PainCakesx wrote...
In ME3, she just grated on me (constantly questioning me / distrusting me, overall annoying attitude etc.)
Modifié par spirosz, 12 février 2013 - 01:10 .
spirosz wrote...
PainCakesx wrote...
In ME3, she just grated on me (constantly questioning me / distrusting me, overall annoying attitude etc.)
With good reason too, just sayin'
There should still be more RP'ing choice and well, do Horizon all over again in ME2, dat writing sucks.
Paladin14 wrote...
1. Ashley is xenophobic. I think she's just cautious, I mean I would be around anyone new coming aboard, she wants them to earn her trust where she doesn't feel that way for humans.
Modifié par TheIdiocyWizard2.0, 12 février 2013 - 01:20 .
PainCakesx wrote...
spirosz wrote...
PainCakesx wrote...
In ME3, she just grated on me (constantly questioning me / distrusting me, overall annoying attitude etc.)
With good reason too, just sayin'
There should still be more RP'ing choice and well, do Horizon all over again in ME2, dat writing sucks.
After kicking Collector ass and telling the Illusive man to **** off, as well as killing hundreds of Cerberus troops in front of her, you'd think that'd be pretty damn convincing.
PainCakesx wrote...
After kicking Collector ass and telling the Illusive man to **** off, as well as killing hundreds of Cerberus troops in front of her, you'd think that'd be pretty damn convincing.
Modifié par Belisarius25, 12 février 2013 - 01:20 .
Modifié par Asch Lavigne, 12 février 2013 - 01:24 .
Tali in ME1 I'd agree without reservation, but Tali in ME2...DeinonSlayer wrote...
Totally agree, and that goes across the board. One of the things I really appreciate about Tali is that she wasn't oversexualized, and I felt that way about Ashley in ME1, too.
Paladin14 wrote...
I understand why people might get rubbed the wrong way but I have a few counterarguments to some of the Ash hate.
1. Ashley is xenophobic. I think she's just cautious, I mean I would be around anyone new coming aboard, she wants them to earn her trust where she doesn't feel that way for humans.
Paladin14 wrote...
2. Ashley is a God-freak. Ashley mentions God once in the game and its when you get to know the character and are asking her about herself. Not all soliders believe in God but people shouldn't be so harsh to call her a God freak because she believes in something. I think it adds to her character and makes her stronger.
Paladin14 wrote...
3. Ashley doesn't stop mistrusting you because of Cerberus. As a member of the military would you trust someone who fought alongside the enemy right away? You'd have to rebuild the trust back up.
TheIdiocyWizard2.0 wrote...
"I can't tell the aliens from the animals." She said this while we were on the Citadel.
And I talked to her on Horizon with Garrus standing right next to me. Sure, she acknowledges him, but it's more along the lines of, "So you're a human supremacists too, huh Garrus?" I can understand her reservations, but I'm standing here with two aliens right next to me. [i]Obviously I'm not fitting in with the Cerberus ideal.
Modifié par Belisarius25, 12 février 2013 - 01:24 .
OK, that may apply to some degree (moreso than ME1), but compared to Miranda or Jack...Dean_the_Young wrote...
Tali in ME1 I'd agree without reservation, but Tali in ME2...DeinonSlayer wrote...
Totally agree, and that goes across the board. One of the things I really appreciate about Tali is that she wasn't oversexualized, and I felt that way about Ashley in ME1, too.
It's not the worst, and in most games it wouldn't even raise an eyebrow, but given the companions and general setting I can't ignore how much of the aesthetic is done to emphasize her bust, lower front, and otherwise go 'I'm supposed to be sexy while technically fully dressed.' Even the color palat and curves of the layers are pretty blatant imagery of a bustline, and the number of needless hoops and loops does more to suggest bondage than utility.
Again, not the worse, but it stands out more due to the company she keeps. The design of Tali of ME1 was simply 'female', but Tali of ME2 was definitely 'love interest.'
Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 12 février 2013 - 01:42 .
Degs29 wrote...
So, what you're saying is...she's xenophobic lol.
So thinking it adds to her character and makes her stronger is okay, but thinking it detracts from her character isn't fair?
Personally I don't really care all that much about this, although she harps on about it for an overly long amount of time. Aside from this, she seems to disregard everything she knows about you in preference of the generic label of Cerberus.
Modifié par Belisarius25, 12 février 2013 - 01:31 .
Han Shot First wrote...
Ashley gets a lot of hate because she's human, and from many peoples point of view automatically starts off less interesting than the alien characters. Because of this people are less willing to overlook things that they percieve as being character flaws.
Unlike Tali, Garrus, and Liara she also doesn't worship at the altar of Shepard quite as often, and questions Shepard's judgement in both Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. This is an unforgiveable sin in many players eyes, who prefer their squadmates to idolize Shepard. It is no small coincidence that Team Dextro and Liara are far and away the most popular squadmates while Ashley tends to be very polarizing.
Now to be fair Liara is very polarizing as well and has a very vocal hate club, but thats motivated more by perceived writer's favoritism than Liara's actions or dialogue in the series. And unlike with Ashley it doesn't prevent her from finishing at or near the top of every favorite character poll with a decent sample size. I think the key difference is that Liara doesn't really question Shepard, while Ashley does.
Ashley also tends to be a misunderstood character. Some people came away with the mistaken impression in Mass Effect 1 that she was a racist bible-thumper, but that isn't the direction her writer(s) were going with her at all. She obviously believes in some form of a higher power or afterlife, but is never preachy about it. And while Ashley is somewhat distrustful of aliens, she's also hostile towards the Terra Firma party and will tell Tali that she hopes her contributions will help end discrimination against Quarians. She's neither a racist or a religious fundamentalist, but some players are very black and white in how they view things. To these players there isn't much room for a middle ground between atheism and religious extremism or racism and tolerance.
Belisarius25 wrote...
PainCakesx wrote...
After kicking Collector ass and telling the Illusive man to **** off, as well as killing hundreds of Cerberus troops in front of her, you'd think that'd be pretty damn convincing.
That's not Ashley-specific though, both VS characters have basically the exact same dialogue on Mars (it's almost word for word) and have the same reactions to your responses. That, and while they do question whether you really cut ties (and if you paragon it, they accept that), their second conversation is entirely about being concerned that Cerberus did something to Shepard without him/her knowing it (which basically fits with the fact that Shepard's explanation on Horizon is basically "I was in a coma and Cerberus did stuff to me"). It's not so much an accusation against Shepard as it is one against Cerberus.
Once you're past Mars, the only "trust" issue remaining is the coup, which is pretty reasonable since A/K are protecting the Council and really shouldn't just step aside because Shepard tells them to (although, since Bioware won't allow us to do things like present any evidence or show the Salarian Councilor alive, etc. they end up more or less doing so).
In the end, though, the real problem is that it's a ME2 plot dragged out into ME3 by Bioware wanting "drama", the conversations that happen on Mars would make perfect sense...in the previous game. I don't see the point in being annoyed much at characters when the fault lies with the writers. The VS characters are railroaded through the plot for long stretches of the series, after all.
Guest_Lathrim_*
Belisarius25 wrote...
PainCakesx wrote...
After kicking Collector ass and telling the Illusive man to **** off, as well as killing hundreds of Cerberus troops in front of her, you'd think that'd be pretty damn convincing.
That's not Ashley-specific though, both VS characters have basically the exact same dialogue on Mars (it's almost word for word) and have the same reactions to your responses. That, and while they do question whether you really cut ties (and if you paragon it, they accept that), their second conversation is entirely about being concerned that Cerberus did something to Shepard without him/her knowing it (which basically fits with the fact that Shepard's explanation on Horizon is basically "I was in a coma and Cerberus did stuff to me"). It's not so much an accusation against Shepard as it is one against Cerberus.
Once you're past Mars, the only "trust" issue remaining is the coup, which is pretty reasonable since A/K are protecting the Council and really shouldn't just step aside because Shepard tells them to (although, since Bioware won't allow us to do things like present any evidence or show the Salarian Councilor alive, etc. they end up more or less doing so).
In the end, though, the real problem is that it's a ME2 plot dragged out into ME3 by Bioware wanting "drama", the conversations that happen on Mars would make perfect sense...in the previous game. I don't see the point in being annoyed much at characters when the fault lies with the writers. The VS characters are railroaded through the plot for long stretches of the series, after all.
Han Shot First wrote...
Ashley gets a lot of hate because she's human, and from many peoples point of view automatically starts off less interesting than the alien characters. Because of this people are less willing to overlook things that they percieve as being character flaws.
Unlike Tali, Garrus, and Liara she also doesn't worship at the altar of Shepard quite as often, and questions Shepard's judgement in both Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. This is an unforgiveable sin in many players eyes, who prefer their squadmates to idolize Shepard. It is no small coincidence that Team Dextro and Liara are far and away the most popular squadmates while Ashley tends to be very polarizing.
Now to be fair Liara is very polarizing as well and has a very vocal hate club, but thats motivated more by perceived writer's favoritism than Liara's actions or dialogue in the series. And unlike with Ashley it doesn't prevent her from finishing at or near the top of every favorite character poll with a decent sample size. I think the key difference is that Liara doesn't really question Shepard, while Ashley does.
Ashley also tends to be a misunderstood character. Some people came away with the mistaken impression in Mass Effect 1 that she was a racist bible-thumper, but that isn't the direction her writer(s) were going with her at all. She obviously believes in some form of a higher power or afterlife, but is never preachy about it. And while Ashley is somewhat distrustful of aliens, she's also hostile towards the Terra Firma party and will tell Tali that she hopes her contributions will help end discrimination against Quarians. She's neither a racist or a religious fundamentalist, but some players are very black and white in how they view things. To these players there isn't much room for a middle ground between atheism and religious extremism or racism and tolerance.
TheBlackBaron wrote...
Han Shot First wrote...
Ashley gets a lot of hate because she's human, and from many peoples point of view automatically starts off less interesting than the alien characters. Because of this people are less willing to overlook things that they percieve as being character flaws.
Unlike Tali, Garrus, and Liara she also doesn't worship at the altar of Shepard quite as often, and questions Shepard's judgement in both Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3. This is an unforgiveable sin in many players eyes, who prefer their squadmates to idolize Shepard. It is no small coincidence that Team Dextro and Liara are far and away the most popular squadmates while Ashley tends to be very polarizing.
Now to be fair Liara is very polarizing as well and has a very vocal hate club, but thats motivated more by perceived writer's favoritism than Liara's actions or dialogue in the series. And unlike with Ashley it doesn't prevent her from finishing at or near the top of every favorite character poll with a decent sample size. I think the key difference is that Liara doesn't really question Shepard, while Ashley does.
Ashley also tends to be a misunderstood character. Some people came away with the mistaken impression in Mass Effect 1 that she was a racist bible-thumper, but that isn't the direction her writer(s) were going with her at all. She obviously believes in some form of a higher power or afterlife, but is never preachy about it. And while Ashley is somewhat distrustful of aliens, she's also hostile towards the Terra Firma party and will tell Tali that she hopes her contributions will help end discrimination against Quarians. She's neither a racist or a religious fundamentalist, but some players are very black and white in how they view things. To these players there isn't much room for a middle ground between atheism and religious extremism or racism and tolerance.
Somebody buy this man a drink.
DinoSteve wrote...
Am I the only one thats freaked out by old Ashley's big neck.
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