324 réponses à ce sujet

[Sharn01]

Stop buying ME3 related DLC and other goodies if your not happy with the game, otherwise vent all you want but stop demanding things.

Do what I did and stuff the game some place where you wont even accidentally see it and write off Mass Effect. Maybe they will fix things and I will buy their products, but so far they haven't. The only way to truly make a difference for all the people who are unhappy with the ending is to stop throwing money at everything ME related.

[Jadebaby]

Here comes the buzzkill parade...

[FlamingBoy]

A forum post does not make a statement on whenever some one is going to do something or not .


I want to see it on record for people to easily find, for example on a media website that is highly quoted by everyone (granted bioware tends to do the opposite either way, at least they can get called out on it).

[FlamingBoy]

nrobbiec wrote...

I kind of feel like the devil's advocate here but I really like the EC ending and I wouldn't want them to tamper with the ending because I'm committed to my headcanon. I'm honestly not sure why people can't accept it, I mean I can understand wanting closure and all but some of the complaints I've read are just...

Each to their own I guess, I'm looking forward to the next DLC.

a devils advocate is supporting something you do not agree with, hence presenting the argument you do not agree with for arguments sake.

[dreamgazer]

Jadebaby wrote...

Here comes the buzzkill parade...

(laughs)

As if there aren't several ways that the killing of buzz occurs in these threads.

[Morty Smith]

Chris Priestly wrote...

A couple of points:
1 - We have said that the DLC does not change the ending of the game. That would apply to changing movies involved in the ending.

Saves me the ticket for the hype-train. (again)

[PainCakesx]

Sharn01 wrote...

Stop buying ME3 related DLC and other goodies if your not happy with the game, otherwise vent all you want but stop demanding things.

Do what I did and stuff the game some place where you wont even accidentally see it and write off Mass Effect. Maybe they will fix things and I will buy their products, but so far they haven't. The only way to truly make a difference for all the people who are unhappy with the ending is to stop throwing money at everything ME related.

I haven't purchased a single ME3 DLC. 

And I'm not demanding anything. It's not like I have a gun to their head and giving orders - they can do whatever the hell they want. That doesn't mean I, nor any other paying customer, can't give their views and feedback on the product they purchased. 

If I go to a restaurant and recieve terrible food / service, you can bet I'm going to have a chat with the manager. If I buy a product I don't like or doesn't work the way I wanted it to, I'll return it and maybe write a negative review (depending on how bad it is). I want to like ME and BioWare as a developer studio, that's why I'm taking the time to voice my concerns. This is more than I'd do with most companies / products, which I'd just toss away and not look back. ME deserves better than that. 

The fact that people are this passionate should be a good thing to BioWare, but they take it as people hating on them (or so it seems). That may be the case for some, but most, myself included, are simply frustrated fans who want to love the game again. 

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 06:17 .

[in it for the lolz]

Chris Priestly wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

It seems at this point that "your feedback matters" is simply a PR statement and not much more. It takes only 3 minutes on the internet to know what most people want to see - the fact that over the course of a year very little of it has come to fruition says it all.

LMAO  sooo true:lol:

I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here. Then I calmed down. Then some coffee. Then I played some more of the upcoming DLC. Now I'm replying.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the feedback you give us matters. I cannot discuss the upcoming DLC yet, but I think people will see that we listened to feedback and, hopefully, you will see that reflected in the product.

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

To say "they're not giving us new endings, they aren't listening" (or whatever) is not true. You assumed that, despite us repeatedly saying we would not change the ending, that we would change the ending. We are listening, but we said almost 9 months ago that the endings would not change, you ignored this. You also assume that the only feedback we had was about the ending of the game.

As I said, hopefully you will see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

*At bolded part* sure Bioware does.....
..... Just look at TOR.

[Biotic Sage]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here. Then I calmed down. Then some coffee. Then I played some more of the upcoming DLC. Now I'm replying.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the feedback you give us matters. I cannot discuss the upcoming DLC yet, but I think people will see that we listened to feedback and, hopefully, you will see that reflected in the product.

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

To say "they're not giving us new endings, they aren't listening" (or whatever) is not true. You assumed that, despite us repeatedly saying we would not change the ending, that we would change the ending. We are listening, but we said almost 9 months ago that the endings would not change, you ignored this. You also assume that the only feedback we had was about the ending of the game.

As I said, hopefully you will see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

Chris you may be evil, but just know that this fan understands how much Bioware cares about the integrity of their games and that you guys listen to and genuinely consider (probably way too much) feedback.  It's because of how much you guys care about the integrity of your games and storytelling that you have an authorial passion and pride that prevents you from "changing the endings" as so many people seem to want you to do.  Hopefully they will accept that this one wasn't their cup of tea and give your future titles a chance; I have yet to play a Bioware game that didn't feel like it had a great deal of developer passion poored into it, whether I liked or disliked it, and until I do I'll always buy your games.  Even though I don't like MMOs, I still tried The Old Republic (when it went free to play, even spent 10 bucks you wouldn't have gotten otherwise haha); it's not my cup of tea, and I would have vastly preferred KOTOR 3, but I could tell how much work and passion went into creating the game.  Even though DA2 was rushed in my opinion, I felt like the writers, gameplay designers, etc. were very committed to creating a great experience for the gamers.  And if it makes you feel any better, not all of us out there hate the ME3 ending (obviously I'm one of them), and some people hate it for different reasons than others.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 12 février 2013 - 06:19 .

[DravenShep]

Chris, I just wanna say that I completely understood the endings even from before the Extended Cut, and I don't think they should be changed what-so-ever. The only real complaint that I ever had was about Tali's face reveal. Other than that, you guys at Bioware made one hell of a Trilogy that'll stay in our minds and hearts forever. Just know the fact that once the DLC drops, both SP and MP, I'll have it purchased and downloaded.

I would rather wait for the DLC so it can be the best you can put out there, but please, don't stop the MP DLC.

I look forward to Mass Effect 4 and beyond to Dark Space.

[Biotic Sage]

DravenShep wrote...

Chris, I just wanna say that I completely understood the endings even from before the Extended Cut, and I don't think they should be changed what-so-ever. The only real complaint that I ever had was about Tali's face reveal. Other than that, you guys at Bioware made one hell of a Trilogy that'll stay in our minds and hearts forever. Just know the fact that once the DLC drops, both SP and MP, I'll have it purchased and downloaded.

I would rather wait for the DLC so it can be the best you can put out there, but please, don't stop the MP DLC.

I look forward to Mass Effect 4 and beyond to Dark Space.

Haha Tali's "face reveal" was sooo bad.  I was quite disgusted by how Bioware chose to handle that even though I never romance Tali myself.  It must really suck to be a Tali fan.  In the grand scheme of things though, certainly forgivable...but just...why???

[Ghaleon]

Bioware really does listen to feedback everyone.

just that feedback is from the suck ups who heap praise on them for anything they do and buy anything they release.

[Slashice]

Btw I don't want to sound like a troll or anything... but if you do listen to the fans (and it seems you really do listen), then who the hell told you that the vastly increased number of auto-dialogues and the removal of the neutral option from the conversation wheel was a good idea? I'd like to have a chat with him/her...

[chidingewe8036]

The reveal trailer will determine this franchise's fate, disagree if wish but it is inevitable, this is their last chance to fix the most F ed up part of the game. I would be willing to guess, bet, whatever, that their are more people that hope for more ending related content than not, those who don't fine, great, I hope you enjoy ME4 or whatever they decide to call it because whatever they plan on developing beyond that will be cancelled because of the next game's mediocre sales due to a lot of ME3's disgruntled fanbase.

[CR121691]

chidingewe8036 wrote...

The reveal trailer will determine this franchise's fate, disagree if wish but it is inevitable, this is their last chance to fix the most F ed up part of the game. I would be willing to guess, bet, whatever, that their are more people that hope for more ending related content than not, those who don't fine, great, I hope you enjoy ME4 or whatever they decide to call it because whatever they plan on developing beyond that will be cancelled because of the next game's mediocre sales due to a lot of ME3's disgruntled fanbase.

I still want your crystal ball.

[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

Sharn01 wrote...

Stop buying ME3 related DLC and other goodies if your not happy with the game, otherwise vent all you want but stop demanding things.

Do what I did and stuff the game some place where you wont even accidentally see it and write off Mass Effect. Maybe they will fix things and I will buy their products, but so far they haven't. The only way to truly make a difference for all the people who are unhappy with the ending is to stop throwing money at everything ME related.

But...the Multiplayar

[Xellith]

Seems to me that Bioware has a "Its our way or the Highway" mentality. Shame to see that "our way" involves cutting corners, not delivering on promises and living off hype.

Chris Priestly wrote...

As I said, hopefully you will see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

If it doesnt change the ending.. then I have no reason to buy it do I? I mean the choices in the DLC will not in any way, shape or form change/affect the ending. My choices are meaningless and the content it just filler content. Big whoop dee doo.

I always bought DLC because I had hopes that my choices would be reflected in future games. If you cant deliver that then you have nothing I consider worth purchasing. I dont play for the "pew pew" or that I can converse with crew (if you can even call it that in ME3. ME3 is very lazy with the "zaeed dialogue"). I play to have my choices matter. If I do something in a DLC, I expect to see that choice reflected.  ME3 did this for a lot of ME2 DLC (although extremely poorly).

I mean if I can just watch it on youtube (and it has no effect on ANYTHING else) then it just saves me buying it doenst it?  I mean I can just watch it, pretend I played it, and then carry on with my campaign.

/sigh

ME1 content affected ME2.  ME1 and 2 content affected ME3.  ME3 content... pointless to  buy.

(At least in my opinion)

Modifié par Xellith, 12 février 2013 - 10:28 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Xellith wrote...

If it doesnt change the ending.. then I have no reason to buy it do I? I mean the choices in the DLC will not in any way, shape or form change/affect the ending. My choices are meaningless and the content it just filler content. Big whoop dee doo.

That's a pretty uncommon standard of 'meaning.' Why should Bioware design around it?

I always bought DLC because I had hopes that my choices would be reflected in future games. If you cant deliver that then you have nothing I consider worth purchasing. I dont play for the "pew pew" or that I can converse with crew (if you can even call it that in ME3. ME3 is very lazy with the "zaeed dialogue"). I play to have my choices matter. If I do something in a DLC, I expect to see that choice reflected.  ME3 did this for a lot of ME2 DLC (although extremely poorly).

That's certainly a personal standard, I suppose, but it's also a counter-intuitive one. DLC, by it's nature, is non-critical path. The games, and endings, will proceed without it. Expecting a DLC to have a major narrative effect on the ending is like expecting a character who can die to be a major story driver after the potential death: at most you can expect a superficial role.

I mean if I can just watch it on youtube.  And it has no effect on ANYTHING else.  Then it just saves me buying it doenst it?  I mean I can just watch it, pretend I played it and then carry on with my campaign.

/sigh

You could watch it on youtube even if it did have epic ending consequences. Outside of the game itself, DLC (and video games) also have no effect on anything else, no matter how good the game experience.

You have pretty skewed standards for luxury goods.

[Vic7im]

Little OT, but I'm puzzled.

They said they won't be adding endings which is fine.

But, correct if I'm wrong, did they say that they won't be expanding the actual endings we've got?

[Dean_the_Young]

PainCakesx wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The RPGenius wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...To say "they're not giving us new endings, they aren't listening" (or whatever) is not true.

But you aren't giving us new endings, and since the ending is the single largest aspect of the game that we give give the most feedback about, you aren't listening.  I don't know whether you're forced to just keep feeding us one PR-approved line of BS you don't actually believe in after another, or if you're just honestly playing make-believe with the way human logic works, but just because you say something isn't true, that doesn't mean God's going to rearrange the way reality works to back you up.  Bioware is not listening.

Me thinks you need to re-look at what the definition of 'listening' is.

Hint: it isn't 'agree' or 'do what you hear.'

No, it isn't.

Yes, technically BioWare would be addressing fan feedback if they make it "Story related", include "ME2 characters" or contain more "LI content."

Or released a DLC that addressed many (though far from all, given mutually contradictory requests) fan complaints of the endings. Or if they experimented to try and add more exploration mechanics into a DLC that filled in Reaper backstory DLC, filling a long-standing request for a return of exploration. Or if they didn't experiment with more frequent dialogue and conversation styles, and a non-direct Consequences mechanic, in the Omega DLC, which addressed an existing plot thread and gave Aria some exposure.

So, technically, arguments that Bioware doesn't address fan feedback don't seem well supported by the recent past. It would technically be more accurate for those people to say 'Bioware didn't address my feedback in the way I wanted.'

But all of that ignores the elephant in the room - the one issue that for many overshadows the other requests and feedback. Story related DLC with ME2 characters and LI content would be awesome, if it weren't for the ending. So while they would be technically addressing fan feedback, they'd be ignoring the feedback that many / most find *most* important.

There is no one issue that overshadows the rest: the ending was never about one element in particular, but rather a variety of things. Many of those were addressed and resolved by the EC: the change the forums went before and after the EC strongly suggests that any claims of 'most people' is outdated.

When you start to break down the remaining complaints, the remaining solidarity over the ending breaks down as the different personal priorities emerge, and the reasons why Bioware wouldn't address those is sometimes simple to recognize. The Catalyst may be hated by some, but it remains the exposition device the writers wish to explain the Reaper motivations and set out the Big Choices. Shepard's breath scene in high-EMS Destroy is ambiguous by design: YMMV, but it was a deliberate decision and not one they see as a mistake. Etc.

There are some complaints they'll consider as opportunity costs for other things: the Normandy evac scene, for example, is going to get grief, but it was the best way they found to give the final goodbyes and explain how the companions got back to the Normandy without dipping into IT territory. People who complain about the infinite clips of the final pistol are going to be eternally displeased, but they could simply judge that running out of ammo (and thus possibly dooming the galaxy for lack of means to trigger your last potential option) isn't an acceptable compromise.

Different people are always going to have different complaints over the ending. Despite some claims to the contrary, that's not going to change even if Bioware decided to embrace <insert pet theory of choice here>. The continued existence of complaints over the ending, however, does not mean Bioware did not listen to the fans, or did not work to address fan complaints.

[davishepard]

Vic7im wrote...

Little OT, but I'm puzzled.

They said they won't be adding endings which is fine.

But, correct if I'm wrong, did they say that they won't be expanding the actual endings we've got?

Yes, too many times. In this very thread, even.

Chris Priestly wrote...

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings. 

[TSA_383]

Chris Priestly wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

It seems at this point that "your feedback matters" is simply a PR statement and not much more. It takes only 3 minutes on the internet to know what most people want to see - the fact that over the course of a year very little of it has come to fruition says it all.

LMAO  sooo true:lol:

I actually got a little angry at the assumptions here. Then I calmed down. Then some coffee. Then I played some more of the upcoming DLC. Now I'm replying.

We absolutely do listen to feedback and the feedback you give us matters. I cannot discuss the upcoming DLC yet, but I think people will see that we listened to feedback and, hopefully, you will see that reflected in the product.

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings.

To say "they're not giving us new endings, they aren't listening" (or whatever) is not true. You assumed that, despite us repeatedly saying we would not change the ending, that we would change the ending. We are listening, but we said almost 9 months ago that the endings would not change, you ignored this. You also assume that the only feedback we had was about the ending of the game.

As I said, hopefully you will see the new DLC (whether you buy it immediately, wait for reviews, wait for YouTube, etc) does take feedback into consideration. We will be talking more about the DLC before it comes out (hopefully next week, but it is still TBD) and you'll like what you see and get it.

You say you're listening, just not to the single biggest issue that the game has?

If someone sells me a car that doesn't run, I'm not going to be super-impressed if they fit some pedals and new cup-holders. That person can say that they've listened to my feedback all they like, but if they haven't actually done anything about the original problem then they're full of ****.

[Leonia]

Or maybe it's not a problem, from Bioware's point-of-view.

[Linkforlife]

davishepard wrote...

Vic7im wrote...

Little OT, but I'm puzzled.

They said they won't be adding endings which is fine.

But, correct if I'm wrong, did they say that they won't be expanding the actual endings we've got?

Yes, too many times. In this very thread, even.

Chris Priestly wrote...

HOWEVER

We said that with the release of the Extended Cut, we were done with the endings of Mass Effect 3. We stated this very clearly and kept saying it multiple times. If you chose to ignore this and continued to give feedback about the ending, that was absolutely your right. I hope you enjoyed yourself, but we said we were done with the endings. 

Remember, Bethesda said the same sort of thing about Fallout 3's ending prior to Broken Steel ...

[DextroDNA]

Chris Priestly wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

PainCakesx wrote...

It seems at this point that "your feedback matters" is simply a PR statement and not much more. It takes only 3 minutes on the internet to know what most people want to see - the fact that over the course of a year very little of it has come to fruition says it all.

LMAO  sooo true:lol:

-snip-

Can you at least tell us WHY you won't change the ending? You know the fans hated the original endings and you know they weren't satisified with the Extended Cut. A tonne of feedback that you received prior to the EC wasn't actually taken into consideration for the EC. Most people didn't want an "expanded" ending, they wanted a retcon. You've retconned things before that didn't need retconning, why couldn't you retcon the ending?

Is Bioware really that stubborn that they won't give their long time fans what they're begging for? They've lost a lot of customers and fans because they won't change the ending, and it really annoys me that they won't at least give us a reason why. You can say that it's what the devs want and it's their game, but at the end of the day - we're the ones paying for it, we're the ones it was made for. So who cares if the devs like their own ending (they would) - we, the customers, don't; so surely that should mean you should change it?

So confused and angry now.