324 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

If Bioware really thinks the ending is so great, and there are no plans to address it, why won't they speak on it? Gamble, Hudson, Walters etc have refused to confirm no future ending content, and Hudson and Walters have been essentially silent about everything. If it's so amazing then defend it.

According to some, we shouldn't be critical of a company that's gotten hundreds of or dollars because their feelings will get hurt.

[Linkforlife]

Master Che wrote...

NatP wrote...

So, if they aren't going to change the ending, what ARE they going to do in the next DLC?

Well...

Let's take a minute to think about some of the things people here still talk about (now I brainstorm):

1) Not seeing Tali's face in game
2) Not having enough quality time with your LI (...and Valentine's day is around the corner...hmmm)
3) Not seeing your war assets in use NOTE: Where we would expect to see them is between Cronos station and priority: Earth

4) COLLECTORS!
5) HAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBBBBIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNGEEEEEEEEEER!
6) The Trial
7) More Hub worlds
8) More Citadel areas
9) A bar you don't use (ME2)
10) More Protheans

what else?

The fact that the game is still plagued by glitches that were there at launch?

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

iakus wrote...

Has any other complaint even come close to the backlash the endings caused, though?  Yeah I know there are others out there (I have a few non-ending gripes myself) but it's the endings that have crippled the reputation of Mass Effect and gave Bioware itself a nasty black eye rep-wise.  To be so casually dismissive of such "feedback" really makes you wonder what is being listened to...

Well, by the looks of it with Seth Green and Kaidan, there's squadmate dialogue.

We know very little about the DLC but even from the stuff we do know it shows they're listening. I don't understand how you can just dismiss that.

Probably the same way it's dismissed that the endings are so bad they literally kill the enjoyment of the entire game for many people.  So rbinging back Seth Green really doesn't help them, now does it?

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Well, by the looks of it with Seth Green and Kaidan, there's squadmate dialogue.

We know very little about the DLC but even from the stuff we do know it shows they're listening. I don't understand how you can just dismiss that.

Probably the same way it's dismissed that the endings are so bad they literally kill the enjoyment of the entire game for many people.  So rbinging back Seth Green really doesn't help them, now does it?

That doesn't make sense. You're saying they're not listening, despite the fact they clearly are, because they're not listening to what you want exactly?

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Well, by the looks of it with Seth Green and Kaidan, there's squadmate dialogue.

We know very little about the DLC but even from the stuff we do know it shows they're listening. I don't understand how you can just dismiss that.

Probably the same way it's dismissed that the endings are so bad they literally kill the enjoyment of the entire game for many people.  So rbinging back Seth Green really doesn't help them, now does it?

That doesn't make sense. You're saying they're not listening, despite the fact they clearly are, because they're not listening to what you want exactly?

Not just me.  Many, many others who simply can't work up the desire to play the game, thanks to the endings.  They're only listening to people who like the endings, in other words

[spotlessvoid]

When there is an overwhelming negative response, a good business will react as best they can to customer dissatisfaction by either explaining their motives or changing course.

When there is an overwhelming negative response, a good artist will respond to constructive criticism by either explaining their work or admitting fault.

Bioware has done none of this. No explanation. No fix. Just "give us more monies"

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...

Has any other complaint even come close to the backlash the endings caused, though?  Yeah I know there are others out there (I have a few non-ending gripes myself) but it's the endings that have crippled the reputation of Mass Effect and gave Bioware itself a nasty black eye rep-wise.  To be so casually dismissive of such "feedback" really makes you wonder what is being listened to...

They spent a few months crafting a free DLC that changed what they believed to be legitimate gripes about the ending, while keeping intact the general structure of Priority Earth and the endings because they didn't have the time or money to completely redo it. What is it about spending months on the Extended Cut that is casually dismissive?

The convenience of claiming they don't care is that it preserves your opinion that if they did care, they'd see everything your way and change things accordingly. People may have to come to terms with the fact that when it comes to things like the ambiguity of the breath scene, they simply see things differently. They disagree with you about the nature of the scene and the value it holds. This is evident in the fact that they did the EC but left the breath scene unchanged.

Therefore, since it's no longer a matter of "not listening" but rather "not agreeing" then the conversation should be limited to "this is why the breath scene doesn't work" instead of "if they don't change the breath scene they don't care or don't listen."

I don't think you truly want a game that caters to your preferences and nothing else. Part of the deal with playing in someone else's world is that sometimes things will happen that you don't like, the upside being that sometimes things happen that you do like and didn't expect. The game itself needs to preserve some sense of autonomy in order for it to be a story at all. Otherwise, we just have fan fiction. We have MEHEM. And of course, if what you really care about is getting things your way, and not the ability to play within a fictional universe, then it shouldn't bother you that MEHEM is unofficial.

[Iakus]

spotlessvoid wrote...

When there is an overwhelming negative response, a good business will react as best they can to customer dissatisfaction by either explaining their motives or changing course.

When there is an overwhelming negative response, a good artist will respond to constructive criticism by either explaining their work or admitting fault.

Bioware has done none of this. No explanation. No fix. Just "give us more monies"

Just so

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

That doesn't make sense. You're saying they're not listening, despite the fact they clearly are, because they're not listening to what you want exactly?

Not just me.  Many, many others who simply can't work up the desire to play the game, thanks to the endings.  They're only listening to people who like the endings, in other words

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

[Linkforlife]

spotlessvoid wrote...

When there is an overwhelming negative response, a good business will react as best they can to customer dissatisfaction by either explaining their motives or changing course.

When there is an overwhelming negative response, a good artist will respond to constructive criticism by either explaining their work or admitting fault.

Bioware has done none of this. No explanation. No fix. Just "give us more monies"

I like this human, he understands!

[Almostfaceman]

Robosexual wrote...

iakus wrote...

Has any other complaint even come close to the backlash the endings caused, though?  Yeah I know there are others out there (I have a few non-ending gripes myself) but it's the endings that have crippled the reputation of Mass Effect and gave Bioware itself a nasty black eye rep-wise.  To be so casually dismissive of such "feedback" really makes you wonder what is being listened to...

Well, by the looks of it with Seth Green and Kaidan, there's squadmate dialogue.

We know very little about the DLC but even from the stuff we do know it shows they're listening. I don't understand how you can just dismiss that.

I'll give you an analogy. I walk into a car dealership with a car I just bought from them. The headlights don't work. I ask them to fix it under the warranty. It comes back, and they've given it an oil change and rotated the tires. So, they heard there was a problem, they just didn't fix the actual problem. 

That's how we can dismiss that.

[spotlessvoid]

The extended cut was a short monologue plus a crappy slide show providing almost zero context. "Zaeed is chillaxing" "Jacob still exists" etc

According to several articles, the monologues were already recorded. Only a tiny bit of cutscene content was added, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of it was existing content that was cut. Regardless, assuming it was all created from scratch post launch, it's ridiculously little content and changes nothing about the ending. It's a pacifier, a shiny bell to jingle in front of fans. If that took months than Bioware is ****ing stupid

[spotlessvoid]

Robosexual wrote...

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

That doesn't make sense. You're saying they're not listening, despite the fact they clearly are, because they're not listening to what you want exactly?

Not just me.  Many, many others who simply can't work up the desire to play the game, thanks to the endings.  They're only listening to people who like the endings, in other words

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

so only happy fans are fans? ok buddy

[PainCakesx]

If BioWare would come out and actually defend their ending and respond (and by respond I don't mean canned statements) to the still prevalent dissatisfaction with the endings, that would be a huge step in the right direction.

They're entitled to thinking their ending is great, as much as I disagree with it, but to not only ignore the valid criticisms but even outright dismiss it is troublesome. Art is not immune to criticism - plenty of famous artists have recieved harsh criticisms for their work. If the goal of your art is solely for self enjoyment and nothing more, then what others think doesn't matter. When your goal is to make a profit, what your customers think absolutely matters.

This is why it annoys the hell out of me when people tell me that I or others are acting "entitled" when we want the endings corrected. If BioWare handed me a copy of ME3 out of good will for free, then I would be. But I paid for the game, and I have every right to voice my disapproval.

I've retracted my statement about BioWare ignoring all fan feedback - that wasn't fair. But they're ignoring unarguably the most prevalent and most given feedback of all. So while they may be addressing *some* fan feedback, for many it's the equivalent of a car company advertising a new and improved AC unit while the car still regularly leaves you stranded. Sure, it's all well and good that the AC unit is fixed, but it doesn't mean anything if the damn car doesn't run properly.

I understand that some here like the endings, but to outright ignore an undeniably large percentage of the fanbase is what many take issue with. It's not even about not fixing the endings at this point, it's their decision to straight up ignore the issue altogether.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 07:58 .

[Clayless]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Well, by the looks of it with Seth Green and Kaidan, there's squadmate dialogue.

We know very little about the DLC but even from the stuff we do know it shows they're listening. I don't understand how you can just dismiss that.

I'll give you an analogy. I walk into a car dealership with a car I just bought from them. The headlights don't work. I ask them to fix it under the warranty. It comes back, and they've given it an oil change and rotated the tires. So, they heard there was a problem, they just didn't fix the actual problem. 

That's how we can dismiss that.

A more accurate analogy would be if you walk into a car dealership and buy a blue car, then ask them to paint it a different colour because you don't like blue, they offer to extend your warranty for free, and then you complain about them not painting your car a different colour.

The problem is subjective in other words yet you're still demanding they "fix" it.

Modifié par Robosexual, 12 février 2013 - 07:54 .

[MattFini]

spotlessvoid wrote...

According to several articles, the monologues were already recorded.

Really?

I hadn't heard that yet.

If that's true then it makes their decision to roll with the pre-EC ending all the more baffling ... if there WAS more content that could've gone into that abomination and they just decided to cut it...

[PainCakesx]

Robosexual wrote...

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

That doesn't make sense. You're saying they're not listening, despite the fact they clearly are, because they're not listening to what you want exactly?

Not just me.  Many, many others who simply can't work up the desire to play the game, thanks to the endings.  They're only listening to people who like the endings, in other words

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

So because I strongly dislike the ending to ME3 and find it almost ruins the entire game, it means I'm not a fan of the franchise?

If every company had a strategy of ignoring large portions of their existing customer base, most companies would be long out of business. 

[Iakus]

Robosexual wrote...

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

Don't start a "real fan" debate.  Please.

No, I'm saying they're not listening to those who might otherwise be the people who like the same, play it, and would look forward to the next DLC.  The people who would be like those you described, if only their journey didn't end with jumping off a cliff.

[PainCakesx]

Robosexual wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Well, by the looks of it with Seth Green and Kaidan, there's squadmate dialogue.

We know very little about the DLC but even from the stuff we do know it shows they're listening. I don't understand how you can just dismiss that.

I'll give you an analogy. I walk into a car dealership with a car I just bought from them. The headlights don't work. I ask them to fix it under the warranty. It comes back, and they've given it an oil change and rotated the tires. So, they heard there was a problem, they just didn't fix the actual problem. 

That's how we can dismiss that.

A more accurate analogy would be if you walk into a car dealership and buy a blue car, then ask them to paint it a different colour because you don't like blue, they offer to extend your warranty for free, and then you complain about them not painting your car a different colour.

The problem is subjective in other words yet you're still demanding they "fix" it.

Cute attempt at minimizing and dismissing people dissatisfied with the ending, but the problems with the endings are hardly comparable to "I don't like the color."

Modifié par PainCakesx, 12 février 2013 - 07:57 .

[Kabraxal]

Robosexual wrote...

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

That doesn't make sense. You're saying they're not listening, despite the fact they clearly are, because they're not listening to what you want exactly?

Not just me.  Many, many others who simply can't work up the desire to play the game, thanks to the endings.  They're only listening to people who like the endings, in other words

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

Considering more fans were upset and are quite willing to not give Bioware more money upfront anymore... yeah, I'd say not listening to those fans is actually a risky move.  People like me have been Bioware supporters since the beginning, willing to shell out money with no second thoughts.  Now, I hesitate to buy a Bioware product because they've not only stumbled badly, but they are reacting poorly to the whole debacle to the extent they are pissing off more fans with how they are handling this situation.

At least they aren't Blizzard though.... actually treating the fans like children that are just too stupid to understand....... I will never buy another Blizzard product again after that.  Even if they start making good games again.  You do not treat your fanbase like that period.  At least Bioware hasn't done that yet.  They still have a chance to earn back their fans. 

[Dr_Extrem]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

Don't start a "real fan" debate.  Please.

No, I'm saying they're not listening to those who might otherwise be the people who like the same, play it, and would look forward to the next DLC.  The people who would be like those you described, if only their journey didn't end with jumping off a cliff.

so we are no real scotsmen? 

but i like single malt whisky ...

[CronoDragoon]

PainCakesx wrote...
This is why it annoys the hell out of me when people tell me that I or others are acting "entitled" when we want the endings corrected. If BioWare handed me a copy of ME3 out of good will for free, then I would be. But I paid for the game, and I have every right to voice my disapproval.

Paying for the game entitles you to nothing but the opportunity to play it. You have every right to voice your disapproval of it, but that is fundamentally different than expecting the game to be changed because of your disapproval.

[Clayless]

iakus wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

So you're complaining because they're listening to the people who like the game, play it, and who are looking forward to the next DLC? The fans, in other words?

Don't start a "real fan" debate.  Please.

No, I'm saying they're not listening to those who might otherwise be the people who like the same, play it, and would look forward to the next DLC.  The people who would be like those you described, if only their journey didn't end with jumping off a cliff.

With statements like "no desire to play the game" it just seems weird that you want them to make DLC for you and say they're not listening to us on the same breath.

By the looks of it they are listening to us. They're just not listening to the people that have "no desire to play the game".

[spotlessvoid]

I hate the ending. Still paid for every dlc. I've spent hundreds on Mass Effect. It's unlikely I'll be buying more Bioware products if the ending isn't addressed, but I'll finish out the dlc cycle out of quite possibly misplaced hope. Am I then not a fan?

You say they are listening. Well so am I. And I haven't heard a damn peep from them explaining themselves. Why would I care what a community manager says. Where are the developers in all this? CP said no MP, no Leviathan, no Omega, etc etc. I'm supposed to believe him about no future ending content? Come on. If it's true then let Gamble Hudson or Walters say it. Instead they stay silent so people don't give up and stop buying dlc. If there really is nothing coming than it's a year of deception and trolling out of pure greed. For many fans, Bioware has backed themselves into a corner.

[CronoDragoon]

Robosexual wrote...
By the looks of it they are listening to us. They're just not listening to the people that have "no desire to play the game".

I think a more accurate representation of the situation is that they've listened to everyone - those who liked the endings and those who didn't - regarding the endings, and the EC was their answer. At this point it's no longer a case of them not listening, but rather a case of the issue has been decided for them, one way or another. If I claimed "I loved the endings but would like to see THIS" then I'd get the same response as someone who said "I hate the endings and want to see THIS".