324 réponses à ce sujet

[MegaSovereign]

PainCakesx wrote...

The-Biotic-God wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...


Regardless, if they choose to ignore feedback for changed endings, then they ARE ignoring a bulk of the feedback. 

They're not ignoring it. They;'re just not obeying it. There is a difference, you know.

The backlash against the ME3 ending is unprecedented. It's damn near historic. 

The EC helped, but the discussions still run rampant, and not just on BSN. People I know in real life and on other forums are still bitter over it - it's not by any means confined to BSN. If BioWare's strategy is to hope the whole thing blows over, it won't. People will continue to be bitter, and you can bet that after this DLC cycle is through, people will still talk about the ending here.

This isn't going away. And even if the more vocal people leave, as has been the case over the past year, it won't change the fact that a huge portion of the fanbase is bitter over the whole ordeal. That won't likely change for a long time. 

People will move on eventually. "Part of the fanbase" isn't really an official/static thing. Old fans who don't like the "new direction" will leave and a new audience will eventually replace them.

I think you're overestimating the impact of this. Worst case scenario is that they'll reboot the series and even then this is an unlikely scenario.

Yes, obviously people will eventually move on. But moving on doesn't = forgive and forget. I've been burned before, and while I stop caring eventually it doesn't mean that I've forgotten about it. It's not that I'm against change, but a poor ending to an otherwise excellent trilogy is hard to swallow. 

Additionally, I don't know what kind of new audience they hope to bring in if the ending of ME3 is the norm they wish to use in future ME games. ME became popular because of its good writing, likeable characters, solid gameplay and immersiveness. I don't see any audience that would be happy with chucking any of these elements out the window, unless they really are going for the oversaturated brainless FPS / TPS market.

Huh? Their strategy isn't to attract audiences with bad writing. It's one blunder that doesn't necessarily doom Bioware to making the same mistakes over and over.

You didn't like the ending so obviously Bioware and anyone else who likes their new content have lower standards? Sorry but that attitude is ridiculously pretentious.

And again, no one is married to these games. ME4 may as well blow chunks for all I care, but if ME5 impresses me I'll buy that. I don't go around campaigning my gaming preferences in real life so again the impact you say ME3's endings will have is an overestimation IMO.

[Hurbster]

No changing the endings, eh ? Oh well, there goes my enthusiasm. Will have to be damn good to get my money. And by the looks of Leviathan and Omega I highly doubt that.

[OdanUrr]

Listening to feedback does not necessarily imply that all feedback will be addressed, that's simply not feasible (particularly when different people may demand contradictory things). Thus, it's more than a bit unfair to decry Bioware has not been listening simply because no (further) "ending" DLC has been released. Ultimately, whatever feedback Bioware chooses to address will largely depend on the story they want to tell.

[davishepard]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As I said, hopefully you will see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

I am very curious to see what feedback were took in consideration in this new DLC.
Aside from the endings that people still want to complain about - even being useless to do so-, there were feedback provided in many areas, from better LI content to a better participation from the ME2 cast.

Anyway, looking forward to it, and this is day one to me!

[PainCakesx]

The-Biotic-God wrote...

Huh? Their strategy isn't to attract audiences with bad writing. It's one blunder that doesn't necessarily doom Bioware to making the same mistakes over and over.

You didn't like the ending so obviously Bioware and anyone else who likes their new content have lower standards? Sorry but that attitude is ridiculously pretentious.

And again, no one is married to these games. ME4 may as well blow chunks for all I care, but if ME5 impresses me I'll buy that. I don't go around campaigning my gaming preferences in real life so again the impact you say ME3's endings will have is an overestimation IMO.

You misinterpreted what I was saying. 

What I was saying was that choosing to ignore the ending in hopes that people will forget is a fool's errand. ME4 will probably sell just fine, but it's virtualy guarenteed to sell fewer copies than it would otherwise because of the ending fiasco. That doesn't mean it will flop, just that it won't do as well as it would otherwise. 

I'm not one of those people - I myself am looking forward to ME4 quite a bit and am willing to give BioWare one more chance. But I know plenty of people who have written off ME4 and BioWare completely. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 12:25 .

[Clayless]

This comes as a surprise to no one that listened to Bioware since the EC was announced.

[PainCakesx]

OdanUrr wrote...

Listening to feedback does not necessarily imply that all feedback will be addressed, that's simply not feasible (particularly when different people may demand contradictory things). Thus, it's more than a bit unfair to decry Bioware has not been listening simply because no (further) "ending" DLC has been released. Ultimately, whatever feedback Bioware chooses to address will largely depend on the story they want to tell.

I too have seen feedback on better LI content, ME2 character content etc., but it has been rather muted compared to feedback for post-ending / ending content. 

Not everyone wants it, but it's undeniable but that it's been the number one request since day 1. 

Robosexual wrote...
This comes as a surprise to no one that listened to Bioware since the EC was announced.

The same BioWare that flat out denied that there was going to be a Leviathan and Omega DLC? 

The story of the boy who cried wolf seems to apply quite well here. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 12:28 .

[Clayless]

PainCakesx wrote...

Robosexual wrote...
This comes as a surprise to no one that listened to Bioware since the EC was announced.

The same BioWare that flat out denied that there was going to be a Leviathan and Omega DLC? 

The story of the boy who cried wolf seems to apply quite well here. 

Source?

[PainCakesx]

You've been here since 2011 and you aren't aware of this?

I don't know where to find his original quotes, but here is an example:

http://news.softpedi...ts-269851.shtml

And the leaks are confirmed to be true:

http://blog.bioware....rebellion-pack/

This isn't intended to be disrespectful to Priestly or Merizan as it's their job to deny leaks and such, but this is why people take everything they say "officially" with a grain of salt. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 12:35 .

[xeniskull]

They really won't do it. Besides there were lot of things that were not shown. Like you I was hoping something like Geth Primes (if you united geth and quarian) dropping from sky and saving the day. Rachni queen clearing hordes of husks or taking down 4 Brutes in one go and one Epic Speech from Shepard before final showdown (current speech is ****ty).

[Meltemph]

I disagree that lack of closure for Shep is trivial. It's true the endings make making a sequel tricky, but I think closure for the protagonist is far from trivial.

Ya, but closure doesn't fix the ending in terms of the consequences of having endings like this, it just gives people who want closure, closure. I'm not seeing how that would help the situation.

[PainCakesx]

Meltemph wrote...

I disagree that lack of closure for Shep is trivial. It's true the endings make making a sequel tricky, but I think closure for the protagonist is far from trivial.

Ya, but closure doesn't fix the ending in terms of the consequences of having endings like this, it just gives people who want closure, closure. I'm not seeing how that would help the situation.

Well, as much as I'd like a complete overhaul of the ending, I can understand BioWare not doing that.

Simple fixes, though, don't make much sense. 

[OdanUrr]

PainCakesx wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Listening to feedback does not necessarily imply that all feedback will be addressed, that's simply not feasible (particularly when different people may demand contradictory things). Thus, it's more than a bit unfair to decry Bioware has not been listening simply because no (further) "ending" DLC has been released. Ultimately, whatever feedback Bioware chooses to address will largely depend on the story they want to tell.

I too have seen feedback on better LI content, ME2 character content etc., but it has been rather muted compared to feedback for post-ending / ending content. 

Not everyone wants it, but it's undeniable but that it's been the number one request since day 1. 

Certainly, but let's remember there's been a LOT of feedback on the endings and almost everyone proposes different things. What, in your opinion, are the core demands related to the endings?

[ld1449]

Chris Priestly wrote...



I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here. Then I calmed
down. Then some coffee. Then I played some more of the upcoming DLC. Now
I'm replying.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the
feedback you give us matters. I cannot discuss the upcoming DLC yet, but
I think people will see that we listened to feedback and, hopefully,
you will see that reflected in the product.

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the
endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying
it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give
feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you
enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

To
say "they're not giving us new endings, they aren't listening" (or
whatever) is not true. You assumed that, despite us repeatedly saying we
would not change the ending, that we would change the ending. We are
listening, but we said almost 9 months ago that the endings would not
change, you ignored this. You also assume that the only feedback we had
was about the ending of the game.

As I said, hopefully you will
see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait
for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be
talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but
it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

You know this might very well be the last statement I ever put on these boards all things considered. At this stage in the game I have very little reason to return or ever even look back into this place so let me just go ahead and respond to at least this statement that I take issue with.

Lets go point by point.

I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here.

First off, whoop dee do- I'll start to care about your anger about as much as you ever cared for anyone elses after they beat your hack job of a product 9 months ago.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the
feedback you give us matters.

We'll be discussing the merits of this particular piece shortly.

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the
endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying
it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give
feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you
enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

First off, yes you did, hoo-ray. Its about the only thing throughout this song and dance that you've said with any merit too it. Which is sad considering that not even your pre release statements hold much merit. The one thing most, or at least half of your fanbase didn't want to hear, you've delivered on magnificently. The one statement that required absolutely no effort and no work from you.

Here's an award. Would you like it delivered on a red, blue or green pillow.

 You also assume that the only feedback we had
was about the ending of the game.

Who in the hell do you think you're kidding?

Nothing about this game has ever been able to escape the shadow of the ending.

Two of your three SP DLC's so far have revolved around the ending. What exactly were your other major concerns post release? Dinosaur DLC? Omega that is well known to have been fairly developed during the games innitial development already?

You have nearly every major review site, even your most rabid backers IGN basically saying that all DLC is largely moot, pointless, bland or otherwise irrelevant when taken into account with the endings.

This game is remembered solely for the mental abortion that was and still is its ending. You put flowers on a rotting corpse. Plastic flowers that can't even try to cover up the smell.

Feel proud. This is your accomplishment after a decade of work.


As I said, hopefully you will
see the new DLC  does take feedback into consideration.

What? It took you nine months to lay off the calibration jokes? Or to pull back on the auto dialogue?

You've cherry picked what is easiest to implement into a plan that you've refused to alter outside the bare minimum. One interview with Drew basically just flat out admitted that you people don't alter anything that's on the DLC drawing board unless its easy to do so.

In other words. We value your feedback, when its convenient for us to do so. When its convenient Not when there's demand. Oh no. Not when 98% of the people that have bought this game are clamoring for nearly a complete rewrite of the last ten minutes ohhhh no. Can't do that. That would just be inconvenient.

Can't satisfy everybody right?

Do the bare minimum. The plastic flowers over the corpse.

People can put their stock of something being taken into account for maybe the next game. Again, only if its convenient.

But with your boss, Casey so far at least, still being on board I don't really put much stock into his competence, your truthfulness or this company's integrity.

I'll see myself out.

Modifié par ld1449, 12 février 2013 - 12:45 .

[PainCakesx]

OdanUrr wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Listening to feedback does not necessarily imply that all feedback will be addressed, that's simply not feasible (particularly when different people may demand contradictory things). Thus, it's more than a bit unfair to decry Bioware has not been listening simply because no (further) "ending" DLC has been released. Ultimately, whatever feedback Bioware chooses to address will largely depend on the story they want to tell.

I too have seen feedback on better LI content, ME2 character content etc., but it has been rather muted compared to feedback for post-ending / ending content. 

Not everyone wants it, but it's undeniable but that it's been the number one request since day 1. 

Certainly, but let's remember there's been a LOT of feedback on the endings and almost everyone proposes different things. What, in your opinion, are the core demands related to the endings?

1) War assets in action.
2) Removal of catalyst (unreasonable, so I understand them not doing this)
3) "Fixing" of the Catalyst's broken logic 
4) Expansion of breath scene

While this doesn't cover everything, I don't see too many people that would be upset with these changes. May not satisfy everyone, but it would be a hell of a lot better than nothing. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 01:04 .

[BearlyHere]

It isn't just a toxic atmosphere at the BSN  either. Do a search for ME3 dlc, and the dissapointing ending is the main topic on every site. Sorry you're offended, Chris, but Bioware is listening like a kid with his fingers in his ears going "Nanananana can't hear you." What part of "kills replayability" don't they get? Even if this DLC gets glowing player reviews, if there is no closure, and if red blue green is all  we have to hope for, what's the point?  That's what I am hearing everywhere. Even with MEHEM, I can't get past it enough to start another game.

[Dean_the_Young]

PainCakesx wrote...

Additionally, I don't know what kind of new audience they hope to bring in if the ending of ME3 is the norm they wish to use in future ME games. ME became popular because of its good writing, likeable characters, solid gameplay and immersiveness. I don't see any audience that would be happy with chucking any of these elements out the window, unless they really are going for the oversaturated brainless FPS / TPS market.

I'd dispute the good writing bit, as ME1 ranged from inspired to mediocre even without the gameplay and ME2 was a mess of a trilogy mid-quel, and would argue that the ME universe never built its fanbase on its ending in the first place so why it would need to in the future isn't quite clear except as a selective data point.

I've also a hard time seeing a credible claim that ME3 as a whole threw out those elements any more than the others, and particularly why it would merit being compared to the 'brainless' FPS/TPS market. Surely with core arcs such as Rannoch and Tuchanka, it should at least be in the 'brain-using' segment?

[Clayless]

PainCakesx wrote...

You've been here since 2011 and you aren't aware of this?

I don't know where to find his original quotes, but here is an example:

http://news.softpedi...ts-269851.shtml

And the leaks are confirmed to be true:

http://blog.bioware....rebellion-pack/

This isn't intended to be disrespectful to Priestly or Merizan as it's their job to deny leaks and such, but this is why people take everything they say "officially" with a grain of salt. 

There's no source there except them saying "the page is now unavailable" after their claim. You could claim anything and then imediately say "but there's no source" and it wouldn't fly, well, anywhere.

So I'll need a source of some sort.

[OdanUrr]

PainCakesx wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Listening to feedback does not necessarily imply that all feedback will be addressed, that's simply not feasible (particularly when different people may demand contradictory things). Thus, it's more than a bit unfair to decry Bioware has not been listening simply because no (further) "ending" DLC has been released. Ultimately, whatever feedback Bioware chooses to address will largely depend on the story they want to tell.

I too have seen feedback on better LI content, ME2 character content etc., but it has been rather muted compared to feedback for post-ending / ending content. 

Not everyone wants it, but it's undeniable but that it's been the number one request since day 1. 

Certainly, but let's remember there's been a LOT of feedback on the endings and almost everyone proposes different things. What, in your opinion, are the core demands related to the endings?

1) War assets in action.
2) Removal of catalyst (unreasonable, so I understand them not doing this)
3) "Fixing" of the Catalyst's broken logic 
4) Expansion of breath scene

While this doesn't cover everything, I don't see too many people that would be upset with these changes. May not satisfy anyone, but it would be a hell of a lot better than nothing. 

1) I myself have asked this but it's been suggested the engine's to blame here. See, I was asking for assets in actual gameplay not just .bik movies.

2) Too late for that.

3) Yes, they certainly could have done better.

4) The breath scene's pretty clear to me but I would've preferred an ending a-la-ME1.

[Dean_the_Young]

ld1449 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...



I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here. Then I calmed
down. Then some coffee. Then I played some more of the upcoming DLC. Now
I'm replying.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the
feedback you give us matters. I cannot discuss the upcoming DLC yet, but
I think people will see that we listened to feedback and, hopefully,
you will see that reflected in the product.

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the
endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying
it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give
feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you
enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

To
say "they're not giving us new endings, they aren't listening" (or
whatever) is not true. You assumed that, despite us repeatedly saying we
would not change the ending, that we would change the ending. We are
listening, but we said almost 9 months ago that the endings would not
change, you ignored this. You also assume that the only feedback we had
was about the ending of the game.

As I said, hopefully you will
see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait
for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be
talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but
it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

You know this might very well be the last statement I ever put on these boards all things considered. At this stage in the game I have very little reason to return or ever even look back into this place so let me just go ahead and respond to at least this statement that I take issue with.

Lets go point by point.

I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here.

First off, whoop dee do- I'll start to care about your anger about as much as you ever cared for anyone elses after they beat your hack job of a product 9 months ago.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the
feedback you give us matters.

We'll be discussing the merits of this particular piece shortly.

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the
endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying
it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give
feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you
enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

First off, yes you did, hoo-ray. Its about the only thing throughout this song and dance that you've said with any merit too it. Which is sad considering that not even your pre release statements hold much merit. The one thing most, or at least half of your fanbase didn't want to hear, you've delivered on magnificently. The one statement that required absolutely no effort and no work from you.

Here's an award. Would you like it delivered on a red, blue or green pillow.

 You also assume that the only feedback we had
was about the ending of the game.

Who in the hell do you think you're kidding?

Nothing about this game has ever been able to escape the shadow of the ending.

Two of your three SP DLC's so far have revolved around the ending. What exactly were your other major concerns post release? Dinosaur DLC? Omega that is well known to have been fairly developed during the games innitial development already?

You have nearly every major review site, even your most rabid backers IGN basically saying that all DLC is largely moot, pointless, bland or otherwise irrelevant when taken into account with the endings.

This game is remembered solely for the mental abortion that was and still is its ending. You put flowers on a rotting corpse. Plastic flowers that can't even try to cover up the smell.

Feel proud. This is your accomplishment after a decade of work.


As I said, hopefully you will
see the new DLC  does take feedback into consideration.

What? It took you nine months to lay off the calibration jokes? Or to pull back on the auto dialogue?

You've cherry picked what is easiest to implement into a plan that you've refused to alter outside the bare minimum. One interview with Drew basically just flat out admitted that you people don't alter anything that's on the DLC drawing board unless its easy to do so.

In other words. We value your feedback, when its convenient for us to do so. When its convenient Not when there's demand. Oh no. Not when 98% of the people that have bought this game are clamoring for nearly a complete rewrite ohhhh no. That would just be inconvenient.

Can't satisfy everybody right?

Do the bare minimum. The plastic flowers over the corpse.

People can put their stock of something being taken into account for maybe the next game. Again, only if its convenient.

But with your boss, Casey so far at least, still being on board I don't really put much stock into his competence, your truthfulness or this company's integrity.

I'll see myself out.

Way to get the last word, man!

I wasn't convinced by the hyperbole, misaimed righteous indignation, and outright made up facts, but going through the touble of such a drawn-out last last reply before leaving for good, really? That will show them!

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 12 février 2013 - 12:47 .

[PainCakesx]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Additionally, I don't know what kind of new audience they hope to bring in if the ending of ME3 is the norm they wish to use in future ME games. ME became popular because of its good writing, likeable characters, solid gameplay and immersiveness. I don't see any audience that would be happy with chucking any of these elements out the window, unless they really are going for the oversaturated brainless FPS / TPS market.

I'd dispute the good writing bit, as ME1 ranged from inspired to mediocre even without the gameplay and ME2 was a mess of a trilogy mid-quel, and would argue that the ME universe never built its fanbase on its ending in the first place so why it would need to in the future isn't quite clear except as a selective data point.

I've also a hard time seeing a credible claim that ME3 as a whole threw out those elements any more than the others, and particularly why it would merit being compared to the 'brainless' FPS/TPS market. Surely with core arcs such as Rannoch and Tuchanka, it should at least be in the 'brain-using' segment?

Well, that's certainly your opinion and you're welcome to it. But most here seem to agree that the writing and story was generally compelling up until the end of ME3 (though some didn't like the story in ME3 either).

I didn't say ME3 threw those out, simply that if any future ME game did that it would be a tough sell to most markets. 

[Clayless]

ld1449 wrote...

You know this might very well be the last statement I ever put on these boards all things considered. At this stage in the game I have very little reason to return or ever even look back into this place so let me just go ahead and respond to at least this statement that I take issue with.

I'll see myself out.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Dean_the_Young]

PainCakesx wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Additionally, I don't know what kind of new audience they hope to bring in if the ending of ME3 is the norm they wish to use in future ME games. ME became popular because of its good writing, likeable characters, solid gameplay and immersiveness. I don't see any audience that would be happy with chucking any of these elements out the window, unless they really are going for the oversaturated brainless FPS / TPS market.

I'd dispute the good writing bit, as ME1 ranged from inspired to mediocre even without the gameplay and ME2 was a mess of a trilogy mid-quel, and would argue that the ME universe never built its fanbase on its ending in the first place so why it would need to in the future isn't quite clear except as a selective data point.

I've also a hard time seeing a credible claim that ME3 as a whole threw out those elements any more than the others, and particularly why it would merit being compared to the 'brainless' FPS/TPS market. Surely with core arcs such as Rannoch and Tuchanka, it should at least be in the 'brain-using' segment?

Well, that's certainly your opinion and you're welcome to it. But most here seem to agree that the writing and story was generally compelling up until the end of ME3 (though some didn't like the story in ME3 either).

I'd agree, and that would be my point: like it's always been, Bioware writing is mostly good except in the places it isn't. In ME3, the place it isn't happens to be the end: in ME2 there used to be much thrashing of teeth about the beginning (and having the go with Cerberus), in ME1 it could be claimed about the characters (boring/racist/codex on legs, minimal development and primarily backstory exposition).

I'd say ME3 is pretty typical for the quality of the series overall. It didn't pull off a good conclusive end for the series... but then, none of the other games even attempted such. They didn't even set up such an ending either: their flaws are simply less noticed and more visible afterwards.

I didn't say ME3 threw those out, simply that if any future ME game did that it would be a tough sell to most markets.

Is there any reason to believe they would, if ME3 didn't?

[PainCakesx]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

Additionally, I don't know what kind of new audience they hope to bring in if the ending of ME3 is the norm they wish to use in future ME games. ME became popular because of its good writing, likeable characters, solid gameplay and immersiveness. I don't see any audience that would be happy with chucking any of these elements out the window, unless they really are going for the oversaturated brainless FPS / TPS market.

I'd dispute the good writing bit, as ME1 ranged from inspired to mediocre even without the gameplay and ME2 was a mess of a trilogy mid-quel, and would argue that the ME universe never built its fanbase on its ending in the first place so why it would need to in the future isn't quite clear except as a selective data point.

I've also a hard time seeing a credible claim that ME3 as a whole threw out those elements any more than the others, and particularly why it would merit being compared to the 'brainless' FPS/TPS market. Surely with core arcs such as Rannoch and Tuchanka, it should at least be in the 'brain-using' segment?

Well, that's certainly your opinion and you're welcome to it. But most here seem to agree that the writing and story was generally compelling up until the end of ME3 (though some didn't like the story in ME3 either).

I'd agree, and that would be my point: like it's always been, Bioware writing is mostly good except in the places it isn't. In ME3, the place it isn't happens to be the end: in ME2 there used to be much thrashing of teeth about the beginning (and having the go with Cerberus), in ME1 it could be claimed about the characters (boring/racist/codex on legs, minimal development and primarily backstory exposition).

I'd say ME3 is pretty typical for the quality of the series overall. It didn't pull off a good conclusive end for the series... but then, none of the other games even attempted such. They didn't even set up such an ending either: their flaws are simply less noticed and more visible afterwards.

I didn't say ME3 threw those out, simply that if any future ME game did that it would be a tough sell to most markets.

Is there any reason to believe they would, if ME3 didn't?

The *ending* did. I meant that the entire game of ME3 didn't. I actually loved ME3 until Priority: Earth. 

And yes, the ending threw out the "good writing." The ending of ME1 and ME2 were satisfying. They had a feeling of victory, accomplishment. ME3's wasn't.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 12:59 .

[Meltemph]

I'd argue while story cohesion between sequels was never important, setting cohesion was, and each time the MEU took a hit there was less "forgiveness" of each particular point where enough people had problems with a part in the story. I think ME3's ending was just the straw that broke the camels back in terms of story elements in the game, that gave the feel that the setting wasnt near as important as "telling their story".

Modifié par Meltemph, 12 février 2013 - 01:01 .