324 réponses à ce sujet

[PainCakesx]

CronoDragoon wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

They've been underperforming.

My point is that it's true that other companies may have handled their PR very poorly, but they paid the price. 

If BioWare follows their lead, they'll pay the same price in future sales.

Dead Space does not support your argument very well, since the reason the series shifted away from horror in the first place was underperforming sales of the first game, which led to more action and a snarky protagonist in Dead Space 2, which sold very well. As for Resident Evil, I'm not sure Capcom regrets its decision, since it probably still thinks (unfortunately) that despite underperfoming RE6 still sold more than a straight survival horror game would have.

As for whether or not ME4 will pay the price: who knows? Perhaps it will. Perhaps it won't.

If that's true, why is DS3 selling less than DS2 was at the same time in its sales cycle?

They wanted to bring in more sales, but that doesn't mean they succeded.

[CronoDragoon]

spotlessvoid wrote...

Maybe if Casey and Mac actually opened some dialogue about it instead of acting like "No, it's awesome, you fans are just stupid and whiny, buy DLC" people could actually try to move past it.

Oh, man, I totally didn't know they said that. That changes everything. Provide the links where they said anything close to resembling this so I can change my mind.

[Dr_Extrem]

wright1978 wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

How can you consider the EC massive? The only reason it was so large was because they rendered stupid still pics as one long high res video. It's a soggy band-aid on a gaping head wound.

Anyone that thinks the EC fixed anything isn't paying attention

Yeah describing EC as massive is rather comical.

its filesize is massive .. thats all. 

the evac-scene is the worst schmalz, i ever had to see in a movie, game .. ect. and dont get me started on the edi-situation.

garrus and joker abandoning shepard is not normal - but on ec, it is. how could bioware retcon the two most loyal characters? 

edit: from this POV, the changes are massive too .. i have never seen a patch, who makes a story even worse.


btw. each scene inside the slide, is a single video - its a bundle of videos so to say.

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 12 février 2013 - 09:04 .

[Almostfaceman]

Robosexual wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

I don't consider a massive, free DLC, that was released ASAP, to be little. In fact I don't recall in recent history a time where any games company has done anything like this.

Your satisfaction is obviously not at issue here. Mine is. I'm not satisfied. You can blah blah about subjective all day, but the point is still Bioware promised something and I don't think they delivered. People, including myself, have typed a novel's worth of feedback as to why we're not satisfied. Just because you don't agree with us, doesn't change the fact that we're not satisfied customers. That's what Bioware is in the business of doing, producing games that satisfy customers. 

Which they did. If you're not satisfied then you can do what every unsatisfied customer does for everything:

Take your business elsewhere.

It being a free country, I can also provide Bioware or any other company feedback so they can possibly win back my business, which is both perfectly logical and reasonable. Whether you want to hear about it or not is irrelevent. 

[CronoDragoon]

PainCakesx wrote...
If that's true, why is DS3 selling less than DS2 was at the same time in its sales cycle?

They wanted to bring in more sales, but that doesn't mean they succeded.

It's entirely possible that they just made a worse game this time. Mass Effect 2's changes were probably to increase sales, and now it's apparently the most popular of the fanbase. The core fanbase is almost by definition opposed to change, but sometimes the change can result in a better game and sometimes worse.

[Clayless]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Which they did. If you're not satisfied then you can do what every unsatisfied customer does for everything:

Take your business elsewhere.

It being a free country, I can also provide Bioware or any other company feedback so they can possibly win back my business, which is both perfectly logical and reasonable. Whether you want to hear about it or not is irrelevent. 

And it being a capitalist country, your power ends at your wallet.

[NatP]

I wish Drayfish was here. He'd explain exactly why I, and so many others, don't like the ending. I'm just not as "gifted" as he is in that department lol.

[PainCakesx]

CronoDragoon wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...
If that's true, why is DS3 selling less than DS2 was at the same time in its sales cycle?

They wanted to bring in more sales, but that doesn't mean they succeded.

It's entirely possible that they just made a worse game this time. Mass Effect 2's changes were probably to increase sales, and now it's apparently the most popular of the fanbase. The core fanbase is almost by definition opposed to change, but sometimes the change can result in a better game and sometimes worse.

I personally thought ME2's gameplay improved but didn't undermine ME1's gameplay. Some may disagree, but most felt it was better.

DS3's gameplay, as well as RE6's gameplay changes actually undermine what the franchises were built upon.

That's the difference so far as I can tell.

[Nerevar-as]

PainCakesx wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Note RE6's and DS3's sales relative to their predecessors.

What are their sales, and besides what does that have to do with criticism stemming from the core fan base?

They've been underperforming.

My point is that it's true that other companies may have handled their PR very poorly, but they paid the price. 

If BioWare follows their lead, they'll pay the same price in future sales.

DMC reboot too. Capcom kind of blamed the fans for voting with their wallets. So it seems it turns out, you don´t listen to the people who buy your games about what they like and not, and the sequels underperform. Who knew?

[MattFini]

PainCakesx wrote...

If that's true, why is DS3 selling less than DS2 was at the same time in its sales cycle?

They wanted to bring in more sales, but that doesn't mean they succeded.

I would argue that at least SOME of Dead Space 2's success came from people slowing discovering the quality of the first game.

The first Dead Space wasn't exactly a blockbuster, but it seemed to be a game that continued finding an audience long after it has been released..

Now, as to why DS3 isn't selling as well as 2 .... I'm not sure.

Maybe the market's crowded and most people are waiting for Metal Gear, BioShock, Tomb Raider, etc.?

Modifié par MattFini, 12 février 2013 - 09:13 .

[CronoDragoon]

PainCakesx wrote...

DS3's gameplay, as well as RE6's gameplay changes actually undermine what the franchises were built upon.

That's the difference so far as I can tell.

To tie this back to your original question was then: there you go! Great examples of companies truly ignoring their core fanbase in response to criticism.

Also note that these are fundamentally different examples anyway, since the criticism we are talking about here is about ME3's ending, and therefore measuring BW's response in comparison can only be done by comparing it to ME4's ending.

[dreamgazer]

PainCakesx wrote...

DS3's gameplay, as well as RE6's gameplay changes actually undermine what the franchises were built upon.

Those didn't happen overnight, though. DS2's action escalated from DS and lost some of the horror, and RE's metamorphosis from survival-horror to action-horror started with RE4.

Not entirely relevant to the conversation, but ... 

[PainCakesx]

CronoDragoon wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

DS3's gameplay, as well as RE6's gameplay changes actually undermine what the franchises were built upon.

That's the difference so far as I can tell.

To tie this back to your original question was then: there you go! Great examples of companies truly ignoring their core fanbase in response to criticism.

Also note that these are fundamentally different examples anyway, since the criticism we are talking about here is about ME3's ending, and therefore measuring BW's response in comparison can only be done by comparing it to ME4's ending.

It can be compared to the endings of ME1 and ME2, similar to how DS3 and RE6 are compared to their predecessors.

And so far as I can recall, the endings to ME1 and ME2 were generally praised.

EDIT* I misread what you said. In terms of sales, then yes, we'll see what happens with ME4.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 09:15 .

[MattFini]

Also, Capcom said they're considering a reboot of Resident Evil, which would take the franchise back to its "survival horror" roots - which is what the fans have been begging for for the past 5-6 years.

[Almostfaceman]

Robosexual wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Which they did. If you're not satisfied then you can do what every unsatisfied customer does for everything:

Take your business elsewhere.

It being a free country, I can also provide Bioware or any other company feedback so they can possibly win back my business, which is both perfectly logical and reasonable. Whether you want to hear about it or not is irrelevent. 

And it being a capitalist country, your power ends at your wallet.

Well, see, that's where you're wrong. There are many cases in which dialogue between customer and business produce positive results. So, the power can extend beyond my wallet and into dialogue. Customer satisfaction, returning customers, good word of mouth, yadda yadda yadda. Because a smart business knows it's not just my wallet at stake, but possibly the wallets of all my friends and my family and acquaintances. We're social beings and any business that fails to realize this hurts themselves. 

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 12 février 2013 - 09:20 .

[PainCakesx]

dreamgazer wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

DS3's gameplay, as well as RE6's gameplay changes actually undermine what the franchises were built upon.

Those didn't happen overnight, though. DS2's action escalated from DS and lost some of the horror, and RE's metamorphosis from survival-horror to action-horror started with RE4.

Not entirely relevant to the conversation, but ... 

I agree, and I personally didn't like DS2 as much as DS1 or RE4 as much as the predecessors. Similar to how the Silent Hilll franchise has recently become action based.

RE6 and DS3 take it to another level, but that's a discussion for another thread.

[CronoDragoon]

MattFini wrote...

Also, Capcom said they're considering a reboot of Resident Evil, which would take the franchise back to its "survival horror" roots - which is what the fans have been begging for for the past 5-6 years.

Arguably they've already taken the first step for this by port/remaking Revelations for the consoles. /glee

So yeah, I think it's a safe bet that ME3's story criticisms will be reflected in ME4's ending.

Again, I'm fine with criticizing ME3. As long as it's done respectfully and without indicting either the work ethic or business practices of BioWare, of which you have no knowledge.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 février 2013 - 09:19 .

[spotlessvoid]

CronoDragoon wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Maybe if Casey and Mac actually opened some dialogue about it instead of acting like "No, it's awesome, you fans are just stupid and whiny, buy DLC" people could actually try to move past it.

Oh, man, I totally didn't know they said that. That changes everything. Provide the links where they said anything close to resembling this so I can change my mind.

did I write say? pretty sure I said acting like. 

[AlanC9]

dreamgazer wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

DS3's gameplay, as well as RE6's gameplay changes actually undermine what the franchises were built upon.

Those didn't happen overnight, though. DS2's action escalated from DS and lost some of the horror, and RE's metamorphosis from survival-horror to action-horror started with RE4.

Not entirely relevant to the conversation, but ... 

What's the difference between survival-horror and action-horror, anyway?

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...
 Lots of people snark at Ray's statement that they need to find a balance between listening to fans and respecting their writers. What exactly is wrong with that statement?

The balance point used

[CronoDragoon]

spotlessvoid wrote...
did I write say? pretty sure I said acting like. 

Oh, man, I totally didn't know they acted like that. That changes everything.  Provide the links where they acted anything close to resembling this so I can change my mind.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 février 2013 - 09:21 .

[Clayless]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

And it being a capitalist country, your power ends at your wallet.

Well, see, that's where you're wrong. There are many cases in which dialogue between customer and business produce positive results.

Like the EC.

So, the power can extend beyond my wallet and into dialogue. Customer satisfaction, returning customers, good word of mouth, yadda yadda yadda. Because a smart business knows it's not just my wallet at stake, but possibly the wallets of all my friends and my family and aquantainces. We're social beings and any business that fails to realize this hurts themselves.

Then that's their problem, not yours. If you dislike it you are free to take your business elsewhere.

[BirdsallSa]

spotlessvoid wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Maybe if Casey and Mac actually opened some dialogue about it instead of acting like "No, it's awesome, you fans are just stupid and whiny, buy DLC" people could actually try to move past it.

Oh, man, I totally didn't know they said that. That changes everything. Provide the links where they said anything close to resembling this so I can change my mind.

did I write say? pretty sure I said acting like. 

It doesn't matter what you said. You implied it. If you don't like the endings why don't you just leave? The only real Bioware fans are the ones who appreciate the amazing game they've crafted.

[spotlessvoid]

Mass Effect is SO much more story oriented than most games. The player agency given also created a tremendous sense of ownership. So yeah, ME's narrative is held to a higher standard because that's it's primary selling point. To vomit all over that with the ending isn't going over well, despite what some are trying to say

[CronoDragoon]

AlanC9 wrote...

What's the difference between survival-horror and action-horror, anyway?

I'd guess the number of bullets, and proportion of scare set-pieces to action set pieces.