]

Or the PC could claim they did make the killing blow and by some miracle of The Maker that they quite don't understand, they lived through it.

[Kalfear]

MorningBird wrote...


1) If you didn't take the Dark Ritual, there's nothing to explain, is there?
2) if Alistair killed the Archdemon, there's also nothing to explain.
3) If Loghain killed the Archdemon, see above.
4) if you killed the Archdemon... you're dead, and play a different Grey Warden in the expansion (from what I've heard... could easily just be rumors).

So Bioware themselves saying in press release you can use a saved character or roll a new Warden from neighboring Orlay is called a RUMOR now?

Wow, seems like if its not on Wiki you cant convince anyone of anything anymore! Kinda sad really!

As for topic, hopefully its a big deal in the story (about cheating death) and not just passed over. Such a huge decision should carry alot of weight with it.

Thats my hope anyways.

[MEUTRIERE]

I think I'll just take the, "What are you talking about? I /am/ dead." road.



Yeah, that'll mess with 'em.

[Yagamoth3433]

MorningBird wrote...

Actually, the first four Blights occured very close together, they weren't all 400 years apart.

It's for this reason that few people in Ferelden believe that the Fifth Blight was real.  After 400 years of relative peace from the Darkspawn, they thought that their troubles with the Archdemons was at long last over.  Only the Grey Wardens acknowledged the danger of the growing Darkspawn horde before it was too late, and that's because they could feel it through the taint and know exactly how many Archdemons total there are to slay.

Which is one of the depressing things about the Grey Wardens and their immense treasury of secrets.  If they'd made their knowledge on the Archdemons free to the people, perhaps they would have been taken more seriously when the horde gathered and there would be no reason for them to have to rebuild their Ferelden Order.

The reason they do not is because if they did then it would be revaled that grey wardens take upon the taint into themselves, people would not trust them, cause widescale riots against an imaginary threat thinking the grey wardens were no better than the darkspawn.  Some things must be kept a secret because people simply would not understand the necessity.

[SusanStoHelit]

In fact Alistair asked me at the epilogue how I survived, I just said "Morrigan saved me" - I didn't say how she did that.

Edit: This despite the fact, mind you, that at the Gate he mentions that Morrigan's ritual might not work. So he knew about the ritual and what happened then - but he didn't in the epilogue.

Modifié par SusanStoHelit, 10 janvier 2010 - 09:20 .