394 réponses à ce sujet

[k.lalh]

I'm okay with them. Are there things that I would like to see expanded, and questions that I'd like answered? Sure. Will I live if I don't get that? Yep. Just means I'll have an excuse to hang out here a bit more.

[NatP]

I love Mass Effect 3. I hate the endings and I always will.

[FOX216BC]

modding the future of gaming.
Seriously look at these guys


They actually encourage modding.
If ME (pc version) was easier to mod there would have been better endings even better then the MEHEM mod we have right now.

Modifié par FOX216BC, 11 février 2013 - 02:23 .

[TheIdiocyWizard2.0]

I secretly hope that BioWare will redo the entire Priority: Earth mission for the better, but until then I've kind of come to terms with it. Destroy EC is the best ending, in my opinion, but it's still bad writing all around.

Modifié par TheIdiocyWizard2.0, 11 février 2013 - 02:24 .

[EnvyTB075]

FOX216BC wrote...

modding the future of gaming.
Seriously look at these guys


They actually encourage modding.
If ME (pc version) was easier to mod there would have been better endings even better then the MEHEM mod we have right now.

And i can name Bohemia Interactive Studios, Bethesda, Valve, Simbin and Crytek as others who have been doing the modding thing forever, who also actively encourage it.

Its not new, though it is nice to see someone else join in "officially". I liked the part where DICE (EA *winkwinknudge*) essentially claimed that gamers were too stupid to understand their overrated heap of **** of an engine called Frostbite 2 so they weren't going to allow modding in BF3. I don't think anyone was fooled that they only did that to sell more DLC, and to ensure gamers don't play it after its scheduled lifetime. They want people to buy BF4 and everything for it in the coming year or so.

[Ieldra]

JMJ_91 wrote...
Still I gotta hand it to Bioware, they've managed to create a franchise where the players feel a deep connection between them and their characters. I have never experienced something even close to it in any game/movie or anything

They did that. But I think they didn't realize that this also comes with a responsibility. When I watched the original endings first, I thought: "Bioware, you don't play with your core audience's emotions like this. You just don't!"

I can still not thank them enough for the EC. That saved the trilogy for me and catapulted the ending from being totally horrible and depressing to "extremely interesting in concept, very satisfying in outcome, but with with heavy flaws in the execution". Not perfect but enough for me to work with it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 février 2013 - 02:54 .

[D1ck1e]

I've comed to terms with the fact that Bioware is hiring artists instead of gamers and programmers now.

Modifié par D1ck1e, 11 février 2013 - 02:57 .

[Stalker]

I kinda dislike the whole game and came to terms with it.
I see where ME is heading now and it's pretty much finished for me.

[Flamewielder]

It took me a long while to come to terms with the endings, all three of them...

None of them made me happy, as I was hoping we'd write the end story ourselves just as we wrote the preceeding three games.

BUT, I did "get it" in the end. Or rather, I get what the writers INTENDED. And their intent wasn't bad.

The whole notion of synthetics rebelling against their organic (or even synthetic behavior) was put forward from Day One. The "birth" of EDI on Luna, the AI side mission on the Citadel and the whole notion of an AI "taboo"... It's all about children struggling to define themselves as individuals separate from their parents.

The struggle between synthetics and organics is not "Us against Them". Sometimes, it's "Them against Us". In the case of the Quarians and the Geths, the conflict was started by the Quarians, who disagreed amongst themselves wether or not machine intelligence and self-awareness was enough for it to be considered sentient.

When you read through the games and remember that all characters are "unreliable narrators", SOME level of conflict between synthetics and organics is bound to occur. That's not to say ALL synthetics (or organics) will display agression towards one another. Some will even achieve mutually beneficial symbiosis and evolve in parallel. The Leviathans came to the conclusion that conflic and chaos was "inevitable"; but that doesn't make it true in ALL instances. The Catalyst was created by the Leviathans to eliminate what THEY perceived as chaos; it took the ball and ran with it.

It was a great concept for a sci-fi story, but the writers lost track of what made ME unique: YOU were writing your OWN Shepard's story. Players would have been happier with 3 generic endings (one bad, one good/happy and a bittersweet one. Of course they would likely not have been Hugo Award-winning material; but they would have succesfully concluded an otherwise remarquable series of games.

I am looking forward to ME4, hoping it will be a sequel in the far-future:

The Reapers were destroyed or eventually left to explore other galaxies (fate unknown)

The Krogan survived against all odds (ether the genophage wasn't cured or the cure curbed their populatioin growth by reducing the effectiveness of their unnaturally strong immune system (i.e. reduced life-expectancy)

Synthetics are back or never left

Shepard is long-forgotten and no more than some obscure Promethean myth

[xIREDEEMEDIx]

I completed my insanity run through this last weekend with the intent of actually sitting and paying attention to the ending with all of the conversations at the end. I have to say that this time, I didn't see any evidence of IT, nor anything else other than the ending should be taken at face value. So long story short....yes, I have to come to grips with the ending.

[Auld Wulf]

@OP

I think the point of Synthesis was to present us with the technological Singularity, if you're familiar with that term. It's not about understanding everything, as we don't right now, it's about the rationale that if we continue evolving technology and the sciences, eventually we'll be able to leave nature and mortality behind. Nature and mortality tend to result in a lot of suffering, a lot of death, and some people embrace that death as they're unable to think outside of their small world perceptions, they're stuck in a very small box. Synthesis is for those that want to dream bigger.

For those, like myself, it's a conclusion wchich fits our ideals. It presents a future mostly sans suffering, it changes the human condition. We no longer have to be beasts reliant on instinct. Similar to the reapers, we will no longer be slaves to our own biologically programming. If you've been following scientific research at all, a lot of it is pretty much to overturn nature's own code. Curing diabetes recently had an interesting milestone, as did a potential future cure for cognitive decline (the lack of new neurons being created in old age).

Much of what we do is meant to augment our natural selves, to go past our own shortcomings. That shiny iPhone or Android phone you might have is a side-effect of that desire. A hundred years ago, you wouldn't be able to immediately and directly call a hospital or the police out on the street like you can now. This is all augmentation of the human condition, it's about overcoming our shortcomings and rebuilding ourselves into better creatures. Bionic eyes recently went on sale as a product to cure blindness (no, really). Every day we take another step towards the Singularity.

The Singularity is the event where we pretty much step aside from nature, because we have no more use for it, and we've taken evolution into our own hands. Essentially, we're free of nature's biological coding. And if you think about it, that's much of what Mass Effect 3 represents - everyone is a slave to their code. The synthetics are, the organics are, the reapers are. And yet we all want something better, and we strive for better things. Legion striving to provide code to allow his people to become truly sapient is reminiscent of our own struggle.

So, for a mind like mine, Synthesis isn't at all difficult to accept. It's the natural culmination of everything. It's what we're all heading towards, anyway. Every intelligent mind strives to escape the boundaries of nature. Every intelligent mind wants to undo damages brought about by us being natural creatures. If it wasn't for that drive, we wouldn't have people working on cures for the big bads, like cancer and STDs. The point of the Singularity is that at that point, those concerns stop being concerns, we're no longer slaves to the fear of them.

Synthesis represents that turning point. A point where we can all connect to a galactic consensus to share thoughts and emotions, where we could back up our very minds to it, where we could upgrade our bodies to the point where they are so different that we're barely a part of the human condition any more, where we could instead just leave our bodies behind and just become a part of a living spaceship. Those are very far-fetched notions right now, but it's, frankly, awesome ideas like those that we strive for. Those are the long term goals for us.

The ultimate purpose of humanity is to defeat the human condition and recreate it as something entirely our own.

Synthesis provides the chance to do just that, to finally be free of all concerns and take personal evolution into your own hands. It's pretty much the ultimate future, the point where we transcend from the human condition into something else. Yes, i'm a transhumanist, but for obvious reasons. Of course, the opposite end of this is being a luddite, where you absolutely hate any and all forms of advancement (only perhaps barely tolerating those you were born into). I always feel sad for luddites, because they're going to end up as those old people who long for 'the days when.' (And they might become those old people as early as the age of 30 depending on how much they hate modern technology.)

Whereas I'm quite a bit along that road myself, past middle age and still going strong. I'll be as ready for new technology when I'm 80 as I am today, and I will continue to feel sorry for those that aren't.

But yes, that's what Synthesis represents: The inevitable tomorrow.

I don't see why that's a bad thing, one step too far, or hard to understand.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 11 février 2013 - 03:16 .

[Wayning_Star]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@OP

I think the point of Synthesis was to present us with the technological Singularity, if you're familiar with that term. It's not about understanding everything, as we don't right now, it's about the rationale that if we continue evolving technology and the sciences, eventually we'll be able to leave nature and mortality behind. Nature and mortality tend to result in a lot of suffering, a lot of death, and some people embrace that death as they're unable to think outside of their small world perceptions, they're stuck in a very small box. Synthesis is for those that want to dream bigger.

For those, like myself, it's a conclusion wchich fits our ideals. It presents a future mostly sans suffering, it changes the human condition. We no longer have to be beasts reliant on instinct. Similar to the reapers, we will no longer be slaves to our own biologically programming. If you've been following scientific research at all, a lot of it is pretty much to overturn nature's own code. Curing diabetes recently had an interesting milestone, as did a potential future cure for cognitive decline (the lack of new neurons being created in old age).

Much of what we do is meant to augment our natural selves, to go past our own shortcomings. That shiny iPhone or Android phone you might have is a side-effect of that desire. A hundred years ago, you wouldn't be able to immediately and directly call a hospital or the police out on the street like you can now. This is all augmentation of the human condition, it's about overcoming our shortcomings and rebuilding ourselves into better creatures. Bionic eyes recently went on sale as a product to cure blindness (no, really). Every day we take another step towards the Singularity.

The Singularity is the event where we pretty much step aside from nature, because we have no more use for it, and we've taken evolution into our own hands. Essentially, we're free of nature's biological coding. And if you think about it, that's much of what Mass Effect 3 represents - everyone is a slave to their code. The synthetics are, the organics are, the reapers are. And yet we all want something better, and we strive for better things. Legion striving to provide code to allow his people to become truly sapient is reminiscent of our own struggle.

So, for a mind like mine, Synthesis isn't at all difficult to accept. It's the natural culmination of everything. It's what we're all heading towards, anyway. Every intelligent mind strives to escape the boundaries of nature. Every intelligent mind wants to undo damages brought about by us being natural creatures. If it wasn't for that drive, we wouldn't have people working on cures for the big bads, like cancer and STDs. The point of the Singularity is that at that point, those concerns stop being concerns, we're no longer slaves to the fear of them.

Synthesis represents that turning point. A point where we can all connect to a galactic consensus to share thoughts and emotions, where we could back up our very minds to it, where we could upgrade our bodies to the point where they are so different that we're barely a part of the human condition any more, where we could instead just leave our bodies behind and just become a part of a living spaceship. Those are very far-fetched notions right now, but it's, frankly, awesome ideas like those that we strive for. Those are the long term goals for us.

The ultimate purpose of humanity is to defeat the human condition and recreate it as something entirely our own.

Synthesis provides the chance to do just that, to finally be free of all concerns and take personal evolution into your own hands. It's pretty much the ultimate future, the point where we transcend from the human condition into something else. Yes, i'm a transhumanist, but for obvious reasons. Of course, the opposite end of this is being a luddite, where you absolutely hate any and all forms of advancement (only perhaps barely tolerating those you were born into). I always feel sad for luddites, because they're going to end up as those old people who long for 'the days when.' (And they might become those old people as early as the age of 30 depending on how much they hate modern technology.)

Whereas I'm quite a bit along that road myself, past middle age and still going strong. I'll be as ready for new technology when I'm 80 as I am today, and I will continue to feel sorry for those that aren't.

But yes, that's what Synthesis represents: The inevitable tomorrow.

I don't see why that's a bad thing, one step too far, or hard to understand.

the difference being that in the MEU synthesis mods nature, not just organic computer platforms..

[Wayning_Star]

Intellect, coming to a black hole near you..lol

[dorktainian]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Intellect, coming to a black hole near you..lol

 

yeah a literalist one.

[Auld Wulf]

@Wayning_Star

Uh. In my post I make the point that we're modding nature all the time. I mean, we've got artificial eyes, now, for crying out loud. They're not as high-resolution as the real deal, yet, but they're getting there. Give them a decade or two and they'll probably be so much better that we'll all want them.

And somehow, being able to replace parts of ourselves means that our intellectuality will disappear into a singularity (which isn't the same thing as the Singularity)?

I think you're trying to be clever but it isn't working?

[dorktainian]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Wayning_Star

Uh. In my post I make the point that we're modding nature all the time. I mean, we've got artificial eyes, now, for crying out loud. They're not as high-resolution as the real deal, yet, but they're getting there. Give them a decade or two and they'll probably be so much better that we'll all want them.

And somehow, being able to replace parts of ourselves means that our intellectuality will disappear into a singularity (which isn't the same thing as the Singularity)?

I think you're trying to be clever but it isn't working?

 

so you would have us lose the very thing that makes us human?  our diversity - which in itself is our strength.

Seriously?

Oh btw.  did we find any traces of Technology on the dinosaurs?  they had a hell of a lot longer on this planet than us to 'synthesise' but still ended up ......... birds.

[Wayning_Star]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Wayning_Star

Uh. In my post I make the point that we're modding nature all the time. I mean, we've got artificial eyes, now, for crying out loud. They're not as high-resolution as the real deal, yet, but they're getting there. Give them a decade or two and they'll probably be so much better that we'll all want them.

And somehow, being able to replace parts of ourselves means that our intellectuality will disappear into a singularity (which isn't the same thing as the Singularity)?

I think you're trying to be clever but it isn't working?

what?!? I never 'try' to be clever...lol

I've come to think of the MEU situation as the basis for an idea that organic evolution is loosly based on what it takes to exist in the enviornment. All that stuff you post is connected for sure, but in the MEU they've unloosed technology that actually thinks for it's self. Powerful as it is in that context, preempts nature it's self, and synthesis of nature, as making nature change, or the enviornment change, instead of the individual intellect it's self.

Instead of adapting to nature, evolve. The intelligence(all living beings,not just the cat) provide the power/ability to alter nature to suit,instead of evolving to suit nature, or evolve along the lines set out by nature. Why change yourself to learn to survive,when you can alter nature to it's roots, adapt it to your liking/needs.

As you say, we're doing that now in 'steps'. But in the story of the MEU, they're rewriting nature, as a form of evolution.

Nature doesn't really change, as about anything goes in nature?

[Wayning_Star]

dorktainian wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Wayning_Star

Uh. In my post I make the point that we're modding nature all the time. I mean, we've got artificial eyes, now, for crying out loud. They're not as high-resolution as the real deal, yet, but they're getting there. Give them a decade or two and they'll probably be so much better that we'll all want them.

And somehow, being able to replace parts of ourselves means that our intellectuality will disappear into a singularity (which isn't the same thing as the Singularity)?

I think you're trying to be clever but it isn't working?

 

so you would have us lose the very thing that makes us human?  our diversity - which in itself is our strength.

Seriously?

Oh btw.  did we find any traces of Technology on the dinosaurs?  they had a hell of a lot longer on this planet than us to 'synthesise' but still ended up ......... birds.

but you are doing what you complain of by attempt to quell thought of stuff you disagree with.

There are hints of ancient tech on earth..some of it rather disturbing.

[Hexley UK]

Still hate it but am resigned to the fact that Bioware wanted it to suck......apparently.

I pop on here occasionally to see if any "magical change & sincere apology" is gonna happen but i've mostly just lost interest in all things Bioware.

They won't be getting my money again thats for sure.....unless it's 2nd hand or in a bargain bin.

[cyrslash1974]

NatP wrote...

I love Mass Effect 3. I hate the endings and I always will.

This.

[Wayning_Star]

Nobody likes that story that never ends? Who knew?