394 réponses à ce sujet

[Benchpress610]

AlanC9 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
1-     English is not my native language either, so before I post I make sure my spelling and grammar are correct, so I can be understood. You can’t even being to guess my culture and where I come from.
 
2-     There are BW forums in other languages. English is not the only one.
 
3-     Last but not least, and most important: if he/she is going to post here being condescending, insulting, and by default asserting that people with an opposite view are stupid and “culturally stunted”, he/she’d better show his/her high intellect by expressing him/herself in a proper intelligibly way. As they say: “If you can’t walk the walk, don’t do the talk”

But are the objections you raise actually effective? From where I sit they just make you look petty.

These are not objections; they are a response to the previous poster. I see you conveniently left it out and quoted my post out of context. As for effectiveness, I think it was effective as a retort to the previous poster's argument, but is all in the eye of the beholder.  And please elaborate on how does that makes me look petty?

Edited for clarity
 

Modifié par Benchpress610, 12 février 2013 - 11:43 .

[CronoDragoon]

AlanC9 wrote...
I concur --- but for me this is a problem with ME2 rather than ME3. Getting through the SM with no casualties struck me as a regrettable (but minor) failing, not an example of sound RPG design principles.

I don't have a universal preference except that I like to know what type of story I'm playing from the get-go. In that sense I think ME3 should have stayed true to what I saw to be the story-telling paradigm of both ME1 and ME2: no matter what you choose you are amply rewarded for your choice with little consequence.

It's why I was a little disappointed with ME1 to be honest, since it was advertised as a game with tough decisions, and they all seemed sort of easy to me.

[Almostfaceman]

JMJ_91 wrote...

Hey,

I've just gotten around to play ME 3 through for a second time, because I wanted to see the Omega/Leviathan DLC (both very good) and the Extended Cut for myself.

I, as many of you, was pretty pissed about the original endings, I don't want to go into too much detail, as basically everything has been said, but when after putting at least 100-150. into a franchise it leaves you unsatisfied in the end, something is wrong.

That being said, I really appreciate, the Extended Cut, it really shows, that Bioware cares (they can't be happy about the backlash themselves) and it manages to salvage some stuff at least, but still none of the 4 options give me feeling of "Mission Accomplished" I had after defeating Saren or managing to pull my whole squad alive out of the Collector Base. I get that it is difficult to say "Oh look, a happy ending! Ponies and rainbows for everyone!" after a war that has destroyed a s'''t-ton of galactic civilization, but still.

In the end I'll always pick destroy, even if it means synthetic suicide (RIGHT AFTER PROVING THE BRAT WRONG, BY REUNITING GETH AND QUARIANS, goddamnit!), because even though Snythesis is kinda the "best" ending (everyone's alive, and equal, no mass murder etc.) it just is one too much.
I'm aware that we're talking about a sci-fi game, but what I really like about ME is that everything is explained, like, sure we have FTL and it works like this and that, or sure, our guns never run out of ammo, because of this and that.
But a magic beam, rewriting everyones DNA? What? I can buy the destroy option and its EMP-like shockwave at least. Also wasn't strength through equality always kinda of dominant theme throughout the series? For your squad and in the end for brining together the whole galactic community? Why lose that?

In any case, this is just some stuff that went through my head, after replaying ME3.
How do you feel about it, still as upset about it?

Upset? No.
Disappointed? Yes.
Want to replay the series? No.
Want to buy more dlc or other Bioware products? No.
Still hope to change their minds? Yes.
Think I (or anyone else) will change their minds? No. 

[Maniccc]

The ending never upset me, it depressed me.  It was just...awful on so many levels.  But it was in some ways the culmination of bad writing starting back in ME2.

How do I feel now?  I don't care.  I am mildly curious about the next DLC.  If it doesn't interest me, I'll uninstall ME3.  The only reason I haven't done that yet is because I'm waiting to see what this DLC offers.

ME as a whole is something I barely remember anymore.  And if the next DLC is not something amazing, then I'll uninstall the game from my mind along with all the other games I can't remember playing.

[sharkboy421]

After the vanilla endings I was confused as all hell.  The only feeling I could really get a hold of was that whatever I had just played did not feel like Mass Effect. The EC only confirmed my suspicion that the endings were not appropriate for ME3.

The EC is really, really good work and makes for some really cool sci-fi.  I have no problem with the ideas and questions it presents.  My issue with the ending is that it feels very inappropriate for Mass Effect.  And while I have gotten over my initial shock and anger, my disappointment and confusion has not abated at all. 

I think what I'd like most (barring the wishful thinking of a completely re-done ending), is for an open and honest discussion with the writers and/or anyone who was part of the development of the ending.  I want to try to understand why they felt this was the best way to end Mass Effect and hear the reasons in their own words.  I have tried for a year now to see what they saw when this ending was creating but I just can't make the connection. 

[Sharn01]

I have written off Mass Effect, I haven't bought any DLC, nor do I have any plans to buy the next game. I check in on the forums from time to time hoping for some good news that will make me think DA3 has a chance at being good, and I will rarely pop over to the ME forums at the miniscule chance they will come to their senses and fix ME3.

[Kenza]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Kenza wrote...
Nope, still disappointed with the lack of "I WON, THIS IS EPIC" feeling at the end.

This is a fine example of the limited cultural exposure many gamers seem to come with as a standard. The obvious question is: Why would it need that? Am I the only one here even remotely old enough to have seen Blade Runner or something?

See, the original version of that film has exactly what you'd want. Did it make for a better film? No, no it did not. It was awful. It was only after the Director's Cut removed the 'epic, happy ending' did that film reach it's potential.

Nope, sorry, haven't seen it; no comment there. But I think there's a big difference between movies and games. Movies arn't "your" stories, they're someone else's. For that matter there's quite a difference between Bioware games and most other games, imo. Bioware goes waay out of their way to make their games feel like your story and your character, making choices you choose to make, as opposed to, for example, a Final Fantasy game. In FF, youre playing a story, but it's not your story and you have very little say on what actually happens in the story. (Sidenote: I love FFs, don't anyone think I'm bashing them or anything, just pointing out a difference to make my point!)

Auld Wulf wrote...
 I'm sorry, but what you want would have ruined Mass Effect for those of us who realise that.

And I don't think it should be limited to either "What I want" or "What you want." What I want may ruin it for people like you, but just as much as what you want may ruin it for people like me. Idealy I was expecting that it would have been optional like the rest of the game/series, it's what I've come to expect from a Bioware game. It's your story, you do what you want. DA:O/ME2 did excellent jobs demonstrating that in their endings, you could have as happy/sad/epic/tragic an ending as you want based on your decisions in the games.

But hey, that's just my opinion, and in the end it's not really my story, it's Bioware's and they'll do what they want. :/

[element eater]

it doesnt ****** me off any more

but my opinion of it hasnt improved even slightly still the most dissapointing bit of fiction i ever encountered

[Deadpool9]

Auld Wulf wrote...
Am I the only one here even remotely old enough to have seen Blade Runner or something?

What I love is that five posts above yours, on page 10, I directly quoted from that film in my final line. Hilarious that you wrote that.

[Renmiri1]

Benchpress610 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Benchpress610 wrote...
1-     English is not my native language either, so before I post I make sure my spelling and grammar are correct, so I can be understood. You can’t even being to guess my culture and where I come from.
 
2-     There are BW forums in other languages. English is not the only one.
 
3-     Last but not least, and most important: if he/she is going to post here being condescending, insulting, and by default asserting that people with an opposite view are stupid and “culturally stunted”, he/she’d better show his/her high intellect by expressing him/herself in a proper intelligibly way. As they say: “If you can’t walk the walk, don’t do the talk”

But are the objections you raise actually effective? From where I sit they just make you look petty.

These are not objections; they are a response to the previous poster. I see you conveniently left it out and quoted my post out of context. As for effectiveness, I think it was effective as a retort to the previous poster's argument, but is all in the eye of the beholder.  And please elaborate on how does that makes me look petty?

Edited for clarity
 

I wouldn't worry about pettiness when responding to someone who called me "so lazy it is disgusting" , "culturally stunted" and went all high and mighty in his high horse to make himself the connoisseur of modern art dispensing wisdom us rubes.

He fell flat on his face, guess what, if you offend my cultural background you better have a better one. Picking words at random from the dictionary doesn't make one an expert. If he really understood and knew the meaning of what he was talking about, he would know how to write them in english. And not in a condescending "I'm the best you guys are lazy" conforntational way.

He wanted to cause polemic and he did, I don't feel sorry for him  

Modifié par Renmiri1, 13 février 2013 - 01:02 .

[iorveth1271]

I personally have come to terms with the ending. Not with the original, but with the EC one at least. Sure, there are things I'd love to see improved, like War Assets showing or Harbinger dialogue or a longer Earth mission in general (as it just felt rushed overall), but with the EC, I've at least managed to find a bit of accomplishment and hope in the endings, which was my main problem.

I personally always choose the new Refusal ending, as I personally feel that the Catalysts logic still is fundamentally flawed and because of that, I'd likely never choose one of the options it "offers" me - that's not victory, that's an illusion. In Refusal (through dialogue), Shep said pretty much exactly what I wanted to say and the epilogue at least gave me the feeling that the next cycle found the info about the Reapers in time to prevent their invasion and wipe them out conventionally before it was too late, giving the sacrifice of our cycle a meaning and turning our annihilation into a victory.

I personally was never looking for a perfect ending. I'd have loved little blue babies with Liara, but IMO everyone who, after everything that happened in ME, expected a butterfly ending, was just fooling themselves. It's not perfect, but it's what we got now and Bioware affirmed they won't change/modify the endings any further, so why keep bothering. I like the EC endings, all of them. There are flaws. But overall, ME3 as a whole was still a flawed, but great game and no other Mass Effect game made me laugh or tear up as often as Mass Effect 3 did and I don't tear up often.

Bad ending or no - still a great game.

[AlanC9]

Benchpress610 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote.
But are the objections you raise actually effective? From where I sit they just make you look petty

These are not objections; they are a response to the previous poster. I see you conveniently left it out and quoted my post out of context. As for effectiveness, I think it was effective as a retort to the previous poster's argument, but is all in the eye of the beholder.  And please elaborate on how does that makes me look petty

I cut stuff out because the last thing the thread needs is gigantic quote pyramids about a side issue. This is an ending thread, not a grammar or argument style thread. Anyone who gives a damn about what we're talking about has already seen the posts in question. 

And it wasn't an effective retort to the argument because the grammar isn't the argument. It might be a good way to make Auld Wulf look bad, but he doesn't really need your help for that.

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I concur --- but for me this is a problem with ME2 rather than ME3. Getting through the SM with no casualties struck me as a regrettable (but minor) failing, not an example of sound RPG design principles.

I don't have a universal preference except that I like to know what type of story I'm playing from the get-go. In that sense I think ME3 should have stayed true to what I saw to be the story-telling paradigm of both ME1 and ME2: no matter what you choose you are amply rewarded for your choice with little consequence.

It's why I was a little disappointed with ME1 to be honest, since it was advertised as a game with tough decisions, and they all seemed sort of easy to me.

So ME3 goes towards what ME1 should have been, but it shouldn't have? Ironic, but I see the point.

I'm probably not sensitive to the consistency issue because I do have a preference. Obviously not a big issue for me, or I wouldn't like Bio games in the first place.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 février 2013 - 03:29 .

[Drogonion]

 The endings are completely terrible from a narrative point of view.  Clariying that terrible narrative - which is all the enhanced ending achieves - does nothing except to enhance the already terrible endings.  

I'm sorry.  I'm still waiting for a reason to replay the game - any of the games in the trilogy - again.  And no, I haven't felt the slightest urge to spend money on any DLCs.  I'm surprised that there is any playerbase left to support making them.  

Been gaming for over decade, and never experienced the debacle that was the ME3 finale.  Still so sad.

Sad that the multiplayer was the only thing to have lasting value from that potentially epic yarn.  

[l7986]

Disappointed mainly. With how the game played out, I was really expecting a Suicide mission/Tuchanka/Rannoch/Thessia mission all wrapped into one, with a healthy dose of relaying nuking tossed on top. But then again I'm happy with the endings, because if I hadn't been so disappointed, I wouldn't have known about fanfiction.

[ScriptBabe]

God help me, but the ending annoyed me so much that I wrote my own ending, and a story of survivor's guilt, PTSD and finding peace. Since I make my living as a writer that was a financially silly thing to do, but I had invested so deeply in this franchise, but I had to have an ending I could tolerate.

[Benchpress610]

AlanC9 wrote...
I cut stuff out because the last thing the thread needs is gigantic quote pyramids about a side issue. This is an ending thread, not a grammar or argument style thread. Anyone who gives a damn about what we're talking about has already seen the posts in question. 

And it wasn't an effective retort to the argument because the grammar isn't the argument. It might be a good way to make Auld Wulf look bad, but he doesn't really need your help for that.

You only quoted my response to GimmeDaGun. Therefore I inferred your “objection” remark was referring to that post, not to the previous “grammar” post. Again, I consider my remarks an adequate and effective response to his/her specific post.
 
About the first post; you’re right, grammar is not the argument. It was a vehicle I used to illustrate a point. No person has the moral ground under any circumstances to insult and call people names over a disagreement about a silly video game, but it’s more egregious if this person exhibits the same traits he/she is attaching to the objects of his/her diatribe.
 
As Renmiri1 said, he wanted to cause polemic and he did. But, as you said, this is an ending related thread and there is no use delving further into this issue.

[Auld Wulf]

AlanC9 wrote...

It might be a good way to make Auld Wulf look bad, but he doesn't really need your help for that.

Except it doesn't, nothing does. The whole time I've been speaking out in favour of progression, and against things like genocide, ludditism, binary thinking, fascism, and xenophobia. I've stood by my high ideals. There's literally nothing that can make me 'look bad.' I'm sure some people might have wet dreams about it, but the fact of the matter is is that I have steadfastly and passionately stood by my sense of ethics and perspectives. How many others can say the same?

I'm not sure you or many others understand the importance of integrity. Considering how many have made fun of BioWare for trying to uphold theirs, I'm pretty sure of that. Integrity is something to value.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 13 février 2013 - 05:57 .

[FlamingBoy]

I had to come to terms with being a sucker for biowares bull.

Thats not an easy thing to do because no one likes to think they were ripped off (which can lead to 2 solutions, you either feel like you ripped off, or you convince yourself the game is great). The ending was rough (and among the worst things I have seen in fiction) but it was the revelations that came after that, that was the real kicker

[CynicalShep]

Auld Wulf wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It might be a good way to make Auld Wulf look bad, but he doesn't really need your help for that.

Except it doesn't, nothing does. The whole time I've been speaking out in favour of progression, and against things like genocide, ludditism, binary thinking, fascism, and xenophobia. I've stood by my high ideals. There's literally nothing that can make me 'look bad.' I'm sure some people might have wet dreams about it, but the fact of the matter is is that I have steadfastly and passionately stood by my sense of ethics and perspectives. How many others can say the same?

I'm not sure you or many others understand the importance of integrity. Considering how many have made fun of BioWare for trying to uphold theirs, I'm pretty sure of that. Integrity is something to value.

A little counter-productive?
It just did. You just did.

[Indy_S]

Auld Wulf wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

It might be a good way to make Auld Wulf look bad, but he doesn't really need your help for that.

Except it doesn't, nothing does. The whole time I've been speaking out in favour of progression, and against things like genocide, ludditism, binary thinking, fascism, and xenophobia. I've stood by my high ideals. There's literally nothing that can make me 'look bad.' I'm sure some people might have wet dreams about it, but the fact of the matter is is that I have steadfastly and passionately stood by my sense of ethics and perspectives. How many others can say the same?

I'm not sure you or many others understand the importance of integrity. Considering how many have made fun of BioWare for trying to uphold theirs, I'm pretty sure of that. Integrity is something to value.

I think I'll take this moment to take a stand against arrogance, pride, close-mindedness and superiority. You know what? I think this makes Auld Wulf look bad.

[TODD9999]

I'm less emotional about the endings, but more set in my response. I'm very disappointed, and have no intention of giving BioWare special consideration in the future (no more "Oh, it's BioWare, it's going to be great!") nor do I currently plan on buying any future BioWare products. I'm no fanatic; if I hear and see some good reviews, I'm certainly open to being won back. But they're going to have to be some very good reviews, after the game has been out for long enough for every aspect of the game to have been explored. ME3 converted me from a BioWare fanboy to a BioWare hard skeptic.

[HellbirdIV]

No, the ending (and there is still only one, despite palette swaps and voice overs) is still very, very, very, very, very dumb.

[fleebag7]

The only reason I am still angry about the ending, is because they dropped the one they had been building for the ENTIRE franchise because it leaked, and had to quickly make a new one. The fact that someone may see your work of art before you want them to is no reason to scrap it. If there was another reason behind it, please tell me, but if not, I still can't wrap my head around that logic.

[FlamingBoy]

fleebag7 wrote...

The only reason I am still angry about the ending, is because they dropped the one they had been building for the ENTIRE franchise because it leaked, and had to quickly make a new one. The fact that someone may see your work of art before you want them to is no reason to scrap it. If there was another reason behind it, please tell me, but if not, I still can't wrap my head around that logic.

The ending is the same despite the leak (with some minor differences), Bioware did release a press statement that they were taking feedback into account that would affect the ending, but this never actually happened.

It was more to deal with the backlash from the smart people (with hindsight) who read the ending and thought it was awful