387 réponses à ce sujet

[AkodoRyu]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Kaiden without a shirt is "fan-service" but Ashley with a tight shirt is "objectification" I guess.

Actually, different folks, different strokes. I never found any single guy in this game physically "attractive". Kaidan's hospital scene was rather repulsive and silly - don't they have any clothing on the ward? Ashley at least had a shirt. :/

(from someone who liked Kaidan as a character and LI, if that matters)

Modifié par AkodoRyu, 11 février 2013 - 06:42 .

[Mouton_Alpha]

DinoSteve wrote...

I agree that why Ashley has armour to wear into combat.

Except where she doesn't.

[FOX216BC]

 Sheploo doesn't mind

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I agree that why Ashley has armour to wear into combat.

Except where she doesn't.

Anytime she's in combat in my game she wears armour, but when shes doing sweet FA on the ship she can wear what she wants.

[Reorte]

Because when it becomes so blatant and over the top my immediate reaction isn't "Wow, she's hot" but "This character looks like she was designed by a 15 year old boy who's never seen the real thing." And when it gets applied to just about every single female character it becomes even sillier. A bit of sexiness is great. Trying to shove it in my face all the time (watch it!) just has me shaking my head. Of course sometimes it'll be right for the character; Jack's outfit in ME2, for example, that worked (not that I find her all that attractive but that's beside the point).

[mauro2222]

Sexy it's pretty subjective, Garrus is sexy to me, and not for his looks, Jack is sexy, Samara and Thane are also sexy, and those two are fan service, but their personality attracted me. If you create a character to look like a supermodel expecting that to compliment their personality, then you make it less attractive... that's why Miranda isn't attractive to me, too much time talking about her appareance.

Also, I don't make a connection between what they are wearing and their attitude. Kasumi wears the same skin tight suit than Samara, Thane, Miranda, or Jack... and is not the first thing that it comes to my mind when I think of her, because she, her attitude, is the best of her and the body is a plus and not the other way around, like it happens to me with Miranda for example.

And Ashley, no matter what they do to her, she's not attractive to me, soldier like attitudes and hurr durr patriotism is a major turn off for me.

Modifié par mauro2222, 11 février 2013 - 06:48 .

[Reorte]

mauro2222 wrote...

Sexy it's pretty subjective, Garrus is sexy to me, and not for his looks, Jack is sexy, Samara and Thane are also sexy, and this two have fan service, but their personality attracted me.

Interesting one, Samara. She manages it despite the so over the top they're just silly and not sexy boobs.

[Mouton_Alpha]

DinoSteve wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

I agree that why Ashley has armour to wear into combat.

Except where she doesn't.

Anytime she's in combat in my game she wears armour, but when shes doing sweet FA on the ship she can wear what she wants.

Sure, I can also play dress-up with miranda alt appearance pack and pretend she is not swaying her things all around the place.

[TheRealJayDee]

CynicalShep wrote...

The main problem is Bioware thinking that sexy-time is more important than common sense. In what skewed and twisted little world is this ...



considered better looking than this ...

I have nothing at all against "sexy" characters. It's just the Bioware design teams' seemingly very narrow-minded interpretation of what constitutes "sexy" and the need to apply it to characters that have absolutely no need for it that irritates and angers me. Ash was a perfectly attractive character in her own way, and the steps they thought neccessary to enhance her appeal all but ruined what made her appealing in the first place and severely hurt the character imo.

I never fully understood what people found endearing or interesting about Miranda, and I rarely used her outside her own missions until she got her apperance pack armour, just for practical reasons. Would I have wished for Miranda to be turned into an Ashley clone in ME3? Nope, Miri is Miri, and that's perfectly fine with me.

Just don't make drastic changes to existing characters, and everything's shiny.

[mauro2222]

AkodoRyu wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Kaiden without a shirt is "fan-service" but Ashley with a tight shirt is "objectification" I guess.

Actually, different folks, different strokes. I never found any single guy in this game physically "attractive". Kaidan's hospital scene was rather repulsive and silly - don't they have any clothing on the ward? Ashley at least had a shirt. :/

(from someone who liked Kaidan as a character and LI, if that matters)

His body - the same model for everyone haha - looks so weird, even feels anatomically incorrect.

[CynicalShep]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I have nothing at all against "sexy" characters. It's just the Bioware design teams' seemingly very narrow-minded interpretation of what constitutes "sexy" and the need to apply it to characters that have absolutely no need for it that irritates and angers me. Ash was a perfectly attractive character in her own way, and the steps they thought neccessary to enhance her appeal all but ruined what made her appealing in the first place and severely hurt the character imo. 

Yes, this is indeed what happened.

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I never fully understood what people found endearing or interesting about Miranda, and I rarely used her outside her own missions until she got her apperance pack armour, just for practical reasons. Would I have wished for Miranda to be turned into an Ashley clone in ME3? Nope, Miri is Miri, and that's perfectly fine with me.

Just don't make drastic changes to existing characters, and everything's shiny.

I like that she's a strong woman. She is self-sufficient, headstrong and challenges your authority. That's what I always liked in a woman in RL and Miranda is one of the few in-game that fit the bill. That being said - I thought her ass shots were ridiculous and detract from her appeal. 

[Gethrian]

As female I find it annoying to see nothing but sexy females in most games and if character is overly sexualized then most of the time I don't even find them sexy anymore. Also as female I might have differend idea what is sexy.

I don't really hate Ashleys new look (though I prefer how she looked before) but reason behind it. It was unnecessary. Only thing Ireally don't like is her new hair style when she's in combat. Not that I expect BioWare to make other hair style just for that. I don't mind her new outfit as long as she wears armor in combat. Though I wish she could wear white version of it while on Normandy.

Edi is just way over sexualized. Enough so that I don't even find her sexy. I actually started to roll my eyes and sigh every time I saw those "awesomely placed camera angles" when talking to Miranda.

Modifié par DarkZexy, 11 février 2013 - 08:16 .

[Han Shot First]

There isn't anything wrong with sexy characters.

I think where it starts to rub people the wrong way is when it is so over-the-top that the characters no longer bear a resemblance to real people, appear out of character, or is just done as fanservice.

Take Miranda as an example. I don't think many people would complain about the character being designed to be sexy, after all she is supposed to be a femme fatale. Where people started to facepalm was the gratuitous close up shots of Miranda's ass during conversations that were obviously only there as fan service. People also didn't like that she didn't have an alternate outfit beyond the two default catsuits that was actual armor.

Samara is another example. I don't think anyone would complain about the character being sexy. What they did complain about was armor that not only had exposed cleavage, but was practically open to her navel.

The biggest complaint about EDI's character model? The totally unnecessary cameltoe.

[SwordofMercy1]

Because it doesn't fit them and makes no sense story-wise.
It was established in ME1 the Ashley considers herself a tomboy; That she is a soldier first, and a woman second. We get to ME3 and that goes out the airlock. For one thing, her body is unrealistic. Female soldiers do not have THAT large of breast. Unfortunately for us girls, when we work out, that's one of the first things we lose. Her arms and legs are way too thin; She probably couldn't lift a rifle let alone fire one! I swear, Liara has more of a soldier body, and she is a freaking asari scientist! I also critic her style. It is against regulation to have your hair down if it goes past your shoulders. You either put it up, or cut it off; End of story. Secondly, why is she wearing high-heeled shoes in combat; I know they are wedges, but they are still high-heeled. The thing with shoes like that is that they may look pretty, but you are just one faulty pebble away from breaking your ankle. Last time I checked, you can't fight very well with a broken ankle. Then you get to her make-up... which is going make a huge mess when she starts sweating.
EDI is just plain silly. WTF Bioware. She is an infiltrator unit. The point of that is to blend in! You can't really do that is your boobs and butt continuously nudge the people in front and behind you. An average looking bot would have freaking sufficed.
Way to stick to the stereotyping of the ideal woman Bioware .

[Sejborg]

CynicalShep wrote...

The main problem is Bioware thinking that sexy-time is more important than common sense. In what skewed and twisted little world is this ...



considered better looking than this ...

So the problem is that Ashley isn't sexy anymore?

[Rhayak]

Well, i won't be a hypocrite and say i don't appreciate sexy characters in skimpy outfits....

But it IS quite ridicolous to see someone marching into an apocalyptic firefight wearing "Blue Battle Armor with Cleavage", "Erotic Scientist", "Fantasy Rogue" or "Nothing but tatoos".

(the last being the main reason i never brought Jack along in ME2. I just couldn't stand to see her taking rockets bare-chested.... perhaps there was a percentage of metal in tatoo ink that provided some degree of armor? LOL)

At least the alternate looks were credible.

....Then again, Miranda started wearing her black battle armor in the office too. Filthy one!

[CynicalShep]

Sejborg wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

The main problem is Bioware thinking that sexy-time is more important than common sense. In what skewed and twisted little world is this ...



considered better looking than this ...

So the problem is that Ashley isn't sexy anymore?

There is a difference between sexy and good-looking. Ashley is good-looking in ME1 and neither in ME3 IMO (although there is clear intent to make her look sexy). The problem is that the more in-your-face fanservice is the less I can take a character seriously. Like I said beore - I might like Miranda as a character but her ass shots were just ridiculous.

[Mr.House]

Looking sexy and being over the top sexy just for the sake of sex appeal are two different things.

Modifié par Mr.House, 11 février 2013 - 08:53 .

[DeinonSlayer]

What CynicalShep said.

[Shaleist]

Lets identifythe ridiculous armors. I will give out of combat clothes a pass IE Vegas muscle tee.
1. Anything Jack wore. Ever. Should have had an alliance get up in me3 anyways.
2. Every Miranda outfit.
3. Every Samaraoutfit.
4. Every armor that exposed skin to vacuums, harsh planets etc.
5.Jacobs skintight suit. Points for not having impractical shoes.
6. Garrus wearing armor that was obviously ruined by a missle to the face.
7. EDI. Intended to confuse with excess boobage.
did I miss anything?

[Sejborg]

CynicalShep wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

The main problem is Bioware thinking that sexy-time is more important than common sense. In what skewed and twisted little world is this ...



considered better looking than this ...

So the problem is that Ashley isn't sexy anymore?

There is a difference between sexy and good-looking. Ashley is good-looking in ME1 and neither in ME3 IMO (although there is clear intent to make her look sexy). The problem is that the more in-your-face fanservice is the less I can take a character seriously. Like I said beore - I might like Miranda as a character but her ass shots were just ridiculous.

I see. So if Ashley were good looking as well in ME3 then there wouldn't be a problem?

The scene with Miranda in ME2 is just weird. She walks over and poses up against the desk, and then the camera angle switches. It was just weird. The ass shots of Aria in Omega dlc was handled much better. 

Nothing wrong with ass shots. It just needs to be done in a manner that makes sense. 

Modifié par Sejborg, 11 février 2013 - 09:11 .

[Han Shot First]

I was fine with Ashley's hair in ME3.

After all women in the military do often have long hair that they tie up in a bun while on duty. Ashley with her hair down on the Citadel I didn't see as a big deal, and you can always have Ashley wear a helmet in combat.

I think Ashley's default outfit was a mistake however. Why is she the only Alliance character in the series to wear that 'uniform?' It would have made much more sense to have her wear Alliance utilities like Traynor when aboard the Normandy.

[CynicalShep]

@ Sejborg

Yes, there wouldn't be a problem. No need for botox, gloss and silicone.

See, if they were to only do that ass shot once it would be more of an "easter egg". As it is it's more of a "are you f**kin' kidding me?" shot.

[Obvakhi]

Han Shot First wrote...

I was fine with Ashley's hair in ME3.

After all women in the military do often have long hair that they tie up in a bun while on duty. Ashley with her hair down on the Citadel I didn't see as a big deal, and you can always have Ashley wear a helmet in combat.

I think Ashley's default outfit was a mistake however. Why is she the only Alliance character in the series to wear that 'uniform?' It would have made much more sense to have her wear Alliance utilities like Traynor when aboard the Normandy.

If Shepard can wear a hoodie and leather jacket/dress, then I don't see why Ashley can't wear something different.

Modifié par Obvakhi, 11 février 2013 - 09:27 .

[1337b0r0m1r]

ArtuThepig wrote...

 I've seen a lot of threads complaining about the EDIs body,or Ashley "Mirandification".Sincerly i don't understand why you should hate them,having a sexy character is always a good think,because characters became more attractive.What do you think?

Because many people of both genders, me included, consider this as sexist portrayal of women. Don't get me wrong: There's nothing wrong with sexy, but it should only happen in realistic circumstances and in a mature way. In Mass Effect, that could be, for instance, during a wild night at Afterlife, or in the captain's quarters, if you know what I mean. However, women should not wear a thin and skin-tight catsuit and heels in combat, or expose the most crucial location of the body by showing cleavage. That's just unrealistic, by any standard.
Also, Jack's outfit would also be very prone to Nipplegates. I never cared much for Ashley, but her gravity-defying breasts on the hospital bed were just unreal.

And even if you disagree here, there's no excuse at all for the camera to linger that long on Miranda's infamous butt in cutscenes. 

And that's not just, if you want, a fight for a noble cause, many people really feel uncomfortable with it. For me, that was a reason to rarely take Miranda or Samara on missions - Miranda in her attire just felt so out of place in a battlezone, and Samara's cleavage was just too unreal. 
Sexist portrayal doesn't stop at looks, it also affects characterization, but I don't want to dive into that right now. 

It needs to be said, however, that the portrayal of women in the Mass Effect series is much better than what you usually see in gaming, and BioWare deserves much credit for that. Still, you could do even better.

Modifié par 1337b0r0m1r, 11 février 2013 - 09:39 .