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[ruggly]

Perhaps one day it will work.  Maybe by the time the next game comes out, everything will be like this.

Modifié par ruggly, 17 février 2013 - 07:57 .

[Hadeedak]

Now, now.... BSN ending brigade is at least 6 angry rats!

[ruggly]

I don't think I have a .gif for that

[Necrotron]

The source was made out for the entire series to not be credible.

It's crazy that the ending is to choose to either trust that source and choose one of his "solutions" or simply let yourself die. It was equally as likely that Shepard would become the next Saren or Illusive Man from that ending, and honestly really suprised me that he did not once I picked my 'forced' decision (because the game wouldn't let me do anything else).

Modifié par Bathaius, 17 février 2013 - 08:44 .

[Auld Wulf]

Bathaius wrote...

The source was made out for the entire series to not be credible.

It's crazy that the ending is to choose to either trust that source and choose one of his "solutions" or simply let yourself die. It was equally as likely that Shepard would become the next Saren or Illusive Man from that ending, and honestly really suprised me that he did not once I picked my 'forced' decision (because the game wouldn't let me do anything else).

It wasn't crazy, it was clever. The best endings are rarely ever the predictable ones. You people need to read more books. Mass Effect was a mature story, and as such it had an ending which befitted that. It wasn't the sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows of the original Blade Runner (something which no moviegoer enjoyed). It was a nuanced, somewhat ambiguous, and extremely clever thing.

The ending is a statement about who you, who you are, your strength of character, and so much more. The Catalyst could have let you die, it could have let the harvest continue, but instead it chose to bring you to it in order to choose a new way. Do you trust it? Or do you just roll over and die? That's the real choice, there. And perhaps one of the more interesting choices of the Mass Effect series.

And instead... what? What are people calling for? Player 1 saves the Universe, defeats The Evil Space Alien Empire, becomes rich, marries the Galactic Princess, and has a bunch of babies? That's the better ending?

I'd have to agree to disagree.

[Indy_S]

I'm going to disagree that it was clever. It was a narrative mess, praising it as a great metaphysical choice when it was clear that this wasn't the intention just comes off as pretentious.

[Reorte]

It was not clever. It was not even remotely clever. It was random, going for mysterious-looking, which I suppose might be mistaken for clever in a bad light by someone not looking very hard. Mass Effect did clever from time to time - the nature of the geth and the whole genophage situation were clever, and it's no coincidence that the parts of ME3 dealing with those were lightyears ahead of the ending even though the geth part faltered a bit in 3.

[o Ventus]

Auld Wulf wrote...

And instead... what? What are people calling for? Player 1 saves the Universe, defeats The Evil Space Alien Empire, becomes rich, marries the Galactic Princess, and has a bunch of babies? That's the better ending?

Yes, actually.

[Jenonax]

Auld Wulf wrote...

It wasn't crazy, it was clever. The best endings are rarely ever the predictable ones. You people need to read more books. Mass Effect was a mature story, and as such it had an ending which befitted that. It wasn't the sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows of the original Blade Runner (something which no moviegoer enjoyed). It was a nuanced, somewhat ambiguous, and extremely clever thing.

I could not disagree with you more.

It was certainly disguised as being clever.  In isolation the choices, the consequences, everything technical about that scene could be descibed as being clever.  Lots of philisophical and socialogical theories going on in there. 

Put it with the rest of the series however which, I'm sorry, was not clever, it falls to pieces.  Mass Effect was never 'clever' not like that, not like the Catalyst scene.  It was a bog standard (very well done) space opera, which did what every sci-fi before it has done, asked questions about the nature of life and the universe in its own way.  

The real trick, the real 'cleverness' would have been to actually pull off a trilogy, a coherent, well construced one where in the end, everything we'd done would lead to the attainment of our goal.  All three chapters would flow together toward the climax, not be fragmented and cancel each other out.

The end as it is now, is in isolation.  Shepard doesn't even get up there by himself, the Catalyst brings him up there.  Nothing we did mattered.  

The unification of the galazy should have led to the distruction of the Reapers.  Be that conventionally (contriversial I know) or by the team we gathered being able to figure out the Reaper's weakness.  Not by the use of a Deus Ex Machina in the Crucible and an info dump at the end.  Those two plot devices are not clever, they are weak and a sign of someone who has lost control over his story, someone who didn't plan ahead.

Properly clever trilogies don't do that, they don't spring a brand new antagonist on its audience in the last ten minutes presenting a choice that is at best pretentious and is at worst lore breaking.  

The solution should have been built upon the main theme of the trilogy, something that ran through all three games which by far was unification.  Strength through diversity, victory through unity.  We disregard that in the end, Shepard acts in isolation and he has never done that.  He was made great through the people he surrounded himself with.  

So no, in context, I don't think it was clever at all.  I think it was jarring and exceptionally pretentious.

[clennon8]

The oft-repeated claim that "the Catalyst could have let you die," as if Starchild helpfully patched Shepard up and saved his life, doesn't wash with me. At all. You can't even claim with any certainty that he raised the platform Shepard was on. Hell, you can't even be sure there was a platform. Everything after the last time Shepard fell unconscious might have happened in his head (mind interface).

As for the ending being clever. Yes, it is. But not at all for the reasons Auld_Wulf thinks it is.

Modifié par clennon8, 18 février 2013 - 02:21 .

[Matthias King]

JMJ_91 wrote...

So in real-life you would rather gamble with the fate of every sentient being rather than put a permanent end to an obvious and senseless threat?

This pretty much sums up what my approach to the ending was.  I tried to look at it as what I would do if I were in that situation if it were real life, and without a doubt, I would choose destroy.  I can't stress enough that Bioware only put forth the caveat that 'Destroy' will also kill EDI and the Geth to try to manipulate the player away from that option, which otherwise was the most obvious, and also the most thematically true to the series.

To the OP, excellent post.  I agree with pretty much everything you've said.  I'll also add that, in a game series that actually started out being pretty grounded and not breaking it's own rules, I found the entire concept and explanation of the 'Synthesis' choice COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTELY ASININE!

Alter the matrix into a new DNA or some such ridiulous nonsense?  Give...Me...A...Freaking...Break.

Even if 'Synthesis' had made at least some sense (which it did not), it still came out of nowhere and doesn't fit thematically.

Anyway, good post OP.  Very well thoughtful and well-said.

[A_Pissed_Iguana]

This Thread put into words EXACTLY how I felt about the ending. Thank you very much!

[Matthias King]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Mass Effect was a mature story, and as such it had an ending which befitted that. It wasn't the sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows

Also I have to add, I really hate it when people characterize people's complaints about the ending this way. It's unfair and inaccurate, though I suspect that the people who make that characterization are fully aware of that.

People who hated the ending and wished for a more fulfilling and gratifying ending that provides not only closure, but a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment have never asked for a super-happy-funtime ending where happy, bombastic John Williams music plays over a parade and medal ceremony and everyone goes and gets frosty chocolate milkshakes.

The only people who put forth crap like that are the people who, for some reason, want to shout down anyone who wasn't satisfied with the endings we got.

Wanting a saccharine-sweet, ultimate happy ending IS NOT the same as wanting a satisfying conclusion based on your choices, your war assests, and most importantly, relevant narrative themes, but I suspect you know that already and just choose to stubburnly ignore it.

[DoomsdayDevice]

The ending was an indoctrination attempt. It was genius.

[clennon8]

Matthias King wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

Mass Effect was a mature story, and as such it had an ending which befitted that. It wasn't the sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows

Also I have to add, I really hate it when people characterize people's complaints about the ending this way. It's unfair and inaccurate, though I suspect that the people who make that characterization are fully aware of that.

Furthermore, the people who select Synthesis could just as easily (if not more so) be characterized as wanting a "sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows" ending.

[ElSuperGecko]

Synthesis is patently a trap. Believing and accepting anything the Reapers tell you leads only to one thing: more Reapers.

It constantly amazes me how less than two minutes of dialogue from the Catalyst (see: the Reapers) - less than TWO MINUTES of vague assurances and platitudes - can convince people to wholeheartedly accept that Synthesis is indeed the "perfect solution".

God forbid we ask them what Synthesis is actually the "perfect solution" to....

[Solaxe]

Another synthesis hate thread that doesn't add anything new. Congratz OP.

Destroyers are the biggest whinners I've seen on these forums.

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Synthesis is patently a trap. Believing and accepting anything the Reapers tell you leads only to one thing: more Reapers.

(...)

God forbid we ask them what Synthesis is actually the "perfect solution" to....

Oh yes, we finally have peace. Those bad Reapers!

Modifié par Solaxe, 18 février 2013 - 03:19 .

[o Ventus]

Solaxe wrote...

Another synthesis hate thread that doesn't add anything new. Congratz OP.

Destroyers are the biggest whinners I've seen on these forums.

Another post complaining about a thread complaining about synthesis that doesn't add anything new. Congratz Solaxe.

Anti-complaining complainers are the biggest whiners I've seen on these forums.

[DKJaigen]

Sometimes you dont need consent. Sometimes you need to drag people kicking and screaming onto the right path. Losing your humanity is not really a problem because humanity is overrated. Starchild has no reason to lie anyway. If you do the refuse ending he shuts down catalyst.

[Auld Wulf]

Solaxe wrote...

Oh yes, we finally have peace. Those bad Reapers!

Yep. We finally have galactic empathy, the cure to any illness, the ability to be whatever we want to be, and a chance at real happiness for everyone. Those reapers are so incredibly evil for providing us with the tools to forge our own way into a better, less troubled future. So evil.

Sigh.

I know what you mean, Solaxe. I empathise. I really do.

@o Ventus

Monkey see, monkey do? That was mature of you.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 18 février 2013 - 03:53 .

[Solaxe]

o Ventus wrote...

Another post complaining about a thread complaining about synthesis that doesn't add anything new. Congratz Solaxe.

Anti-complaining complainers are the biggest whiners I've seen on these forums.

Look how many anti-synthesis threads do we have compared to destroy hate threads. Control and Synthesis fans are mature enough to don't give a damn about other people's choices in a game.

Nice try smartass, maybe next time.

Modifié par Solaxe, 18 février 2013 - 03:49 .

[ElSuperGecko]

Solaxe wrote...
Another synthesis hate thread that doesn't add anything new. Congratz OP.

Destroyers are the biggest whinners I've seen on these forums.

The only whining I'm seeing here is in your post.  Everything I stated is fact.

[BirdsallSa]

ElSuperGecko wrote...

Solaxe wrote...
Another synthesis hate thread that doesn't add anything new. Congratz OP.

Destroyers are the biggest whinners I've seen on these forums.

The only whining I'm seeing here is in your post.  Everything I stated is fact.

He's not whining. he's pointing out the truth. And you're one to talk about facts. The IT cult has no facts, it's just a bunch of conspiracy theory mumbo jumbo. So you self-entitled destroyers can keep on whining, because the tried and true Bioware fans, the synthesizers and the controllers, aren't going away just because you go crying on a couple threads.

[ElSuperGecko]

BirdsallSa wrote...
He's not whining. he's pointing out the truth. And you're one to talk about facts. The IT cult has no facts, it's just a bunch of conspiracy theory mumbo jumbo. So you self-entitled destroyers can keep on whining, because the tried and true Bioware fans, the synthesizers and the controllers, aren't going away just because you go crying on a couple threads.

Oh look, here's some more whine as well.  How very predictable.  Keep mewling, child.

[o Ventus]

Solaxe wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Another post complaining about a thread complaining about synthesis that doesn't add anything new. Congratz Solaxe.

Anti-complaining complainers are the biggest whiners I've seen on these forums.

Look how many anti-synthesis threads do we have compared to destroy hate threads. Control and Synthesis fans are mature enough to don't give a damn about other people's choices in a game.

Nice try smartass, maybe next time.

"Control and Synthesis fans"

Way to put yourself on a pedestal.