40 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I think Anora's allowed to fire the chancellor, and a non-noble is specifically not allowed to be the consort. (Did you mean to say mistress? Because Anora's probably legally entitled to fire her too. And at any rate, Anora's the one in charge, and the mistress has Alistair by the balls.)

As for Wynne, I'm pretty sure the king is entitled to have a private doctor. And I think Meghren had a mage advisor without the Circle objecting. (The Landsmeet objected, but I thought that might have been for other reasons.)

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 14 février 2013 - 02:27 .

[Megami Nekohime]

It specifically states in one of the slides when I married Alistair to Anora that my warden had more influence over politics then the Queen liked but she had little choice. That was given after choosing to remain at court with him.
I can not seem to find a screenie or wikia post of this slide and I don't have the save for it because I reloaded and went with a different ending on that game. I don't even remember for sure which origin it was I got it in but I can't find it anymore. lol

Modifié par Megami Nekohime, 14 février 2013 - 04:03 .

[Addai]

Loghain and Anora are "up-jumped" nobles, which is something that people still look down on them for, though Loghain's hero status and Maric's popularity helped make it stick. Likewise the Warden's hero status is enough to get you a teyrnir, if you ask for it, but Alistair's point is that the Landsmeet is already stretching to accept him as king. They wouldn't accept a commoner bastard *and* a commoner who might also be a mage, as consort and presumably the mother of the future heir (since they don't know you can't have children either- triple threat!).

Expecting the entire political system and ingrained prejudices to change is not realistic. From a writerly standpoint it would make the Warden even more of a Mary Sue than they already are. Even if you have a lot of influence as chancellor, the title still belongs to someone who's regarded as rightful heir. If you overhear the nobles talking before the Landsmeet, they don't like the idea of Alistair being candidate because it's a "bad precedent." Succession is very important and any disruption to it is a matter of life and death.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Well, okay, but the Warden having more influence than Anora likes and it not being politically expedient to ditch said Warden isn't the same as having the Warden having more power than Anora. Anora's still the queen, and it's still hammered out in the initial deal that she's legally in charge.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 février 2013 - 02:38 .

[Megami Nekohime]

That slide made it seem like Alistair was in charge and Anora only had the power to do what was okay with him. I know she asks to lead in political affairs, but that slide makes it seem like that's not the case in that end. If the warden has more influence then Anora would like then it eludes to the fact that more decisions are made that Anora doesn't agree with.

@Addai I can see how prejudices might affect a non-human Queen, but since Alistair is working towards bettering the relationships between the races then a marriage maybe sometime in the future, (like maybe in a few years,) might help to reach that end. It seems like it could be a good thing. I haven't played DA2 yet so I don't know what things are like then or even where it takes place on the timeline. But if I were living in the time just after the defeat of the archdemon, it seems to me like it would be a possibility to consider. After all, everyone in Ferelden knows that Alistair is in love with the warden. You can read him like an open book. All the gazing and doting. He hangs off her like a shiny bauble. I would imagine you wouldn't have to be travelling with them to notice it. Especially since some of your conversations can take place anywhere including crowded establishments.

And since Ferelden loves Alistair as their king and would want to see an heir. I would think that a half mage or elf heir would be better then none. Especially since no heir would lead to civil war and chaos across the land.

[lyriumaddict104]

[quote]Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

[quote]lyriumaddict104 wrote...

Can't mages not have have titles, even if they're noble born? Does that change however when the mage Hero of Ferelden receives his/her boon? [/quote]

Well, that's what I said, I'm suprised too. But there's a large difference between being the teryn (ridiculously prestigious already) and being the queen.
[/quote][/quote]

Yeah, sorry about that. I saw your post up there where you'd mentioned this first. I don't know why I didn't add that in my previous post. You make a good point that there's a huge difference between becoming a teryn and becoming a Queen. The people of Ferelden would probably rather take a mage Warden as a teryn over a mage Warden becoming Queen any day.

[lyriumaddict104]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Can't mages not have have titles, even if they're noble born? Does that change however when the mage Hero of Ferelden receives his/her boon?

I imagine his status as Warden sort of nullifies his status as a Mage.

That makes sense, for why it is allowed to happen. I haven't asked for a title with any of my Wardens yet. I guess neither Anora nor Alistair mention the conflict when they grant the Warden's request?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Megami Nekohime wrote...

That slide made it seem like Alistair was in charge and Anora only had the power to do what was okay with him. I know she asks to lead in political affairs, but that slide makes it seem like that's not the case in that end. If the warden has more influence then Anora would like then it eludes to the fact that more decisions are made that Anora doesn't agree with.

I've never seen that one, but from your description it seems more like Anora was upset about having to share power with the Warden at all. As for why she couldn't simply fire the Warden, I suspect that has less to do with Alistair being in charge and more to do with the Warden's reputation.

@Addai I can see how prejudices might affect a non-human Queen, but since Alistair is working towards bettering the relationships between the races then a marriage maybe sometime in the future, (like maybe in a few years,) might help to reach that end.

You are underestimating the timeline it would take. A lot. And the king in question would need an absolute lock on the throne.

It seems like it could be a good thing. I haven't played DA2 yet so I don't know what things are like then or even where it takes place on the timeline. But if I were living in the time just after the defeat of the archdemon, it seems to me like it would be a possibility to consider. After all, everyone in Ferelden knows that Alistair is in love with the warden. You can read him like an open book. All the gazing and doting. He hangs off her like a shiny bauble. I would imagine you wouldn't have to be travelling with them to notice it. Especially since some of your conversations can take place anywhere including crowded establishments.

I doubt it would occur to them that he actually intends to marry her. The mistress thing might occur to them. Why not? Mistresses were pretty par for the course for the nobility. But marrying an elf or mage? I think I can safely say that wouldn't occur to them.

And since Ferelden loves Alistair as their king and would want to see an heir. I would think that a half mage or elf heir would be better then none. Especially since no heir would lead to civil war and chaos across the land.

A half-elf heir would not be. He/she would be ignored completely. A half-mage heir would probably be able to get some support, if and only if the mage's kid was not also a mage. The half-mage might even succeed, Hawke's father was an apostate after all. But a mage? I guess I can't rule it out, what with mage!Hawke being able to get the viscount seat in Kirkwall, but it strikes me as massively unlikely. And of course the precedent Hawke sets means nothing with regards to that half-elf you mentioned.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 février 2013 - 05:34 .

[Megami Nekohime]

lyriumaddict104 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Can't mages not have have titles, even if they're noble born? Does that change however when the mage Hero of Ferelden receives his/her boon?

I imagine his status as Warden sort of nullifies his status as a Mage.

That makes sense, for why it is allowed to happen. I haven't asked for a title with any of my Wardens yet. I guess neither Anora nor Alistair mention the conflict when they grant the Warden's request?

No, neither one of them that I remember mentions any conflict. You ask for it and they bestow it without question. Then immediately after that they give Amaranthine to the wardens.

Modifié par Megami Nekohime, 15 février 2013 - 06:27 .

[Addai]

I have to agree that expecting Ferelden to change that much is over-estimating both Alistair's popularity and the Warden's influence. But, I tend to prefer stories that keep to the gritty side rather than go fairytale. As Riverdaleswhiteflash says, an elf mistress would be controversial but probably accepted if Alistair marries a noble.

My canon Warden is an elf mistress chancellor. Anora makes a good political wife in this case, or I always thought it would be good if you could find a noblewoman who bats for the other team. Then she could have her lover on the side as well, and ideally all three of you would make a good political team. I'd actually write this story up if I was still writing DA fanfiction. 

Modifié par Addai67, 15 février 2013 - 04:13 .

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I was picturing the Warden, Anora, Leiliana, and Erlina teaming up. Too bad I didn't have my Cousland romance Leiliana...

[Megami Nekohime]

Addai67 wrote...

I have to agree that expecting Ferelden to change that much is over-estimating both Alistair's popularity and the Warden's influence. But, I tend to prefer stories that keep to the gritty side rather than go fairytale. As Riverdaleswhiteflash says, an elf mistress would be controversial but probably accepted if Alistair marries a noble.

My canon Warden is an elf mistress chancellor. Anora makes a good political wife in this case, or I always thought it would be good if you could find a noblewoman who bats for the other team. Then she could have her lover on the side as well, and ideally all three of you would make a good political team. I'd actually write this story up if I was still writing DA fanfiction. 

It would be an interesting read. 

[Gamer Ftw]

Because elves, dwarves, and mages can't be on the throne.
Mages can't have titles.
And they wouldn't let a non human rule them.

[Megami Nekohime]

Gamer Ftw wrote...

Because elves, dwarves, and mages can't be on the throne.
Mages can't have titles.
And they wouldn't let a non human rule them.

Wardens don't have titles and they stay out of politics, yet a warden can still sit on it.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

People aren't bigoted against Wardens.

Edit: Also, from what Riordan says about the Anderfels Wardens, certain Wardens really don't stay out of politics.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 20 février 2013 - 03:33 .

[Jeffonl1]

But the basis of the of the Gray Warden sitting on the throne is that he is a Cousland - not as a Warden. I imagine the support of the Bannorn of any warden (even a Cousland) on the throne would be weak; it goes against an apparent long standing tradition.